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Claims vs. Beliefs

Sorry, evolution does not work that way. What you propose could only occur if there was some intelligence driving the process. That we do not see it is evidence against ID.
Then you had the piltdown man fraud… fraud begets fraud. So when evolution is looked at critically it’s rejected and exposed.
This is how the theory of evolution has gone and still going, repackaged fraud. That’s what I’m seeing here.
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
Then you had the piltdown man fraud… fraud begets fraud. So when evolution is looked at critically it’s rejected and exposed.
This is how the theory of evolution has gone and still going, repackaged fraud. That’s what I’m seeing here.
Oh my! Are you totally unaware of the Christian frauds out there? By your poor reasoning Christianity has been debunked a thousandfold.

Are frauds against an idea evidence against that idea?
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
Were the photos doctored? Yes
No, they were claimed to be doctored. Real moths, but dead ones, were used to show how they look on a limb of a tree. That is not "doctoring".

Piltdown man a fraud? Yes

Yes. So what?

Why do you keep using arguments so poor that they can be refuted with a "So whatt"? Piltdown man was not taken very seriously outside of England. The theory of evolution never relied upon it. It is as if you are claiming that the countless false relics disprove Christianity.
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
Haekel’s fake drawings? Nice try brother at least admit to the fraud
What makes you think that they were a fraud. They weren't. There was only one or two photos that he duplicated when facing a deadline on his book. They were corrected in later editions and made no difference.

Also Haeckel was never clear evidence for evolution. His ideas were shown to be wrong by scientists, they were not shown to be fraudulent. There is a big difference.
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
@ElishaElijah what I do not understand is why do you keep claiming that Christianity is a fraud? Remember one must be consistent in one's reasoning and standards. By your standards you have just claimed that Christianity is a fraud a thousand times over.
 

Valjean

Veteran Member
Premium Member
An organism supposedly adapted and I would call it advanced from a simple form to a much more complex life form that we see today, but if you take the updated product of evolution you would think it would be able to adapt to any environment you put it in. But that’s not the case, a healthy person drowns and after 20 minutes without a lot of help will not revive and be dead.
The first organisms were much more fragile and in what environment, not a friendly one I can imagine, yet you are convinced this happened.
But organisms don't necessarily become more complex. Complexity is metabolically and socially costly. Organisms simplify whenever practical.

if you take the updated product of evolution you would think it would be able to adapt to any environment you put it in.
No, you would not. Organisms don't become 'better' overall, just better adapted to current conditions.
Conditions change, and so do the adaptations. What would be adaptive today might have been maladaptive yesterday, or will become maladaptive tomorrow.
The first organisms were much more fragile and in what environment, not a friendly one I can imagine, yet you are convinced this happened.
It's always been an evolutionary arms race. Any early organisms that were fragile of poorly adapted died out.
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
Do you have any evidence that I am a Christian? If so what evidence do you have?
You have continually claimed to be one and that statement of yours was reasonable. There is nothing wrong with being a Christian. The problem is when one at best misinterprets the Bible. Refuting the myths of Genesis. does not refute Christianity. It only refutes mistaken versions of Christianity.

And you never answered as to why you are not a Flat Earther. If you are going to take the Bible literally you really should believe in a Flat Earth as well. There are countless verses that do not work on a spherical Earth, but do work for a Flat Earth.
 
You have continually claimed to be one and that statement of yours was reasonable. There is nothing wrong with being a Christian. The problem is when one at best misinterprets the Bible. Refuting the myths of Genesis. does not refute Christianity. It only refutes mistaken versions of Christianity.

And you never answered as to why you are not a Flat Earther. If you are going to take the Bible literally you really should believe in a Flat Earth as well. There are countless verses that do not work on a spherical Earth, but do work for a Flat Earth.
There is a good book on biblical hermeneutics by Kevin Connor. The purpose of biblical hermeneutics is to use certain principles to find out what the writer of the scriptures meant by what they wrote. Some things are literal, some things were how they appear for example we say today sunrise and sunset. Would a scientist say sunrise or sunset ? Or would he say good morning the earth just made another rotation? Some things are parables, some allegory. The first thing to understanding is being filled with the Spirit of God.
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
There is a good book on biblical hermeneutics by Kevin Connor. The purpose of biblical hermeneutics is to use certain principles to find out what the writer of the scriptures meant by what they wrote. Some things are literal, some things were how they appear for example we say today sunrise and sunset. Would a scientist say sunrise or sunset ? Or would he say good morning the earth just made another rotation? Some things are parables, some allegory. The first thing to understanding is being filled with the Spirit of God.
And what if the base of that hermeneutics is false or irrational? Too many practitioners of hermeneutics assume that the God that they want to believe in is what the Bible was about.
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
Why were the fake embryo pictures in classroom
textbooks? Are they still there?
There are no fake embryo pictures in textbooks. What makes you think that was the case. Once again, Haeckel was pressed for time when the first edition of his book came out. In a couple of the illustrations at most he did not complete brand new illustrations for different species. And one more time, that was corrected in later editions. He did not rely on fraud at all.

They have those pictures in the books only because that is a small part of the history of evolution. His concept was proven wrong. But not terribly wrong. evo-devo replaced it. It is so close that lay people often mistake one for the other. That concept is well supported. And if you see a photograph of an embryo and not an illustration that is what you are seeing.

In the sciences even mistakes can be helpful, because when they are shown to be wrong there is often a bit of a correct idea in them.
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
Have a good one, thanks for all the comments and your perspectives, greatly appreciated.
Why did you abuse the funny rating? You do know that is against the rules.. It is rather sad that you do not understand what you are arguing against at all and you cannot even defend your own beliefs. Kevin Conner (note spelling) appears to be well respected only because he was good at saying what others wanted him to say. I can find his method clearly outlined on the internet. I am interest in seeing it so that I can understand why you believe that you can interpret the Bible better than scholars can.
 
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