Claims vs. Beliefs

[Trailblazer]

A belief is the affirmation of a claim, that something is true. A claim is a statement or assertion that something is the case, typically (though not exclusively) without providing evidence or proof.

I never asserted that anything was the case, NEVER.
I only ever said I believe it is true.

 

[Sheldon]

I have made no claims about my beliefs, ever.

Yes you have, all beliefs stated or asserted to others are claims, again it is baffling why you can't grasp this simply axiom of language.

 

[Trailblazer]

Yes it is, you are embarrassing yourself when you deny this.

No it was clearly not a claim. You only embarrass yourself by claiming it is a claim.

 

[A Vestigial Mote]

I do say "I believe" most of the time but when the context makes it obvious it is what I believe I am not going to put that in front of every sentence.

How many people preface everything they write with "my opinion on the matter is?"

When it has anything to do with something I understand I literally cannot demonstrate the validity or truth of? I usually always use at least "I think..." I'm sure there are some exceptions... but believe me I have zero problem with justifying anything I have said either with or without "I think..." or "I believe..." at the start. I understand and completely expect people to come at me and ask that I defend my position. I make sure I am ready for it, in fact. I have never even thought once to write up a thread about how "not nice" it is for people to expect justification from others for beliefs stated, or opinions held, or facts put forth.

 

[Trailblazer]

Yes you have, all beliefs stated or asserted to others are claims,

No, no beliefs that I have shared with other are claims.

 

[John53]

But you are wrong. Nothing could be further from the truth. I could not care less if people agree. Where is this coming from? It is not coming fro anything I ever said so it must be coming from you.

No, I do not enjoy this. If I had ever known my OP was going to lead to this I would never have posted it, but hindsight is 20-20 and only God knows the future.

I should have known from past experience, but stupid me, I acted on impulse.

Then why! If it hurts you, just don't. I tend to avoid things that cause me pain, Is that just me?

I like discussing things with you but if it causes you distress I shall cease. Sometimes I'm old and grumpy, sometimes my sense of humour is interpreted differently to what I intended but I have no desire to cause you distress.

 

[Sheldon]

I never asserted that anything was the case, NEVER.
I only ever said I believe it is true.

Two more claims, and asserting to believe anything, is a claim it is true, and I would love to hear you explain the difference between stating something is true and that some is the case.

"As nouns the difference between claim and belief
is that claim is a demand of ownership made for something (eg claim ownership, claim victory) while belief is mental acceptance of a claim as truth regardless of supporting or contrary empirical evidence."

When a belief is expressed to others it is a claim.

Quod erat demonstrandum.

 

[Trailblazer]

Opinions are claims...honestly expressed or not.

Opinions are not claims, unless someone claims they are true.

opinion: a view or judgment formed about something, not necessarily based on fact or knowledge.
https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-1-d&q=opinion+meaning

 

[Trailblazer]

Haha... but I literally DO believe that you are making claims most of the time, and apparently don't even realize it.

As I said in the OP, I am making no claims.

 

[Trailblazer]

Semantics. Who cares!

I don't care but apparently a lot of atheists care.

 

[Sheldon]

No, no beliefs that I have shared with other are claims.

Of course they are, denying this is absurd, what baffles me is why you have so doggedly denied basic axioms of language. A belief is something we hold to be true, if we state it to others we are claiming it is true to others.

 

[Sheldon]

As I said in the OP, I am making no claims.

That's a claim...

 

[Trailblazer]

You have made two separate claims there:

1. That messengers should only be investigated if people want to know if they are really messengers of a god.
2. That nobody is obligated to investigate.

Those are not claims in any manner shape or form. They are suggestions, friendly advice.

Get a dictionary.

 

[A Vestigial Mote]

I don't care but apparently a lot of atheists care.

Yes... there is something to be cared about here. Certainly. Has nothing to do with atheism... but rather caring about the process of discourse and the meaning of mutually accepted terminology.

 

[Sheldon]

I don't care but apparently a lot of atheists care.

You are the one who felt the need to start a thread, so that is simply hilarious. You can't start a debate in a public debate forum, then blame others for not agreeing with you, especially when you are making ludicrous assertions that deny basic axioms of language.

You want to both bully people who don't agree with you, as you did here, and play the victim, as again you did here. To what end?

 

[Sheldon]

Those are not claims in any manner shape or form. They are suggestions, friendly advice.

Get a dictionary.

Try stamping your foot, see of that helps.

 

[Sheldon]

Yes... there is something to be cared about here. Certainly. Has nothing to do with atheism... but rather caring about the process of discourse and the meaning of mutually accepted terminology.

Exceptionally well put, if I may say so.

TB - that was a claim I made there, a claim that I believed something to be true, like a belief expressed publicly.

noun

1. an assertion that something is true.
   "he was dogged by the claim that he had CIA links"

 

[Trailblazer]

I don't know you better than you know yourself. I am calling your actions like I see them. Do you honestly think people incapable of deceiving themselves on all sorts of levels? I believe you are deceiving yourself in this very instance.

Of course people can deceive themselves and that means you can also deceive yourself because you are a person.

You don't know anything about me, you just believe you do.
What you believe about me is not a fact, it is only a personal opinion, based upon your own thoughts and feelings that you cannot separate from what I have actually written.

It is a well-known psychological fact that people who talk about others and point out their faults are the ones who have the problem. I did not start this but now I am done.

I am done wasting my time so I a not reading any more. I am a fool to have wasted as much time as I have, but at least I admit it because I know when I have made a mistake.

Let me know if you ever want to have a respectful discussion that is not about me.
Till then, Happy Trails.

 

[Trailblazer]

For example I made three separate claims there, can you see them?

Those were not claims. EVERYTHING is not a claim.

 

[Sheldon]

It is their personal opinion, not a claim or a belief.

An opinion that something is true is a belief, an opinion or belief expressed publicly is a claim.

belief
noun

1. an acceptance that something exists or is true, especially one without proof.

opinion
noun

1. a view or judgement formed about something, not necessarily based on fact or knowledge.

claim
verb

1. state or assert that something is the case, typically without providing evidence or proof.

noun
1. an assertion that something is true.

You are simply and spectacularly wrong here, and yes, that is a claim, it is also my opinion, and also a belief I hold, dear oh dear.