Christmas is not secular

[JacobEzra.]

25 december he rebirth of Mithras was celebrated as Sun Invictus. Thing is at that time many mithraists confused their religion with christianity cause of the similarities, and christians took advantage of it.

The specific reasonw hy christian choose to celebrate "jesus" brth in that time was to take advantage of the pre-existing celebration of the similar cult in that time.

Now I do agree with you last statement though, (not sure I would say "completely" different), many people elebrate JEsus´s birth in christmass, most people though are much more prone to remember giving presents to loved ones and such and kinda forget about Jesus or even purposefully ignore him (non-christians)

The way I see it, you got the christmass spirit being much greater than the christ-mass spirit, which is very good because then we have a holyday about sharing with family and generosity that is in no way limited to christians.

I know how the pagan celebration was pretty much replaced with Christmas, sanctified to become Christian, in which eased converts in. Thats why Samhein was replaced with All Souls Day and All Saints Day.

What I am getting at though, is that it is not pagan because it was the replacement. Just like Judaism was a replacement for the people who were at first pagan.

Now celebrations on Dec. 25 are not pagan, but Christianize to celebrate the birth of Christ.

I can agree its good that with Christmas being about spending time with family and exchanging gifts. There is nothing greater then seeing a childs face when he or she sees all the presents under the tree with the lights. Its a warm time. But at the same time, its important not to forget what the season is about. Celebrating Christs birth, in which its custom to feast.

 

[Me Myself]

I know how the pagan celebration was pretty much replaced with Christmas, sanctified to become Christian, in which eased converts in. Thats why Samhein was replaced with All Souls Day and All Saints Day.

What I am getting at though, is that it is not pagan because it was the replacement. Just like Judaism was a replacement for the people who were at first pagan.

Now celebrations on Dec. 25 are not pagan, but Christianize to celebrate the birth of Christ.

I can agree its good that with Christmas being about spending time with family and exchanging gifts. There is nothing greater then seeing a childs face when he or she sees all the presents under the tree with the lights. Its a warm time. But at the same time, its important not to forget what the season is about. Celebrating Christs birth, in which its custom to feast.

For christians, it is important for christians to remember what the season is about for them. For non christians it got nothing to do with jesus and that is the point.

Wheter it is pagan or not goes with perspective. As said, many traditions like the tree are pagan and have not even be christianized. There is no reason in christianity why you have a tree and put presents under it. You may call it pagan because it comes from pagan costumes, you may not want to call it that way because you are not having pagan thoughts or intentions

Ultimately what is important about christmass changes with the person , religion, or form of spirituality.

 

[Kathryn]

You know what blows my mind? People insisting that Christmas is either solely "pagan," or "secular," or "religious," or "commercialized," yada yada yada.

Christmas is a very unique experience for each person who celebrates it or shuns it. To some people, it's only one expression, to others it's a mixture of poignancy, nostalgia, reverence, decadence, you name it.

Some people celebrate the birth of Jesus during this time, as their ancestors have done for centuries. Others just enjoy the overall festivities of the season, which their ancestors the world over have done for centuries. Others, like me, enjoy all aspects of the season - not only am I celebrating the birth of Jesus, I am also enjoying the ancient links to ancestors which predate Christianity. It's all good.

The judgmentalism is amazing sometimes. I am also bemused that so many people so often assume that Christians aren't aware of some of the pre-Christianity symbols associated with Christianity. Hey, news flash - we know about Yuletide. We know about Saturnalia. We know about evergreens and gods born to mortals and winter solstice. So what? We're celebrating the birth of Jesus Christ. You go on and celebrate whatever you want to.

Quit burdening Christmas with your own emotional baggage. If you don't like it, don't celebrate it. If you don't like the way others celebrate it, mind your own business. Why would you want to dilute or attack the joy that so many people obviously feel about this season?

Deck the halls, and joy to the world!

 

[blackout]

lol only in modern times. Xmas started out as just an abbreviation for Christmas, with the mas meaning mass and the X as the first letter of the name Christ in Greek with it being a Chi. I mean, ever see the Chi-Rho?

Its funny how many atheist, and even Christians, believe this is something new done to take Christ out of CHristmas lol

Honey, I don't "believe" anything.
new old old new
it makes no difference to me.

I know what I like,
and what things mean TO ME.

I like X-mas best, in that 'X' is a variable "to the extreme degree" (mas).




(If you want to fill in that variable (X) with "Christ"... or Santa or Yule or Family dinner or Presents or Overtime pay...)

 

[JacobEzra.]

Honey, I don't "believe" anything.
new old old new
it makes no difference to me.

I know what I like,
and what things mean TO ME.

So you whatever you claim can be completely wrong, but as long as you like it, it is right. What an attitude to use in the world

 

[Agnostic75]

You know what blows my mind? People insisting that Christmas is either solely "pagan," or "secular," or "religious," or "commercialized," yada yada yada.

Christmas is a very unique experience for each person who celebrates it or shuns it. To some people, it's only one expression, to others it's a mixture of poignancy, nostalgia, reverence, decadence, you name it.

Some people celebrate the birth of Jesus during this time, as their ancestors have done for centuries. Others just enjoy the overall festivities of the season, which their ancestors the world over have done for centuries. Others, like me, enjoy all aspects of the season - not only am I celebrating the birth of Jesus, I am also enjoying the ancient links to ancestors which predate Christianity. It's all good.

The judgmentalism is amazing sometimes. I am also bemused that so many people so often assume that Christians aren't aware of some of the pre-Christianity symbols associated with Christianity. Hey, news flash - we know about Yuletide. We know about Saturnalia. We know about evergreens and gods born to mortals and winter solstice. So what? We're celebrating the birth of Jesus Christ. You go on and celebrate whatever you want to.

Quit burdening Christmas with your own emotional baggage. If you don't like it, don't celebrate it. If you don't like the way others celebrate it, mind your own business. Why would you want to dilute or attack the joy that so many people obviously feel about this season?

Deck the halls, and joy to the world!

I agree.

 

[blackout]

Secular is what the society is in America. So of course?

An old thing has become something new.

Kind of like a new understanding of an old testament.

ALL things are defined and re'defined by changing/new generations.

Words/ideas/things/definitions change people,
people make up societies,
changed people then change words/ideas/things/definitions
to reflect a new society.

People, societies, ideas, definitions, words, understandings, nuances,
are EVER CHANGING.

Life is a process.
No'thing is static.
Even if our own thinking is static,
it will not stop the world from changing around us.
All things are constantly becoming, and re'becoming.

Human beings ARE creators of word and world,
of meaning and personal significance.

Today's "World/Word" is tomorrow's history.

 

[blackout]

So you whatever you claim can be completely wrong, but as long as you like it, it is right. What an attitude to use in the world

I define my own reality.

So do you.

So does everyone.

 

[blackout]

So you whatever you claim can be completely wrong, but as long as you like it, it is right. What an attitude to use in the world

I claim only what things mean to me.
I claim only what resonates with me,
what I like.


In this context there is no "completely wrong".
In fact, there is no 'wrong' at all.

 

[blackout]

WHY should people be expected to define their own lives
by (on) other people's terms?

It's a ridiculous expectation.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Hmm, I guess the question is better asked, "Why do Christians celebrate a Pagan holiday and claim it for their own?".

Or, say why do 'so-called Christians' celebrate........

Romans [1v25] mentions turning the truth of God into a lie.......

Jesus believed the Scriptures are religious truth.- [John 17v17]
So, what is added or subtracted from Scripture is a religious lie.

 

[waitasec]

So, basically Christmas isn't secular. It's commercialized, yes, however the holiday is about Jesus, regardless of the "Yule" date etc.
This being the case, why do non-Christians celebrate Christmas? Is it hypocrisy?

well lets see here,
schools are closed, it's pretty much a federal holiday...it's pretty much ingrained into our culture
do you really think we have a choice in the matter...?

 

[Desert Snake]

well lets see here,
schools are closed, it's pretty much a federal holiday...it's pretty much ingrained into our culture
do you really think we have a choice in the matter...?

Hmm.. is there a reward for stating the obvious?:reindeer:

 

[Poisonshady313]

So, basically Christmas isn't secular. It's commercialized, yes, however the holiday is about Jesus, regardless of the "Yule" date etc.
This being the case, why do non-Christians celebrate Christmas? Is it hypocrisy?

I'm sure there's hypocrisy involved, but I don't believe it's on the part of the non-Christians who celebrate Christmas.

Christmas and its associated symbols change position depending on the argument the Christian talking about it is having.

Happy Holidays taking the Christ out of Christmas? Christmas is religious.
Christmas the only religious holiday considered a US federal holiday? Christmas is secular.

Apparently, Christmas is religious enough that Christmas trees in public places is a first amendment issue, but secular enough that non-Christian taxpayers should keep their mouths shut when they don't feel like they should be paying for the lights on public Christmas trees.

Let Christians sort out whether Christmas is religious or not before you go accusing non-Christians of hypocrisy.

 

[Desert Snake]

I'm sure there's hypocrisy involved, but I don't believe it's on the part of the non-Christians who celebrate Christmas.

Christmas and its associated symbols change position depending on the argument the Christian talking about it is having.

Happy Holidays taking the Christ out of Christmas? Christmas is religious.
Christmas the only religious holiday considered a US federal holiday? Christmas is secular.

Apparently, Christmas is religious enough that Christmas trees in public places is a first amendment issue, but secular enough that non-Christian taxpayers should keep their mouths shut when they don't feel like they should be paying for the lights on public Christmas trees.

Let Christians sort out whether Christmas is religious or not before you go accusing non-Christians of hypocrisy.

Wrong. I don't care whether people consider Christmas religious or not, much less if it would be hypocritical.

 

[Poisonshady313]

Wrong. I don't care whether people consider Christmas religious or not, much less if it would be hypocritical.

YOU are the one whose very first post in this thread says this:

"This being the case, why do non-Christians celebrate Christmas? Is it hypocrisy?"

 

[waitasec]

Hmm.. is there a reward for stating the obvious?:reindeer:

ya know...?


i'll accept frubals..

 

[Desert Snake]

YOU are the one whose very first post in this thread says this:

"This being the case, why do non-Christians celebrate Christmas? Is it hypocrisy?"

Yes, it is to ascertain peoples opinions on the subject, not to judge them by whether they consider a holiday "secular" or not.

 

[Desert Snake]

ya know...?


i'll accept frubals..

O.k.

 

[ChristineES]

I love Christmas! I love listening to Christmas music- both religious and secular. I like buying gifts for my kids and seeing how happy they are to get them! I like the smell of evergreen from the tree. When I was a child, we were not Christians, but we still celebrated Christmas and later, when we were Christians, we still celebrated it. The thing is, whether you are a Christian or not a Christian, you can still celebrate it. And it can bring out the giving part of people.