CNN documentary

[Vinayaka]

I imagine you wouldn't get a good view of him from just this debacle!

First came across him when he did a looong interview on The Young Turks ages ago.

Much of the older stuff doesn't exactly portray exactly him in the best of lights either.

 

[Fireside_Hindu]

Much of the older stuff doesn't exactly portray exactly him in the best of lights either.

My impression of him is based on a view interviews I've seen with him. I appreciate his ability to debate and defend his own faith (and to some extent other religions) against anti-religious individuals or groups but I have never read his books.

 

[Vinayaka]

My impression of him is based on a view interviews I've seen with him. I appreciate his ability to debate and defend his own faith (and to some extent other religions) against anti-religious individuals or groups but I have never read his books.

Thanks. Here's an atheist's take:

Reza Aslan is Wrong About Islam and This is Why

 

[Kirran]

My impression of him is based on a view interviews I've seen with him. I appreciate his ability to debate and defend his own faith (and to some extent other religions) against anti-religious individuals or groups but I have never read his books.

I quite like his universalistic take, as well

 

[Vinayaka]

I appreciate his ability to debate and defend his own faith

Not being much of a debater, this can be a warning sign to me to study closely. The ability to make good speeches, or debate, is a great skill for politicians, and is a wonderful way to fool the masses. Still, it is a step up from merely being good looking.

 

[Kirran]

Not being much of a debater, this can be a warning sign to me to study closely. The ability to make good speeches, or debate, is a great skill for politicians, and is a wonderful way to fool the masses. Still, it is a step up from merely being good looking.

So you do think he's good-looking

 

[Vinayaka]

Here's a sampler. See for yourself.

 

[Vinayaka]

So you do think he's good-looking

That was a reference to how many votes Trudeau got here.

 

[Kirran]

Thanks for the sample. I agree that it's a rather inaccurate portrayal of Hinduism in its brief opening part, and it's at the same time trying to make Aghoris seem much bigger than they are, and their beliefs as more bizarre than they really are (r.e. God is within you etc). Also, while a common issue, it's using caste as varna, when jati is more prominent.

 

[Fireside_Hindu]

Not being much of a debater, this can be a warning sign to me to study closely. The ability to make good speeches, or debate, is a great skill for politicians, and is a wonderful way to fool the masses. Still, it is a step up from merely being good looking.

Perhaps. I always appreciate level headed debate over screaming heads. I've never heard him speak on non-abrahamic religions so like you mentioned earlier I don't know how much unconscious bias he's walking into Hinduism with.

 

[Vinayaka]

Perhaps. I always appreciate level headed debate over screaming heads. I've never heard him speak on non-abrahamic religions so like you mentioned earlier I don't know how much unconscious bias he's walking into Hinduism with.

I don't either but as we both know, the subconcious (unconscious) is always there, whetehr we like it or not. Certainly the little clip I found of the program showed some, like an overemphasis on caste, which comes from hearing about it ALL the time.

 

[Fireside_Hindu]

Here's a sampler. See for yourself.

Well, based on that small snippet, my initial reaction is actually a bit on the positive side. His narration does make the point that this is small segment within Hinduism that most Hindus have difficulty with. But again - it's a 2 minute trailer. How his emphasis on Aghoris plays out in the full episode will really be what flavors the impression left in people's minds.

 

[Vinayaka]

Of course I was looking to be critical, based on my little subconscious on it, over the last 3 days. The first thing I noticed was him stressing on the word 'obsession' in 'Hindus are OBSESSED with purity rules.' Well, sorry there buddy, but that hasn't been my experience unless we have different meanings of the word 'obsessed'. lol

 

[Fireside_Hindu]

I don't either but as we both know, the subconcious (unconscious) is always there, whetehr we like it or not. Certainly the little clip I found of the program showed some, like an overemphasis on caste, which comes from hearing about it ALL the time.

Caste is one of those hot button issues that stays hot button because equal human dignity and rights are important to most people. I understand why it comes up a lot. I don't think we cure anyone's obsession with it by pretending like it isn't important from a historical and human rights standpoint. I would personally love to see a full length, high budget documentary that deals exclusively with caste (produced by Hindus) to address it head on so that we can start putting it to rest in people's minds. Let's really dig our teeth into it, examine the history, the scripture, the way in which Mugal and British invasion changed it etc.

What I see happening all too often is that because Hindus know how uncomfortable and controversial the caste system is, they either refuse to address it or claim that it's not important. So the controversy persists and people continue to get their information for other non-hindus who are all too happy to sensationalize and misrepresent it.

 

[Fireside_Hindu]

Of course I was looking to be critical, based on my little subconscious on it, over the last 3 days. The first thing I noticed was him stressing on the word 'obsession' in 'Hindus are OBSESSED with purity rules.' Well, sorry there buddy, but that hasn't been my experience unless we have different meanings of the word 'obsessed'. lol

Obsession is a strong word. I think that's a clear example of trying to ...pepper his monologue with exciting and emotive language in order to sensationalize.

I will concede that if what HAF says is correct about CNN and Aslan doing almost zero research and consultation with Hindu scholars, that is problematic. I would never speak about Islam without making sure I had consultants from those religions on hand to keep me straight.

 

[Fireside_Hindu]

A facebook friend linked me to the full documentary on Youtube. Apparently it was recently uploaded. Have not watched it yet, but plan to tomorrow after Holi festivities.

 

[Aupmanyav]

How would you have liked him to have done an episode on Aghoris differently?

It is a full-fledged part of Hndu Philosophy. Aghora means what is not extreme. It should have been discussed in this way:

"Excluding the Kapalikas and the Kalamukhas, about whom we know very little except the traditional imputations against their rituals and non-Vedic conduct, we have the text of the Pasupata system and the Saiva philosophy as described in the Saiva Agamas. We have also the Pasupata-sastra as described in the Vamya samhita, the Saiva philosophy of Srikantha as elaborated by Appaya Dlksita, and the Saiva philosophy as expounded by King Bhoja of Dhara in his Tattva-prakasa as explained by Srikumara and Aghora-sivacarya. We have also the Vira-£aivism which evolved at a later date and was explained in a commentary on Brahma-sutra by Sripati Pandita who is generally placed in the fourteenth century. Srlpati Pandita was posterior to the Pasupatas and Ramanuja, and also to Ekorama and the five acaryas of the Vira-saiva religion.

Sripati was also posterior to Madhavacarya. But it is curious that Madhava seems to know nothing either of Virasaivism or of Sripati Pandita. He was of course posterior to Basava of the twelfth century, who is generally regarded as being the founder of Vira-saivism. As Hayavadana Rao points out, Sripati was posterior to Srikantha, who wrote a bhasya on the Brahma-sutra. We have treated in a separate section the philosophy of Srikantha. Srikantha lived somewhere in the eleventh century and may have been a junior contemporary of Ramanuja. Srikantha in his treatment of Brahma-sutra ill. 3. 27-30, criticises the views of Ramanuja and Nimbarka. Hayavadana Rao thinks on inscriptional grounds that Srikantha was living in a.d. 1122."
From "A History of Hindu Philosophy", Page 141, Part 5 by Prof. Surendra Nath DasGupta available at A History of Indian Philosophy by Surendranath Dasgupta [All 5 Volumes Combined, 2517 Pages, High Quality, with Complete Outlines] : Surendranath Dasgupta : Free Download & Streaming : Internet Archive

Surendranath Dasgupta - Wikipedia

Welcome-A.B.K.A.S.E.S.S

These charlatans who do their show for a few hundred rupees are not Aghoris.

Not really. Most of us would consider them outside of any traditional Hinduism.

They have their own tradition and philosophy. How does it matter if some one disagrees with them?

Can the Aghori interpretation - unusual and horrible as it is - be defended as being a plausible interpretation of Hinduism?

No, it is not horrible as you think. They have their reasoning. Visit the link above and see what they are saying.

 

[Shantanu]

Do these Aghoris have a plausible stance on Hinduism?

I ask this in the vein of saying that ISIS has a plausible stance on Islam.

They certainly do represent a strand of view within Hinduism, namely that there are no hard and fast rules on personal conduct and that the path of living is whatever comes naturally within ones path. Survival is of the greatest importance in this regard. Food is food, hygiene is also self-determined. Their dignity comes from personal outlook on what is good and what is bad as they seek knowledge. They worship the Divine. That is what Hinduism represents. They give up the material things that others follow and spend their lives on the barest minimum needs. What more do you know about the Aghoris?

 

[Kirran]

Watching the episode, the caste system is being painted as something that's like universally just a given, poor wording.

 

[Shantanu]

Watching the episode, the caste system is being painted as something that's like universally just a given, poor wording.

One needs be careful when discussing the caste system without consideration of how it arose and its benefits: The varna system of social organisation of the Hindus.