Christo-Paganism: What's the hap?

[Sundance]

Gnosticism, one of the original forms of Christianity, was a bit pagan-esque, wasn't it?

Yes, indeed, Father Heathen!

 

[Nada]

Heh... " True Christianity™ "

So which specific denomination holds that title? And which specific version of the bible?

Well,True Christianity,according to the holy scriptures,is what Jesus preached to the 1st century Christians.Christianity is the belief.God's promises through His Son Jesus Christ.

The version of it would be what is in the holy scriptures.This was written in Hebrew,Aramaic and Koine Greek.If one wants to know what was actually said, and how,they can go to these languages, and study the holy scriptures thoroughly.

What you get in these many bibles today are misconceptions based on mistranslations.So if one wants to know who is really serving God according to the holy scriptures,all you have to do is look around.Jesus explained that one can tell by the fruits one bears.If you see people carrying on like the worldly ones, and celebrating their traditional customs,using idols in worship, joining wars etc..,these are the ones who are not following God's commands,according to the holy scriptures,of course.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Christianity is mixed with paganism. Another what you call Christiondom. A relationship with Christ does not. Celebrating Christmas is mixed with paganism. Celebrating His birthday by "whatever means" is not. Easter is a pagan holiday. The celebration of his resurrection by whatever means (say just prayer nothing more) is not.

I think the "pagan religious haters" really get more involved with the outside stuff. Take out the christmas tree and easter bunny and celebrate Jesus birth and resurrection in prayer. Its the meaning not thr floots and whistles that count.

I found this.

"Christo-Pagan Information
What is this term, Christo-Pagan or Christian-Pagan? Isn't it a contradiction? Well, the truth is: your ancestors were probably Christo-Pagans. In Europe the historical Dual Faith period lasted from approximately 450 AD to 1100 AD, some say it began with Christianity itself. Indeed, Christianity has undeniable pagan roots. During the Dual Faith period our European ancestors were able to practice both their "pagan" ancestral religions and the "New Religion" coming up from Rome. In many ways we still practice both as Easter Eggs, Halloween and Christmas trees prove. Tolerance of this Dual Faith practice existed in various degrees, depending on one's country. France was the first to get pretty nasty toward anyone trying to hang onto both faiths, while Scandinavia held onto its paganism (more accurately called heathenism there) the longest of all."

Notice it says,"Christianity has undeniable pagan roots." and "During the Dual Faith period our European ancestors were able to practice both their "pagan" ancestral religions and the "New Religion" coming up from Rome. In many ways we still practice both as Easter Eggs, Halloween and Christmas trees prove."

Christo-Pagan Info & the Christian Goddess

So,according to this,they feel that Christianity has pagan roots.This is incorrect.True Christianity does not have pagan roots.There is Christendom,which is different.True Christianity is what theJesus preached to the first century Christians.Christendom is the man made beliefs and traditions of men that have spawned over the centuries due to many different understandings.It is true though that paganism crept into Christendom.You can see this by the giant crosses and idols they use in worship.Even the popes hat is the old fashioned Babylonian fish mouth style open top.The Obelisk that sits in St.Peters square represents the male penis of Osiris and is a sun worship tool.It was brought from Egypt.

Brought to Alexandria with another obelisk by Constantius II, and brought on its own from there to Rome in 357 to decorate the spina of the Circus Maximus.map Found in three pieces in 1587, restored approximately 4 m shorter by Pope Sixtus V, and erected near the Lateran Palace and basilica of San Giovanni in Laterano in 1588 in the place of the equestrian statue of Marcus Aurelius, which was moved to the Capitoline Hill.

List of obelisks in Rome - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

So, we can clearly see that the Vatican has a pagan symbol that is used by pagans in sun worship.Why would an organization that claims to represent God use such a thing? That is because it does not represent the true Christianity that Jesus Christ taught.

Also,Those who followed Christ never used idols in worship.They never celebrated X-mas(Jesus supposed B-day),Halloween and such things of that sort.These are worldly things and true Christians do not participate in this.

We can see that those who do not possess an accurate knowledge of holy scriptures can easily be driven to believe that Christianity does have pagan roots,because of what they see in the world,as Christianity.But, this is far from the truth.

 

[Sundance]

He wouldn't need it, but I can understand some Christians would not be too happy about his incorporating their faith into his and mixing it all up. It makes a mockery of the faith and implies that you can just do whatever you want with it.

Here's the hap, Rival my friend. I'm NO stranger to the Christian faith, it's woven into my DNA, practically. As an African-American, Christianity (or at least, our version thereof) is indeed part of my story (for better or for worse). Though, with our type of Christianity, there was a lot of mixing from our native traditions, which we don't have a problem with, really. Actually, the different types of Folk Christianity from around the world are syncretic...and there's no issue with it. That's the truth, so, my advice is accept it as it is. Blessed Be )0(

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Here's the hap, Rival my friend. I'm NO stranger to the Christian faith, it's woven into my DNA, practically. As an African-American, Christianity (or at least, our version thereof) is indeed part of our story. Though, with our type of Christianity, there was a lot of mixing from our native traditions, which we don't have a problem with, really. Actually, the different types of Folk Christianity from around the world are syncretic...and there's no issue with it. That's the truth, so, my advice is accept it as it is.

I think we got so indoctrinated to think "there is only One way to follow" that it takes the beauty out of religion or faith. Im african american too and our stories cant be separated from christianity. Thats my outside familys identity is Christ.

As for folk practices, many many cultures incorporate their family beliefs in their religion. Do what feels comfortable to you. I just advice to keep youe identify as a non christian and non pagan. Both are actually against each other. Historically, it wouldnt make sense (imo morally) to mix the two. Neopaganism maybe.

Also, folk traditions are in the pagan category. You dont have to worship other gods to practice paganism.

 

[Nada]

Christianity is mixed with paganism. Another what you call Christiondom. A relationship with Christ does not. Celebrating Christmas is mixed with paganism. Celebrating His birthday by "whatever means" is not. Easter is a pagan holiday. The celebration of his resurrection by whatever means (say just prayer nothing more) is not.

I think the "pagan religious haters" really get more involved with the outside stuff. Take out the christmas tree and easter bunny and celebrate Jesus birth and resurrection in prayer. Its the meaning not thr floots and whistles that count.

Nobody knows when Jesus was born, so how can one truly celebrate his birth? Catholicism and many others claim it is on December 25th,but this is never stated in the holy scriptures.It is a day chosen later, based on the holiday called Saturnalia.This is sun worship.Winter solstice.Eveything about it is pagan.Wreaths,yule logs,mistletoe,candles in the window etc..All pagan.
So, if the day ,and the things surrounding this day,are all of pagan descent,then that would make it a pagan holiday in disguise.
Reading up on Constantine and his councils will shed more light on the matter.

Easter has nothing at all to do with God or Jesus.It is all Babylonians style paganism.

READ THIS......


The Catholic Encyclopedia tells us: “A great many pagan customs, celebrating the return of spring, gravitated to Easter. The egg is the emblem of the germinating life of early spring. . . . The rabbit is a pagan symbol and has always been an emblem of fertility.”—(1913), Vol. V, p. 227.

In the book The Two Babylons, by Alexander Hislop, we read: “What means the term Easter itself? It is not a Christian name. It bears its Chaldean origin on its very forehead. Easter is nothing else than Astarte, one of the titles of Beltis, the queen of heaven, whose name, . . . as found by Layard on the Assyrian monuments, is Ishtar. . . . Such is the history of Easter. The popular observances that still attend the period of its celebration amply confirm the testimony of history as to its Babylonian character. The hot cross buns of Good Friday, and the dyed eggs of Pasch or Easter Sunday, figured in the Chaldean rites just as they do now.”—(New York, 1943), pp. 103, 107, 108; compare Jeremiah 7:18.

LIBRARY

 

[Rival]

I think we're talking past each other here.

I believe that whatever other folks do with Christianity is what they do with it, not what it actually IS.

Christianity should be judged on its scriptures, not what folks claiming to be Christian do with the faith.

Biblical Christianity is solidly against Paganism, so mixing it with Paganism seems like a contradiction.

But that's just my take.

 

[Nada]

I think we're talking past each other here.

I believe that whatever other folks do with Christianity is what they do with it, not what it actually IS.

Christianity should be judged on its scriptures, not what folks claiming to be Christian do with the faith.

Biblical Christianity is solidly against Paganism, so mixing it with Paganism seems like a contradiction.

But that's just my take.

Great comment!

 

[Sundance]

I think we're talking past each other here.

I believe that whatever other folks do with Christianity is what they do with it, not what it actually IS.

Christianity should be judged on its scriptures, not what folks claiming to be Christian do with the faith.

Biblical Christianity is solidly against Paganism, so mixing it with Paganism seems like a contradiction.

But that's just my take.

To whom was this post directed? Myself?

 

[Quintessence]

Biblical Christianity is solidly against Paganism, so mixing it with Paganism seems like a contradiction.

But that's just my take.

Well... yeah. You're right. It's why Christo-Paganism is neither Christianity nor Paganism, as has been said. As an example, Santería is effectively a form of Christo-Paganism. It's a syncretic religion that is neither Christianity nor Paganism, but it draws inspiration and practices from both Catholicism and indigenous African Paganisms. I don't get the impression that anybody is arguing syncretic religions like Santería are Christianity or Paganism proper. They aren't. It's something different.

 

[Nada]

Well... yeah. You're right. It's why Christo-Paganism is neither Christianity nor Paganism, as has been said. As an example, Santería is effectively a form of Christo-Paganism. It's a syncretic religion that is neither Christianity nor Paganism, but it draws inspiration and practices from both Catholicism and indigenous African Paganisms. I don't get the impression that anybody is arguing syncretic religions like Santería are Christianity or Paganism proper. They aren't. It's something different.

From what the holy scriptures explains,anything that is presented as Christianity,as what was preached by Jesus, to the 1st century Christians,is true Christianity.Untainted.Anything added, or taken away, from this teaching, is not true Christianity.
It matters not what you mix with it ,it will never be true Christianity.Paganism is just that,PaganTo mix these two together would make the outcome simply pagan.

For instance Santeria.That is straight up witchcraft.It takes parts of Catholicism practices,and mixes it up with African beliefs, and rituals.In the end it is nothing more than pagan.Crosses,idols,voodoo etc.. all pagan.

So, what they are mixing with these things is not true Christianity to begin with.That is my whole argument.You cannot take false Christian practices and call it Christianity.This false Christian belief system they have is mixed with Paganism.They are both from the same hand.
Both are the same because it does not stem from the holy scriptures.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Taking Catholicism out of the picture since you have to experience it to understand the difference between worshiping idols and worshiping God.

Nobody knows when Jesus was born, so how can one truly celebrate his birth?

It doesnt matter when. The Point is to give some type of gratitude that He 1. Died for you 2. Gave you life and 3. Gave you promise to your resurrection as He was resurrected.

That is like saying, "I will not say 'I love you' to my mother for her birthday because the 'History' of birthdays (not Her birthday) is pagan."

Why wouls you Not be grateful and show your gratitude for what jesus did for you? Why Not spend at least Some part of your day to de ote youself Only to Christ?

What is wrong with celebrating (by Whatever means) what Jesus did for you?

I dont understand how as a Jehovah Witness you do not see what you do is an act of devotion. THAT is what people do when they celebrate and witness. Differences are not wrong.

 

[Sundance]

From what the holy scriptures explains,anything that is presented as Christianity,as what was preached by Jesus, to the 1st century Christians,is true Christianity.Untainted.Anything added, or taken away, from this teaching, is not true Christianity.
It matters not what you mix with it ,it will never be true Christianity.Paganism is just that,PaganTo mix these two together would make the outcome simply pagan.

Christianity? Untainted? Ha! You're joking, right? Allow me, Bible Student if you will, to educate you on Christian history. First off, there were two separate strands of faith: one Jewish, the other Gentile. The original, Jewish strand was actually an early form of what is now known as "Messianic Judaism". (So if ANY strand is true or historically authentic, Messianic Judaism is the closest you're gonna get.) The Gentile strand, originating with non-Jews (Arabians, Greeks, Persians, Egyptians, Romans, etc.), had combined different aspects of the Jewish strand with their particular cultural practices. (The New Testament, especially, is a product of Judaism and Ancient Greek philosophy.) That strand eventually became what is today called "Christianity". So, essentially, what I'm saying is that without "Pagan" cultures, THERE IS NO CHRISTIANITY. To end this, I'll reiterate this, Christianity is NOT untainted, unless you're a Messianic Jew, but if not, which you're not, you've got no claim, homie, especially since Jehovah's Witnesses base their beliefs on an unorthodox interpretation of the New Testament to start with. Sorry.

 

[Nada]

Taking Catholicism out of the picture since you have to experience it to understand the difference between worshiping idols and worshiping God.



It doesnt matter when. The Point is to give some type of gratitude that He 1. Died for you 2. Gave you life and 3. Gave you promise to your resurrection as He was resurrected.

That is like saying, "I will not say 'I love you' to my mother for her birthday because the 'History' of birthdays (not Her birthday) is pagan."

Why wouls you Not be grateful and show your gratitude for what jesus did for you? Why Not spend at least Some part of your day to de ote youself Only to Christ?

What is wrong with celebrating (by Whatever means) what Jesus did for you?

I dont understand how as a Jehovah Witness you do not see what you do is an act of devotion. THAT is what people do when they celebrate and witness. Differences are not wrong.

First off Carlita,I am not Jehovahs Witness.Second,one does not celebrate Jesus Birthday because," Died for you 2. Gave you life and 3. Gave you promise to your resurrection as He was resurrected." Being grateful for this, and the supposed day of birth of Christ, are two totally different things.

The holy scriptures explains exactly how God feels about the matter.First I shall begin with the OT.
We can clearly see that it was only pagans who celebrated this vain day.

Genesis 40:20 "....Thus it came about on the third day, which was Pharaoh's birthday,"
22 but he hanged the chief baker, just as Joseph had interpreted to them.…

Here is one in the NT.

Mark 6:21 Finally the opportune time came. On his birthday Herod gave a banquet for his high officials and military commanders and the leading men of Galilee.


27 So he immediately sent an executioner with orders to bring John’s head. The man went, beheaded John in the prison,


Both of these men were pagan kings.Both had someone murdered.


So from these passages we can gather that only pagans were celebrating this pagan custom of birthday's.It never mentions anyone else ever celebrating a birthday in the holy scriptures,other than pagans.

Here is another scripture that makes it clear that birthdays are meaningless.

Ecclesiastes 7:1 A good name is better than fine perfume, and the day of death better than the day of birth.

So,making a name for ones self with a good reputation, and serving God,is what is important.At birth one has no established reputation.
"For those who have established a good name over the years, the day of death is indeed better in that respect than the day of birth"

WOL

So, birthdays are meaningless, really.It is a pagan custom.Never will you find any of God's servants doing this.Never will you find anyone mentioned doing this around Jesus either.No one ever celebrated his birthday and there is no record of this.Jesus was never born on december 25th.The HS never mentions this day.

 

[Nada]

Christianity? Untainted? Ha! You're joking, right? Allow me, Bible Student if you will, to educate you on Christian history. First off, there were two separate strands of faith: one Jewish, the other Gentile. The original, Jewish strand was actually an early form of what is now known as "Messianic Judaism". (So if ANY strand is true or historically authentic, Messianic Judaism is the closest you're gonna get.) The Gentile strand, originating with non-Jews (Arabians, Greeks, Persians, Egyptians, Romans, etc.), had combined different aspects of the Jewish strand with their particular cultural practices. (The New Testament, especially, is a product of Judaism and Ancient Greek philosophy.) That strand eventually became what is today called "Christianity". So, essentially, what I'm saying is that without "Pagan" cultures, THERE IS NO CHRISTIANITY. To end this, I'll reiterate this, Christianity is NOT untainted, unless you're a Messianic Jew, but even then....

Thanks for your opinion DJ _sXE.

 

[Sundance]

Thanks for your opinion DJ _sXE.

No problem, Bible Student! My apologies if I've insulted you.

 

[Nada]

No problem, Bible Student! My apologies if I've insulted you.

No,not at all DJ.All is cool.I do appreciate your time, and your effort in explaining your view.Thank you.

 

[Kirran]

I don't believe there is such a thing as the true form of a religion, be it derived from scripture or otherwise. Every person in the world interprets their religion differently, and practices it differently due to context.

Such a mixture as you're practicing, DJ, is very healthy I think. Healthy to blur these sharp boundaries some people perceive. Plus, it's honest, straight up.

I don't see why Jesus would object to people worshipping God, or gods, in their own ways. And I have immense respect for him.

I'd love to hear more about what your faith constitutes DJ.

 

[Nada]

I don't see why Jesus would object to people worshipping God, or gods, in their own ways. And I have immense respect for him.

I'd love to hear more about what your faith constitutes DJ.

Well, there is a simple answer as to why Jesus or God the Almighty would object to worshipping other gods.It is in the Ten Commandments. Exodus 20:3 "You shall have no other gods before me.

Jesus preached the Kingdom of the Almighty God,not gods.

Matthew 4:17 From then on Jesus began to preach, "Repent of your sins and turn to God, for the Kingdom of Heaven is near."

God the Almighty does not respect other gods.

Deuteronomy 32:39 "See now that I myself am he! There is no god besides me. I put to death and I bring to life, I have wounded and I will heal, and no one can deliver out of my hand.

So, from what we have gathered here in the holy scriptures,it seems that God is saying He is the one and only.

This is all according to the holy scriptures of the God of Israel Jehovah(Yahweh) of course.

 

[Kirran]

Well, there is a simple answer as to why Jesus or God the Almighty would object to worshipping other gods.It is in the Ten Commandments. Exodus 20:3 "You shall have no other gods before me.

Jesus preached the Kingdom of the Almighty God,not gods.

Matthew 4:17 From then on Jesus began to preach, "Repent of your sins and turn to God, for the Kingdom of Heaven is near."

God the Almighty does not respect other gods.

Deuteronomy 32:39 "See now that I myself am he! There is no god besides me. I put to death and I bring to life, I have wounded and I will heal, and no one can deliver out of my hand.

So, from what we have gathered here in the holy scriptures,it seems that God is saying He is the one and only.

This is all according to the holy scriptures of the God of Israel Jehovah(Yahweh) of course.

Fair enough. I respect your take on your scripture.

But, I don't accept the Bible's testimony myself. I believe Jesus was a mystic.

EDIT: I'll come back and address each quote from the Bible when I get the opportunity - probably tomorrow.