• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Circumcision should be banned

iholdit

Active Member
Not how statistics works. 1) I want a source for the ten-fold increase, and 2) that ten-fold increase could be going from 1 in a million to 1 in 100,000.

Also, it is to be expected that 95% of infants who get a urinary tract infection are uncircumcised, because the vast majority of infants are uncircumcised. Getting that circumcision isn't necessarily going to change whatever circumstance potentially leads to the infection.

I already posted the link at least 3 times in this thread. Go back and read post 451. Penguin posted a link which has 3 studies in it that show a 10 fold or more increase in urinary tract infection for uncircumcised males compared to circumcised males. Then when you are done reading pengiuns link read the link i posted.

95% of males are not uncircumcised. You might want to actually look up the statistics before you post stuff. If you have a source that says 95% of males are uncircumcised i would like to see it.

There were 2 studies done in the u.s. over 5 years and they kept track of every male infant admitted into the hospital for urinary tract infections. Of all the male infants admitted into the hospital for urinary tract infection 95% of them were uncircumcised.

Just so you understand 95% of male infants in the u.s. are not uncircumcised and i challenge you to find a legit source that says they are.
 
Last edited:

Maury83

Member
Also, it is to be expected that 95% of infants who get a urinary tract infection are uncircumcised, because the vast majority of infants are uncircumcised. Getting that circumcision isn't necessarily going to change whatever circumstance potentially leads to the infection.


I agree
 

PolyHedral

Superabacus Mystic
I already posted the link at least 3 times in this thread. Go back and read post 451. Penguin posted a link which has 3 studies in it that show a 10 fold or more increase in urinary tract infection for uncircumcised males compared to circumcised males. Then when you are done reading pengiuns link read the link i posted.
Post 451's link is mostly talking about HIV, but thanks anyway. Also, I found this:
That article said:
The cost of postneonatal circumcision was 10-fold the cost of neonatal circumcision
95% of males are not uncircumcised. You might want to actually look up the statistics before you post stuff. If you have a source that says 95% of males are uncircumcised i would like to see it.
It doesn't have to be as high as 95%. It only has to be larger than 50% for it to skew the statistics you quoted.

Just so you understand 95% of male infants in the u.s. are not uncircumcised and i challenge you to find a legit source that says they are.
60% of males across the world are uncircumcised.
 

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
I already posted the link at least 3 times in this thread. Go back and read post 451. Penguin posted a link which has 3 studies in it that show a 10 fold or more increase in urinary tract infection for uncircumcised males compared to circumcised males. Then when you are done reading pengiuns link read the link i posted.
You might want to read it again. It said:

- ritual circumcision at an early age is associated with a very large spike in UTI rates (e.g. in the study they mention, 48% - or nearly half - of the boys who were ritually circumcised at 8 days of age were found to have a UTI within the next few weeks, as opposed to very low rates for girls and uncircumcised boys). The infection rate drops off to normal levels within a month, indicating that it is the circumcision itself that's causing these increases in UTI rates. The researchers weren't sure whether this is caused by the timing or the method of circumcision.

- in the first year of life, uncircumcised boys have a somewhat higher incidence of UTI than circumcised boys. The report authors talk at length about the possible causes of this higher incidence and suggest strategies that may be effective at reducing it that don't involve circumcision.

- beyond this, the report doesn't present any clear indication of the difference in infection rates between circumcised and non-circumcised males.

When considering the relative risk of UTI vs. the relative risk of circumcision, researchers found that the least risky course of action was not to circumcise:

Thompson21 interpreted the published data by considering a hypothetical cohort of 2000 newborn male infants, half of whom were circumcised and half of whom were not. Given an incidence of UTI of 0.1% in the circumcised boys and of 1.0% in the uncircumcised ones during the first year of life, he calculated that there would be nine more UTIs for every 1000 newborns who were not circumcised. Thus, 99.9% of the circumcised infants would not experience a UTI, whereas 99.0% of the uncircumcised group would not have a UTI. Given a complication rate of 0.2%,91 Thompson estimated that, whereas 9 boys out of 1000 circumcised would benefit from circumcision, 12 would have moderately severe complications. At a complication rate of 4.0%, 41 boys would have moderately severe or worse complications. He concluded that the potential benefit to 9 in 1000 boys would be more than offset by the rate of moderately severe or worse complications, even if this rate was as low as 0.2%.

As noted elsewhere in the article, the actual rate of complications due to circumcision is estimated to be between 2% and 10% (though I recognize that not all of these would qualify as "moderately severe or worse").

95% of males are not uncircumcised. You might want to actually look up the statistics before you post stuff. If you have a source that says 95% of males are uncircumcised i would like to see it.

There were 2 studies done in the u.s. over 5 years and they kept track of every male infant admitted into the hospital for urinary tract infections. Of all the male infants admitted into the hospital for urinary tract infection 95% of them were uncircumcised.

Just so you know 95% of male infants in the u.s. are not uncircumcised and i challenge you to find a legit source that says they are.
The article I linked to is Canadian. Doctors here haven't done routine circumcision for decades, so the percentage of the population who is uncircumcised is much higher here than in the US.

Based on a quick Googling, it looks like rates vary a bit by province, but the national average is that about 9% of Canadian boys are circumcised, and the lowest rate I could find was in Nova Scotia, where only 1.1% of boys are circumcised.
 

astarath

Well-Known Member
I live in Ontario and myself and most of my friends are circumcised however that may just be indicative of Ontario in the 1980's
 

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
I live in Ontario and myself and most of my friends are circumcised however that may just be indicative of Ontario in the 1980's
I'm not circumcised, and I'm a product of Ontario of the 1970s. I tend not to pay a whole lot of attention to my friends' penises.

That was the era when, AFAIK, it varied doctor-by-doctor. Later in the decade, Health Canada put out statements saying that circumcision wasn't recommended as a routine practice. Since then, they've put out stronger statements stating that it's recommended that routine circumcision not be done.

Also, only a few provinces still fund circumcision through their provincial health insurance, because most now consider it a cosmetic procedure.
 

astarath

Well-Known Member
When you are involved in sports it happens. Ontario does still offer funding through provincial insurance as we looked into it when my children were born 5 years ago. I ended up having 4 girls over 6 years but every time we checked it was still covered. Finding a surgeon who performed circumcisions was the difficult part.
 

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
When you are involved in sports it happens. Ontario does still offer funding through provincial insurance as we looked into it when my children were born 5 years ago. I ended up having 4 girls over 6 years but every time we checked it was still covered. Finding a surgeon who performed circumcisions was the difficult part.
I'm not sure who you told you that circumcision was covered, but according to the Ministry of Health (who I think I'll trust, since they're the ones who actually pay out the claims), it hasn't been covered since at least October 1, 2005:

Circumcision is an insured service only when medically necessary. As such, circumcision performed for ritual, cultural, religious or cosmetic reasons at any age is not an insured service.
http://www.health.gov.on.ca/english/providers/program/ohip/bulletins/4000/bul4430.pdf
 

Primordial Annihilator

Well-Known Member
I already said no to not banning it.

Then if you would not ban the scarring of an infants skin in your own nation so that it resembles an Alligator's skin then you cannot possibly have the child's best interests at heart all you have is some idealistic belief in 'freedom'...I find that utterly revolting...but I guess you are entitled to your opinion. :shrug:
 

iholdit

Active Member
Post 451's link is mostly talking about HIV, but thanks anyway. Also, I found this:
It doesn't have to be as high as 95%. It only has to be larger than 50% for it to skew the statistics you quoted.

60% of males across the world are uncircumcised.

If you look at post 451 where penguin posted. It is the link from his post. If you scroll down to the part about urinary tract infections there are studies there. The link i posted also mentions urinary tract infections but it is mostly about hiv and stds.

The problem is the 95% studies were done in the late 70`s to early 80`s in the u.s. If you look up the stats for circumcision in the u.s. during those years you will see in the u.s. during those years about 80% or more of male infants were circumcised. This would slightly change the 95% percent but it would still be a very high percentage and much higher than a 50% increase in urinary tract infections for uncircumcised infant males.

Also if i remember correctly the studies in penguins link were also done in the u.s. but they were different years. The current percent of infants who are circumcised in the u.s. is currently above 60%. So most infant males are still circumcised in the u.s.
 

ninerbuff

godless wonder
Then if you would not ban the scarring of an infants skin in your own nation so that it resembles an Alligator's skin then you cannot possibly have the child's best interests at heart all you have is some idealistic belief in 'freedom'...I find that utterly revolting...but I guess you are entitled to your opinion. :shrug:
Dude learn about culture. I didn't say I it was done in America, it's done in Africa. They don't do it to infants, but to teens. It's painful, but not life threatening. And many males have been circumcised with no reprecussions. None have no memory of it happening as a child since they haven't experienced much after birth. :rolleyes:
I don't believe you need to circumcise a child, but if a parent chooses it, I doubt the emotional scarring for life.
 

HiddenDjinn

Well-Known Member
It's My Birthday!
I see a lot of what many consider reasons not to circumcise. I also see alleged harm done by circumcision. What I don't see is a modern Western nation banning it. Why, you wonder? It's simple: the 'reasons' supplied are apparently not considered credible by governments invested in protecting their populaces. In other words, when the issue of banning circumcision comes up, someone calls BS.
 

Primordial Annihilator

Well-Known Member
Dude learn about culture. I didn't say I it was done in America, it's done in Africa. They don't do it to infants, but to teens. It's painful, but not life threatening. And many males have been circumcised with no reprecussions. None have no memory of it happening as a child since they haven't experienced much after birth. :rolleyes:
I don't believe you need to circumcise a child, but if a parent chooses it, I doubt the emotional scarring for life.

I didnt say it was done in america...I said if it was done in your nation (by a minority group) would you ban it?

You said No.

You are then a threat to children...kind of.
 
Last edited:

TJ73

Active Member
This thread just made me think... My mother had no problem having my brother circumsized as an infant but always commented how barbaric and sexist it was to pierce the ears of infant girls,lol
 
Top