Claims vs. Beliefs

[John53]

Do you mean this?
A new statement of truth made about something, usually when the statement has yet to be verified.

That would be 2

Edit to add: The other ones are talking about ownership of physical things like land.

 

[Trailblazer]

And for the third time I ask, what does the fact that you have a belief have to do with whether or not your statement is a claim? Show where in the definition it says that your belief is relevant to whether or not the statement is a claim.

The only thing that is relevant regarding whether or not a statement of my belief is a claim is whether or not I am making a claim that my belief is true.

I believe that my belief is true but I am not making a claim that my belief is true so a statement of my belief is not a claim.

 

[Trailblazer]

the definition for belief includes the definition of claim

A belief is mental acceptance of a claim as likely true.
A belief is trust in a claim.

But a belief is not a claim.

 

[John53]

The only thing that is relevant regarding whether or not a statement of my belief is a claim is whether or not I am making a claim that my belief is true.

I believe that my belief is true but I am not making a claim that my belief is true so a statement of my belief is not a claim.

Then why post them! I don't see what the problem is, it's not a crime to post a claim of your beliefs, everyone understands it's a belief. That's why they ask for evidence! That's the whole point of a discussion.

 

[Sheldon]

You want to both bully people who don't agree with you, as you did here, and play the victim, as again you did here. To what end?

I am not blaming anyone

I don't care but apparently a lot of atheists care.

Yes you did, right there. Where you claimed you didn't care, then blamed "a lot of atheists" for caring, but a lot of atheists didn't care enough to start a thread, laughably claiming they didn't care.

You can disagree all you want, just don't expect me to agree with you.

Straw man fallacy, where did I say anyone had to agree with me?

You might also want to ask yourself why it is so important for YOU to be right about ME and what you believe I am doing.

It isn't, you started this thread complaining that others would not agree with your ludicrous notion, that when you assert a belief publicly it is not a claim. If you can't see the hilarity of starting such a thread and then saying you don't care, and trying to claim that it's others who respond to your thread that do, then I can only suggest you take a spell, and have quiet think about how silly a claim that is.

 

[ppp]

The only thing that is relevant regarding whether or not a statement of my belief is a claim is whether or not I am making a claim that my belief is true.

Where does either definition say that?

 

[Sheldon]

A belief is mental acceptance of a claim as likely true.
A belief is trust in a claim.

You are wrong, but don't ask for evidence or argument, as apparently I did not just make a claim.

I was just stating what I believe.

 

[Trailblazer]

Then why post them! I don't see what the problem is, it's not a crime to post a claim of your beliefs, everyone understands it's a belief. That's why they ask for evidence! That's the whole point of a discussion.

I am not posting a claim of my beliefs because I am not claiming that my beliefs are true just because I believe my beliefs are true.

This is plain and simple English.

 

[Trailblazer]

Where does either definition say that?

Where does ANY definition say that a statement of a belief is a claim?
It is only a claim if I am claiming my belief is true. I am not claiming that so it is not a claim.

 

[Sheldon]

The only thing that is relevant regarding whether or not a statement of my belief is a claim is whether or not I am making a claim that my belief is true.

No it isn't.

claim

verb

1. state or assert that something is the case, typically without providing evidence or proof.

So a claim can be made with or without "proof" that it is true.

 

[dybmh]

A belief is mental acceptance of a claim as likely true.
A belief is trust in a claim.

But a belief is not a claim.

a belief includes a claim

 

[Trailblazer]

I believe you are wrong

It is not my definition so I am not wrong.

 

[Trailblazer]

state or assert that something is the case.

I never did that so I never made a claim.

 

[Sheldon]

I am not claiming that my beliefs are true

I believe my beliefs are true.

 

[Sheldon]

Where does ANY definition say that a statement of a belief is a claim?

statement
noun

1. a definite or clear expression of something in speech or writing.

belief
noun

1. an acceptance that something exists or is true, especially one without proof.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

It is only a claim if I am claiming my belief is true. I am not claiming that so it is not a claim.

You don't think your beliefs are true?

 

[Trailblazer]

 

[John53]

I am not posting a claim of my beliefs because I am not claiming that my beliefs are true just because I believe my beliefs are true.

This is plain and simple English.

Like everyone keeps saying once you make it public it's a claim. You're just trying to twist the meanings of words. No-one is saying that you're demanding we believe you but you have to expect people to question or disagree. If not DIR it.

 

[Trailblazer]

You don't think your beliefs are true?

I believe they are true but I do not claim they are true because I cannot prove they are true.
I do not claim things are true unless I can prove they are true.

Now do you understand?

 

[Trailblazer]

Like everyone keeps saying once you make it public it's a claim. You're just trying to twist the meanings of words.

I am not the one who is twisting the meaning of words.
It does not MATTER what people say "I am doing" because that does not make it true.
What I say is not a claim just because I post it on the forum. It is on only a claim if I am claiming it is true.
I am not claiming it is true because I cannot prove it is true.

No-one is saying that you're demanding we believe you but you have to expect people to question or disagree. If not DIR it.

People can question or disagree with anything they want to. Did you ever see me object to that?
No, the only thing I object to is when people accuse me of making a claim because I am not making a claim.

 

[John53]

I believe they are true but I do not claim they are true because I cannot prove they are true.
I do not claim things are true unless I can prove they are true.

Now do you understand?

OK, one more try. I can walk down the road believing I'm the best looking bloke in Karuah but if I stand at a corner and start telling people I'm the best looking bloke my belief is now a claim.