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Circumcision without consent. Is it wrong?

Is it wrong to circumcise a baby who cannot consent?

  • Yes, always.

    Votes: 28 54.9%
  • No

    Votes: 18 35.3%
  • Only Jewish people should be able to

    Votes: 4 7.8%
  • Idk yo

    Votes: 1 2.0%

  • Total voters
    51

dybmh

דניאל יוסף בן מאיר הירש
Of course the child does participate if it is allowed to participate by his religious community.
Why would you allow the bigots within your community to dictate who can and who can't participate?
Those are the rules; you're free to judge it however you want. I can only speak from my own POV. I would not feel comfortable participating in certain rituals if I wasn't circumcised. I'm grateful to my parents for choosing to have it done when I was an infant.
 

Koldo

Outstanding Member
Those are the rules; you're free to judge it however you want. I can only speak from my own POV. I would not feel comfortable participating in certain rituals if I wasn't circumcised. I'm grateful to my parents for choosing to have it done when I was an infant.

You can NOT assume the same for your children though.
 

ppp

Well-Known Member
It's not comparable to Jewish ritual circumcision where the procedure occurs as an infant and Father and Son have the same procedure done. Once you're castrated there's no children.
It is comparable. You just see circumcisions as special because it's your pet ritual. Other people's religions have other pet rituals. The utter hell that the Spartans put their children thru was also religion based. They are all comparable, because the thing being compared is not degree, but the religious disdain for consent of bodily autonomy.
 

dybmh

דניאל יוסף בן מאיר הירש
You are contradicting your self. In the first statement you claim the option is not there according to Jewish scripture, and in the second you are saying that it is there, but merely time consuming.
Sorry, that's not my intention. If a Jewish male is circumcised they have the option to participate or not. If they are not circumcised, there are certain rituals which are off limits. So, being circumcised as an infant gives the individual the most options.
The recovery time is a few days longer than a vasectomy.
The source I provided previously states that recovery is faster and easier as an infant. I'd be interested in reading your source for this if you choose to provide it.
 

dybmh

דניאל יוסף בן מאיר הירש
It is comparable. You just see circumcisions as special because it's your pet ritual. Other people's religions have other pet rituals. The utter hell that the Spartans put their children thru was also religion based. They are all comparable, because the thing being compared is not degree, but the religious disdain for consent of bodily autonomy.
Nonsense; there are very few procedures that can be compared to circumcision. It needs to be something where the adult went through it, confirms that there isn't a negative outcome for themself, then chooses to perform the same procedure on their children. That's not castration.
 

ppp

Well-Known Member
Sorry, that's not my intention. If a Jewish male is circumcised they have the option to participate or not. If they are not circumcised, there are certain rituals which are off limits. So, being circumcised as an infant gives the individual the most options.
So, what you are saying is that without a circumcision they won't have access to certain rituals until they can make a choice to join the faith. If one has to mutilate their body to participate in one's parent's culture, it sounds like a religious reformation is in order.
The source I provided previously states that recovery is faster and easier as an infant. I'd be interested in reading your source for this if you choose to provide it.
I am sure it is easier for an infant - or at least easier for the parents. I am sure that it hurts as much for the infant. But I was referring to as vasectomy vs circumcision recovery time in adults.
Circumcision (male) - Mayo Clinic.

Circumcision in men.
 

dybmh

דניאל יוסף בן מאיר הירש
By taking advantage of the fact your child is weaker than you and can't protect himself, yes.
But it won't take long before most of the world bans it, trust me.
Can you name a politician in your locality that wants to ban circumcision?
 

dybmh

דניאל יוסף בן מאיר הירש
So, what you are saying is that without a circumcision they won't have access to certain rituals until they can make a choice to join the faith.
No, if the mother is Jewish the child is considered Jewish regardless.
If one has to mutilate their body to participate in one's parent's culture, it sounds like a religious reformation is in order.
That's purely subjective. My wife prefers a circumcised penis, and I like mine just fine.
 

ppp

Well-Known Member
Can you name a politician in your locality that wants to ban circumcision?
10 years ago, I couldn't name a politician in my locale who wanted to support marriage equality In the 80's is was AIDS research and Apartheid that the politicians refused. In the 60's it was integration. Why would he need to name a politician who is adverse to banning circumcision right now?
 

dybmh

דניאל יוסף בן מאיר הירש
10 years ago, I couldn't name a politician in my locale who wanted to support marriage equality In the 80's is was AIDS research and Apartheid that the politicians refused. In the 60's it was integration. Why would he need to name a politician who is adverse to banning circumcision right now?
Because he said it wouldn't be long until most of the world bans circumcision. If that's true there should be at least 1 politician who includes the ban on their platform.
 

ppp

Well-Known Member
That's purely subjective. My wife prefers a circumcised penis, and I like mine just fine.
It has nothing to do with what you or your wife prefer. It's not your body. Why is consent and bodily autonomy so hard to for the religious to grasp when faced with mere tradition?
 

dybmh

דניאל יוסף בן מאיר הירש
It has nothing to do with what you or your wife prefer. It's not your body. Why is consent and bodily autonomy so hard to for the religious to grasp when faced with mere tradition?
If you look back, I was responding to your comment that the religion needed to be changed because it requires mutilation. I stand by my response. Your comment is purely subjective. My wife and I are happy with circumcision, you aren't. It's subjective.
 
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