Circumcision should be banned

[Madhuri]

@ Caladan and Tarheeler

Not to mention the fact that no one would want to be circumcised as an adult!

I've heard that some people get it done as an adult. Very rare though.

 

[Bismillah]

I've heard that some people get it done as an adult. Very rare though.

Ahh I bet THOSE guys wished they were circumcised as children

 

[Madhuri]

Ahh I bet THOSE guys wished they were circumcised as children

Of course. But I feel sorry for guys having this kind of pressure to mutilate their genitals. It isn't the area on one's body that you would wish to be self-conscious of. Men already have issues with size, but circumcision as well? That's just sad.

 

[Caladan]

I agree. That's a factor a lot of people tend to overlook.

The vast majority of men in the US are circumcised. The fact that I and every man in my family is was a big factor in deciding to have my sons circumcised.

*NODS*. try and explain to your boy that the reason he is mocked by the other boys is because of your progressive and humane philosophy of life.
good luck with that. I can promise you that the young boy would hold a grudge against you because of that 'humanity'.

 

[Caladan]

Quick story.
A couple of years ago in one my uni sociology classes the topic of circumcision came up (can't remember how) and it was mentioned that most American guys seem to be circumcised these days. Everyone was shocked, because it is not the norm in Aus and it is assumed that this is just a Jewish tradition, and we all got very giggly. Then I realised there was an American exchange student in the room being very quiet and rosy cheeked. Poor guy.

LOL. too bad it wasn't me. I'd somehow turn it around to a theatrical show.

 

[Caladan]

@ Caladan and Tarheeler

Not to mention the fact that no one would want to be circumcised as an adult!

Haha! absolutely. it makes perfect sense to do the circumcision during infancy.

 

[Penumbra]

I think the argument that "everyone else does it" is about as weak as one can get.

Everyone else cuts an infant's genitals! How can we not? He'll feel so left out.

 

[Alex_G]

I think the argument that "everyone else does it" is about as weak as one can get.

Everyone else cuts an infant's genitals! How can we not? He'll feel so left out.

Agreed!

 

[Father Heathen]

Is there any evidence of lasting psychological damage to individuals who were circumcised during infancy?

 

[uu_sage]

I understand that a lot of parents circumcise their baby boys to prevent disease and for religious reasons. That's fine but I feel uncomfortable with the idea that they are making a decision on the child's behalf without giving him an option. I am of the opinion that when the kid reaches adolescence or adulthood they should have a voice in whether they have their foreskin removed. The recent medical consensus is that removal of foreskin is not medically necessary. The foreskin is supposed to add more sensation to a sexual experience.

 

[EverChanging]

I disagree. if you do not circumcise a baby while the rest of the boys and men in his culture/society are it is far crueller and alienating.

I've never experienced social alienation because my penis is natural. Usually it is only a matter of curiosity, if that. Still, it's a rather stupid argument. Should interracial or gay couples not have children because people are bigoted and cruel? Because people are likely to look down on the children? Sure, it's something to consider: I wouldn't do it in Mississippi, but it's not a reason to ban it outright. Everyone is going to get teased in life. If you're that worried about it, you shouldn't have children.

I have also noticed that cut men are very ignorant about the effectiveness of hygiene in keeping the penis clean, even an uncut one. No, there is not mold growing under my foreskin or even smegma. Sounds like nothing more than a cultural prejudice to me.

The only legitimate reasons I can think of for male circumcision are if one lives in a desert -- like the Egyptians and Jewish people did -- or if there is some medical reason; for instance, if it is too tight to retract.

Aesthetic preference alone is not a valid reason to cut off a part of someone's penis; in societies where men are typically not circumcised, which is most of them, I'm sure they would find the look of a circumcised penis very odd.

Circumcision tends to be a bad experience for men who request it later in life.

 

[McBell]

That's fine but I feel uncomfortable with the idea that they are making a decision on the child's behalf without giving him an option.

Really?
Do you hold the same thought for ALL decisions that effect the child;s life?
Like for example, not taking his insulin shots?

 

[uu_sage]

There's a difference between giving a person a option in things they have control over- (i.e. their religious tradition or lack thereof, when or who they make love to, who they marry, where to go to college) and doing things they don't have control over (taking medicines, undergoing medical treatments, ect.)

 

[McBell]

There's a difference between giving a person a option in things they have control over- (i.e. their religious tradition or lack thereof, when or who they make love to, who they marry, where to go to college) and doing things they don't have control over (taking medicines, undergoing medical treatments, ect.)

That's a bit dishonest, isn't it?
I mean, the only reason they do not have control is because someone else does.

 

[Rainbow Mage]

BTW, as someone who claims to be reviving or practicing ancient Egyptian traditions you might be interested to know, that just like the Jews, the ancient Egyptians circumcised their men as well.

Just because they did it then doesn't mean we should do it now. The Egyptian religion also was never static or ultra-dogmatic.

 

[Rainbow Mage]

Also just because it's a widespread American practice doesn't mean it's good. I know men who feel the way I do about circumcision. It's a terrible thing to do to a infant without knowledge.

 

[Rainbow Mage]

I've never experienced social alienation because my penis is natural. Usually it is only a matter of curiosity, if that. Still, it's a rather stupid argument. Should interracial or gay couples not have children because people are bigoted and cruel? Because people are likely to look down on the children? Sure, it's something to consider: I wouldn't do it in Mississippi, but it's not a reason to ban it outright. Everyone is going to get teased in life. If you're that worried about it, you shouldn't have children.

I have also noticed that cut men are very ignorant about the effectiveness of hygiene in keeping the penis clean, even an uncut one. No, there is not mold growing under my foreskin or even smegma. Sounds like nothing more than a cultural prejudice to me.

The only legitimate reasons I can think of for male circumcision are if one lives in a desert -- like the Egyptians and Jewish people did -- or if there is some medical reason; for instance, if it is too tight to retract.

Aesthetic preference alone is not a valid reason to cut off a part of someone's penis; in societies where men are typically not circumcised, which is most of them, I'm sure they would find the look of a circumcised penis very odd.

Circumcision tends to be a bad experience for men who request it later in life.

:applauds:

 

[Rakhel]

a quick story told to me by a rabbi.
A man can to him to convert to Judaism. He was not circumcised and was told during conversion classes that this was a requirement to becoming Jewish.
Well this man went ahead with the procedure without a second thought.
Later, he went back to the rabbi and told him he had changed his mind about being Jewish.
He said "If this is what you require now, I don't wanna know what you have in store for later!"

 

[Rainbow Mage]

a quick story told to me by a rabbi.
A man can to him to convert to Judaism. He was not circumcised and was told during conversion classes that this was a requirement to becoming Jewish.
Well this man went ahead with the procedure without a second thought.
Later, he went back to the rabbi and told him he had changed his mind about being Jewish.
He said "If this is what you require now, I don't wanna know what you have in store for later!"

This is kind of funny and ironic. Because truthfully, circumcision is the hardest step for becoming Jewish, LOL

 

[Levite]

I have to say that, having seen several pages now of back-and-forthing about hygiene, penile health, and transmission of sexually transmitted diseases, I don't understand what this is doing in the Religious Debates section.

Nobody yet has touched on the fact that Jews don't circumcise because of health concerns or hygiene. We do it as a mark of the covenant between the first of the Jews and God. As a properly circumcised Jewish man, I can tell you that not only am I not traumatized by being circumcised (in fact, I can't recall it being done, nor can anyone else I've ever met), but I find it very spiritually positive. I like that the mark of my participation in God's covenant is involved when I make love with my wife. I like that even in the most mundane moment possible-- going to take a leak-- I can see the mark and remember who and what I am, and what I am here for. There is something deeply satisfying about knowing that my participation in the covenant was sealed in blood, done on the eighth day, just as we were commanded. I cannot imagine not being circumcised, and I can't think how much I would resent my parents if they had not done it as is proper for us, and I had had to get it done as an adult.

I don't give a damn about hygiene and what the CDC says about transmission rates. What I do give a damn about is that this is the way of my people, the way we have been inducting our sons into the covenant with God for over 3000 years.

Since non-Jews are not obligated to circumcise their sons, I don't see why it should be a problem for them: if you don't like circumcision, don't have your son circumcised. If you do, do. But for Jews, this is our way. This is what we do. And it is important to us.

That, over and above anything else, is what matters insofar as circumcision and Judaism.

But that aside, I also have to say that I have been a guy among circumcised men all my life. I have never heard anyone complain that they wished it felt better when they had sex. Never. And I have never known anyone who had a proper circumcision that had resultant problems with sexual function.

I have also helped several uncircumcised non-Jews convert to Judaism, during the course of which, they got circumcised as adults. Although they all agreed that the experience was painful, each one said they wished it had been done when they were eight days old. And once recovered from the procedure, each one told me that sex felt just as good, they had no problems with it, and if anything, they liked being circumcised better, as they felt it was that much quicker and easier to clean the penis. And they all said that they had moments-- peeing, in the shower, getting dressed, in bed with the wife/significant other-- where they noticed their circumcision mark, and it brought them great spiritual satisfaction, and a sense of being very Jewish.

Once again, my feeling has to be: for Jews, it is required, and there is no reason to think it is at all harmful. For non-Jews, do what you like. But your personal dislike of it is no call to infringe upon the religious requirements and needs of others.