Circumcision without consent. Is it wrong?

[9-10ths_Penguin]

If you look back, I was responding to your comment that the religion needed to be changed because it requires mutilation. I stand by my response. Your comment is purely subjective. My wife and I are happy with circumcision, you aren't. It's subjective.

And, knowing that it's subjective, you had your son circumcised before you knew whether he'd be happy with it.

Why did you think it was right to deny your son the opportunity to make up his own mind on this issue?

I mean, even if he is - or will become - devoutly religious, his circumcision is a symbol of your faith, not his.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

To be a religious Jew

Which Jewish groups don't allow people to be circumcised and join as adults? Please be specific.

 

[dybmh]

Tribal scarification would be comparable, except at least with that, they generally wait until the kid is old enough to consent.

I wouldn't interfere with that.

And, knowing that it's subjective, you had your son circumcised before you knew whether he'd be happy with it.

Why did you think it was right to deny your son the opportunity to make up his own mind on this issue?

I mean, even if he is - or will become - devoutly religious, his circumcision is a symbol of your faith, not his.

Yes, it says to his future spouse that he came from a religious family.

 

[dybmh]

Which Jewish groups don't allow people to be circumcised and join as adults? Please be specific.

I honestly don't know; but if I wasn't circumcised I wouldn't feel comfortable participating until I had it done. It's more of a personal road block than something that is enforced in each group.

 

[ppp]

If you look back, I was responding to your comment that the religion needed to be changed because it requires mutilation. I stand by my response. Your comment is purely subjective. My wife and I are happy with circumcision, you aren't. It's subjective.

By that reasoning everything is purely subjective. From if you and your wife wanted to feed your baby nutritious food, to if you wanted to eat it for dinner as nutritious food.

 

[dybmh]

By that reasoning everything is purely subjective. From if you and your wife wanted to feed your baby nutritious food, to if you wanted to eat it for dinner as nutritious food.

No, the determination that Jewish ritual circumcision is wrong and needs to be changed is subjective. Eating children is nothing like it.

 

[dybmh]

I was referring to as vasectomy vs circumcision recovery time in adults.
Circumcision (male) - Mayo Clinic.

Circumcision in men.

Neither of these describe vasectomy vs circumcision in recovery time for adults.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Yes, it says to his future spouse that he came from a religious family.

Well, no. It wouldn't say that. Most circumcisions aren't done for religious reasons.

But your future daughter-in-law would have no sign other than your son's lack of a foreskin that you and your wife are religious?

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

I honestly don't know;

So then, as far as you know, circumcision doesn't give someone any more "options" than not being circumcised.

but if I wasn't circumcised I wouldn't feel comfortable participating until I had it done. It's more of a personal road block than something that is enforced in each group.

And adults can't get circumcised if this is something they consider important?

 

[dybmh]

So then, as far as you know, circumcision doesn't give someone any more "options" than not being circumcised.

It's more of a personal roadbloack; you're right about that

And adults can't get circumcised if this is something they consider important

It's easier if it's done as an infant.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

It's more of a personal roadbloack; you're right about that

What you're describing as a "roadblock" just sounds to me like someone who doesn't want to participate in Jewish religious life. Why shouldn't that choice be respected?

It's easier if it's done as an infant.

"Easier" in terms of lower risk of complications, maybe. Certainly not less painful, and the chances of lifelong psychological trauma are certainly much higher when circumcision is done as an infant even if the circumcision isn't remembered.

 

[ppp]

No, the determination that Jewish ritual circumcision is wrong and needs to be changed is subjective. Eating children is nothing like it.

Every belief that ignores consent and bodily autonomy is "like it".

 

[ppp]

Neither of these describe vasectomy vs circumcision in recovery time for adults.

Why would I look for a document comparing them? I already knew that the recovery time on of vasectomy was a week to 10 days. Why would I bothered to look that up?

More to the point is why didn't you?

 

[dybmh]

Why would I look for a document comparing them? I already knew that the recovery time on of vasectomy was a week to 10 days. Why would I bothered to look that up?

Full recovery according to the cites you provided is 4 weeks for circumcision as an adult. You should be bother to look it up if you bring it as an argument in a debate.

More to the point is why didn't you?

You made the claim, not me. And it seems to be false. See below:

Circumcision in men

The recovery time is a few days longer than a vasectomy.

No it's 4 weeks for circumcision and a week to 10 days for vasectomy.

 

[dybmh]

Every belief that ignores consent and bodily autonomy is "like it".

So removing a birthmark, or orthodontics, or any dental exam, or ...

Parents need to make choices for their children that ignores consent and autonomy.

 

[dybmh]

the chances of lifelong psychological trauma are certainly much higher when circumcision is done as an infant even if the circumcision isn't remembered.

Yes, I remember reading about this in the link you cited from Psychology Today. But I noticed that they spent most of the article talking about the effects of circumcision on boys and adolescents rather than infants.

 

[ppp]

Full recovery according to the cites you provided is 4 weeks for circumcision as an adult. You should be bother to look it up if you bring it as an argument in a debate.

Lol. That's until you can have sex or masturbate. You are living a functional life within 12 days. Sheesh.
If you are going to pick bits, at least pick legitimate ones.

 

[dybmh]

Lol. That's until you can have sex or masturbate. You are living a functional life within 12 days. Sheesh.
If you are going to pick bits, at least pick legitimate ones.

4 weeks vs. 12 days is a big difference.

 

[ppp]

So removing a birthmark, or orthodontics, or any dental exam, or ...

Parents need to make choices for their children that ignores consent and autonomy.

Removing a birthmark. Yes, I would wait for the child to weigh in. Same for an intersex child. Permanent orthodontics occur after the child has passed the age of reason.

Parents need to make choices for their children that ignores consent and autonomy.

For the child health, sure. Circumcisions are mere ornaments of initiation.

 

[ppp]

4 weeks vs. 12 days is a big difference.

You either didn't read my response for comprehension, or you ignored the contents.