It's a bit much to call unnecessary cosmetic surgery a "medical procedure."
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Circumcision without consent. Is it wrong?
- Thread starter an anarchist
- Start date
Deciding an infant's religion for him sure is "taking advantage of a minor" by how I understand the term.
ppp
Well-Known Member
The universes largest leather jacket.
Sheldon
Veteran Member
I'm fine with that, as long as they are adult foreskins.
dybmh
ויהי מבדיל בין מים למים
the examples all involve intent
dybmh
ויהי מבדיל בין מים למים
it's not deciding, it's giving the option
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
No, it was an attempt to change the argument that you had lost.
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
Oh, so the child has an option to say yes or no. How would you determine that?
dybmh
ויהי מבדיל בין מים למים
Yes, they both involve intent.
The red herring cuts both ways. The same can be said for castration. Castration isn't a valid example. One can't be castrated as an infant for religious reasons; then have children and decide to castrate them for religious reasons.
ppp
Well-Known Member
Can the child ever choose to have their foreskin back? If not, then you are taking away that option by your decision..
dybmh
ויהי מבדיל בין מים למים
Yes, I understand. But if there is a high liklihood that the child will grow up wanting the circumcision, then as an infant is the best time to perform the procedure.
The intent is to do what the child will want later in life.
dybmh
ויהי מבדיל בין מים למים
It's giving the option to be a religious Jew or not. The child simply doesn't participate.
ppp
Well-Known Member
Children have been castrated for religious reasons throughout history. Not only in several sects of Christianity, but Hinduism, Cybele and several others I cannot remember off the top of my head. So, no. It's not a red herring.
dybmh
ויהי מבדיל בין מים למים
It's not comparable to Jewish ritual circumcision where the procedure occurs as an infant and Father and Son have the same procedure done. Once you're castrated there's no children.
ppp
Well-Known Member
Then you acknowledge that your previous statement was false. It is deciding. It is taking away an option.
ppp
Well-Known Member
That is also a false statement. The option to be a religious Jew is still there with a foreskin.
dybmh
ויהי מבדיל בין מים למים
If you take a look at the chain of posts I was responding to a post claiming that circumcision is choosing the child's religion. My response was, it's not deciding [the religion], it's giving the option [to be religious].
dybmh
ויהי מבדיל בין מים למים
Not according to Jewish scripture. The adult would need to go through a much more difficult procedure and recovery. The best time to go through it is as an infant.
Koldo
Outstanding Member
Of course the child does participate if it is allowed to participate by his religious community.
Why would you allow the bigots within your community to dictate who can and who can't participate?
ppp
Well-Known Member
You are contradicting your self. In the first statement you claim the option is not there according to Jewish scripture, and in the second you are saying that it is there, but merely time consuming.
The recovery time is a few days longer than a vasectomy.