COL 2:16 And The Sabbath - Are You Being Told The Truth?

[Crosstian]

G-d's Law, His Torah, is not just ten commandments. Why is this difficult for you?

Judaism 101: A List of the 613 Mitzvot (Commandments)​

... continued ...

[6.] The '613' number is for some calculated on Gematraic principles, with differing reasons or starting points by differing Rabbis, and for this reason, some disagree that it should be said number, for instance:

"... I disagree there are 613 Mitzvot because the explanation for the number is based on gematria, however the gematria of the Torah is not Standard. Instead of the letters Shin and Tav having the value of 300 and 400, they are valued at 3 and 4, and using this most secret gematria the number of Mitzvot would be 217 (31 × 7). However 613 is discovered with this gematria in the opening verses of Genesis so it is still a very significant gematria number.

We first get the idea of 613 mitzvot from Rabbi Simlai:

From Makkot 24a:

"דרש רבי שמלאי שש מאות ושלש עשרה מצות נאמרו לו למשה שלש מאות וששים וחמש לאוין כמנין ימות החמה ומאתים וארבעים ושמונה עשה כנגד איבריו של אדם אמר רב המנונא מאי קרא (דברים לג, ד) תורה צוה לנו משה מורשה תורה בגימטריא שית מאה וחד סרי הוי אנכי ולא יהיה לך מפי הגבורה שמענום

§ Rabbi Simlai taught: There were 613 mitzvot stated to Moses in the Torah, consisting of 365 prohibitions corresponding to the number of days in the solar year, and 248 positive mitzvot corresponding to the number of a person’s limbs. Rav Hamnuna said: What is the verse that alludes to this? It is written: “Moses commanded to us the Torah, an inheritance of the congregation of Jacob” (Deuteronomy 34:4). The word Torah, in terms of its numerical value [gimatriyya], is 611, the number of mitzvot that were received and taught by Moses our teacher. In addition, there are two mitzvot: “I am the Lord your God” and: “You shall have no other gods” (Exodus 20:2, 3), the first two of the Ten Commandments, that we heard from the mouth of the Almighty, for a total of 613."[1]

However the word תורה is valued at 215; Tav:4 + Vav:6 + Resh:200 + Heh:5 = 215. So if we add the two for the first two commandments the people heard at Sinai: 215 + 2 = 217.

Regarding the number of צִיצִית which is supposed to equal the number of Mitzvot:

Rashi "וזכרתם את כל מצות ה'. שֶׁמִּנְיַן גִּימַטְרִיָּא שֶׁל צִיצִית שֵׁשׁ מֵאוֹת, וּשְׁמוֹנָה חוּטִין וַחֲמִשָּׁה קְשָׁרִים הֲרֵי תרי"ג (תנחומא): You will remember all of Adonoy’s commandments. As the numerical value of צִיצִית is 600, and the eight threads and five knots equal 613."[2]

צִיצִית = 204

plus 8 threads and 5 knots = 217.

You can check the sums on this gematria calculator which uses the correct gematria of the Torah; Shematria

Vilna Gaon in Orot Hagra also disagreed that 613 was the correct number, saying;

It definitely cannot be said that only 613, and no more, come under the category of mitzvot. For if so, there are only three mitzvot from Berei**** until Bo, and many portions of the Torah contain no mitzvot. That is not plausible… The mitzvot are thus multitudinous beyond enumeration… ..." - Are there really 613 Mitzvot? : Gematria

[7.] Moses specifically said by inspiration of God, that what God spoke and wrote at Mt. Sinai with His own voice and finger from Heaven were "the ten commandments". God came down upon Mt. Sinai in awesome majesty, with the whole mountain covered in the fire of the presence of the Holy Angels of God, so that none but those whom God called up were able to come near.

Exo_34:28 And he was there with the LORD forty days and forty nights; he did neither eat bread, nor drink water. And he wrote upon the tables the words of the covenant, the ten commandments.

Deu_4:13 And he declared unto you his covenant, which he commanded you to perform, even ten commandments; and he wrote them upon two tables of stone.

Deu_10:4 And he wrote on the tables, according to the first writing, the ten commandments, which the LORD spake unto you in the mount out of the midst of the fire in the day of the assembly: and the LORD gave them unto me.

In each place the Hebrew word "[1697] dabar" is used, as the Ten Commandments are not merely laws or commands, but individual promises of God each that He would perform in those who would walk in His covenant. More on that later as needful.

[8.] The "ten commandments" that God spake in Person to all the people without the mediator Moses, were a complete Law, nothing further being added unto them, except later as to be written in a scroll/book through a mediator (Moses):

Deu_5:22 These words the LORD spake unto all your assembly in the mount out of the midst of the fire, of the cloud, and of the thick darkness, with a great voice: and he added no more. And he wrote them in two tables of stone, and delivered them unto me.

[9.] The "ten commandments" were written by God's own finger originally on sapphire stone and which second set was placed into the "pattern" Ark of the Covenant in the earthly tabernacle (Exodus 25:16,21).

[10.] The other precepts, statutes, laws, commands, ordinances, etc were all given by God through the mediator Moses, to be written by Moses' hand, and placed not inside of the Ark, but to be placed in the side of the Ark:

Deu_31:26 Take this book of the law, and put it in the side of the ark of the covenant of the LORD your God, that it may be there for a witness against thee.

So, while important, God makes distinction, by several means. The many other things which God gave fall under the umbrella of the Ten Commandments:

Psa_119:96 I have seen an end of all perfection: but thy commandment is exceeding broad.

and as such '613' probably wouldn't even come close to the depth of God's Ten Commandments, which are the expansion of His perfect character of Love, which itself is expressed in the greatest (Deuteronomy 6:5) and second greatest commandments (Leviticus 19:17-18) (both of whose contexts are the Ten Commandments, see Deut. 5, etc).

[11.] The '613' enumeration only considers material within the texts of the Torah (Gen-Deut), and not any other material from the Nevi'im or Ketuvim, as if God somehow stopped talking and giving commands through men, priests or prophets or kings, see Isaiah 8:20 (Law and Testimony)

[12.] Even from a basic search of scripture, the Torah itself makes differences between words:

Gen 26:5 KJB Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.

Gen 26:5 KJB Str. BecauseH6118 thatH834 AbrahamH85 obeyedH8085 my voice,H6963 and keptH8104 my charge,H4931 my commandments,H4687 my statutes,H2708 and my laws.H8451

Gen 26:5 HOT עקב אשׁר־שׁמע אברהם בקלי וישׁמר משׁמרתי מצותי חקותי ותורתי׃

Gen 26:5 HOT Str. עקבH6118 אשׁרH834 שׁמעH8085 אברהםH85 בקליH6963 וישׁמרH8104 משׁמרתיH4931 מצותיH4687 חקותיH2708 ותורתי׃H8451 (apologies for how this posts, not much can be done about that, I used highligher to mark the beginning and ending, so while the sentence reads left to right, each individual word correctly reads right to left)

Gen 26:5 HOT Translit. ëqev ásher-shäma av'rähäm B'qoliy waYish'mor mish'mar'Tiy mitz'wotay chuQôtay w'tôrotäy

Notice the distinction made between H4687 (mitzvot) and H8451 (torah), which is again found in Exodus 16:28,

Exo 16:28 And the LORD said unto Moses, How long refuse ye to keep my commandments and my laws?

This should suffice for now.

 

[3rdAngel]

Saw your thread.
What is there?
That Israel is God's people?
You should read the entire Romans 9
particularly the last verses and find out what you missed

Example:

Romans 9:24-28 Good News Translation (GNT)
For we are the people he called, not only from among the Jews but also from among the Gentiles. This is what he says in the book of Hosea:

“The people who were not mine
I will call ‘My People.’
The nation that I did not love
I will call ‘My Beloved.’
And in the very place where they were told, ‘You are not my people,’
there they will be called the children of the living God.”


And Isaiah exclaims about Israel: “Even if the people of Israel are as many as the grains of sand by the sea, yet only a few of them will be saved; for the Lord will quickly settle his full account with the world.”

What then is in Romans 9?

The Gentiles [the Romans, Ephesians, Corinthians etc] who became Church of Christ members are now called the children of the living God - they are not Israelites, nor became one nor automatically considered as such.

With regards to Israelites - though they are many, only a few of them will be saved.

So there is no big fuzz about the Israelites, a lot of them will be doomed anyway.

This will be my last post to you here on who God's ISRAEL are in the new covenant. There is a whole new thread in relation to this topic made that shows in detail why you are in error scripture by scripture in ...

God's Israel in the new testament who is it *Romans 9:6-8 linked

If you disagree with the scriptures in the linked OP than prove your claims and adress the OP there scripture by scripture. If you cannot my friend why not receive God's blessing and believe and follow God's Word? Your comments here only show you did not read all the OP or consider the scriptures provided and sent you only in love and as a help to you.

This topic is in Colossians 2:16-17 the real truth did you have anything to share?

Ignoring God's Word dear friend does not make it dissappear. The same as making your text bigger or adding funny pictures does not make anything you say true. Only God's Word is true and we should believe and follow it over the teachings and traditions of men that break the commandments of God.

JESUS says all those who knowingly follow man made teachings and traditions that break the commandments of God are not following God *Matthew 15:3-9

I believe God's Word how about you?

May you receive God's Word and be blessed.

 

[MJFlores]

This will be my last post to you here on who God's ISRAEL are in the new covenant. There is a whole new thread in relation to this topic made that shows in detail why you are in error scripture by scripture in ...

God's Israel in the new testament who is it *Romans 9:6-8 linked

If you disagree with the scriptures in the linked OP than prove your claims and adress the OP there scripture by scripture. If you cannot my friend why not receive God's blessing and believe and follow God's Word? Your comments here only show you did not read all the OP or consider the scriptures provided and sent you only in love and as a help to you.

This topic is in Colossians 2:16-17 the real truth did you have anything to share?

Ignoring God's Word dear friend does not make it dissappear. The same as making your text bigger or adding funny pictures does not make anything you say true. Only God's Word is true and we should believe and follow it over the teachings and traditions of men that break the commandments of God.

JESUS says all those who knowingly follow man made teachings and traditions that break the commandments of God are not following God *Matthew 15:3-9

I believe God's Word how about you?

May you receive God's Word and be blessed.

If the Bible says this fact, I believe we should follow and obey what it says.
Now if we continue to be stubborn and ignore what is written, then we really deserve to suffer our folly.

As I have shown, that the Sabbath has been abolished / repealed / withdrawn by God, 700 years before Jesus Christ was born and this fact could be found in Lamentations, Isaiah and Hosea, centuries before apostle Paul wrote Colossians 2:16-26. The Jews like the Pharisees practiced Sabbath but this was ignored by the Lord Jesus Christ and his disciples because they knew it is DEFUNCT. Jesus worked on the Sabbath and the Pharisees were pissed off.

The Sabbath was ordered observed by God for the Israelites
The Israelites made the Sabbath an abomination
That is why the Lord God ended the Sabbath

Isaiah 1:13-15 New International Version (NIV)
Stop bringing meaningless offerings!
Your incense is detestable to me.
New Moons, Sabbaths and convocations—
I cannot bear your worthless assemblies.
Your New Moon feasts and your appointed festivals
I hate with all my being.
They have become a burden to me;
I am weary of bearing them.
When you spread out your hands in prayer,
I hide my eyes from you;
even when you offer many prayers,
I am not listening.

But if you want to continue like the rest in observing Sabbath

It is a personal choice to celebrate a defunct repealed and abolished Sabbath
It is the same as celebrating a man made celebration or a pagan introduced celebration

But for me, when the Lord God said STOP, I obey
The disobedient would GO when he sees a red light

It is pretty obvious that when a doctrine couldn't be defended, it is false
It is really hard to defend what is false and it is easy to explain what is right.
The bible talks and when it talks, its about the truth

 

[3rdAngel]

If the Bible says this fact, I believe we should follow and obey what it says.

Indeed than why do you not believe it and choose instead to follow man made traditions and teachings that break the commandments of God and are not biblical? JESUS says all those who follow man made teachings and traditions that break the commandments of God are not following God *MATTHEW 15:3-9.

Now if we continue to be stubborn and ignore what is written, then we really deserve to suffer our folly.

Then do not do it brother. You have been provided God's Word that shows why you are in error but your response is to ignore God's Word and post pretty pictures in order to justify following man made traditions that break the commandments of God over the Word of God.

As I have shown, that the Sabbath has been abolished / repealed / withdrawn by God, 700 years before Jesus Christ was born and this fact could be found in Lamentations, Isaiah and Hosea, centuries before apostle Paul wrote Colossians 2:16-26.

WRONG! You have taken the scriptures out of context to try and make them say something that they are not saying in order to try to justify following man made traditions and teachings that breaking the commandments of God despite the warning of JESUS given in Matthew 15:3-9 and when shown through the scripture the context you ignore that shows why you are in error you simply ignore it and post pretty pictures. If you disagree than I challenge you dear brother to address the OP that shows that your interpretation of the the scriptures you quote from Isaiah 1:13-15 and Hosea 2:11 are in error. If you cannot why do you not believe God's Word?

Now let's be honest. All your posts have been addressed scripture by scripture and you have been shown why you are in error. Yet you do not respond to the scriptures and the content of my posts section by section and scripture by scripture as has been done with your posts because you know that you have no response to the God's Word shared with you.

Hear God's Word and be blessed. Ignoring it does not make it dissappear.

 

[3rdAngel]

The Jews like the Pharisees practiced Sabbath but this was ignored by the Lord Jesus Christ and his disciples because they knew it is DEFUNCT. Jesus worked on the Sabbath and the Pharisees were pissed off.

There once again are simply your words denying God's WORD. Then we have God's Word once again that disagrees with your words...

What did Jesus and the Apostles teach about the Sabbath in the New Testament?

1. It is lawful to do good on the Sabbath (Matthew 12:1-8; 10-12; 24:20; Mark 3:1-5; Luke 6:1-10; 13:14-16; 14:1-5; John 7:22-23; 9:14; Mark 1:21; Mark 6:2; Luke 4:16; 31; Luke 14:1; 23:56)
2. Jesus made the Sabbath for all mankind (Hebrews 1:2; John 1:1-3; 14; Ephesians 3:9; Colossians 1:16-17; Mark 2:27)
3. Jesus is Lord of the Sabbath (Mark 2:28)
4. If you do not believe and follow God you cannot enter His Sabbath rest (Hebrews 4)
5. It is one of God’s 10 commandments we break it we are guilty or breaking all (James 2:8-12)
6. Breaking it is sin (1 John 3:4)
7. God’s true followers keep it Holy as God commanded (Rev 14:12; Rev 22:14; Eze 20:20)
8. Jesus is our example and he kept the Sabbath (Matt 12:1-8; 10-12; 24:20; Mark 3:1-5; Luke 6:1-10; 13:14-16; 14:1-5; John 7:22-23; 9:14; Mark 1:21; Mark 6:2; Luke 4:16; 31; Luke 14:1; 23:56; John 2:6; Matt 16:24; 1 Cor 11:1; Eph 5:1-21; Pet 2:20-22)
9. The Apostle kept the Sabbath (Acts 13:14; 13:27; 13:44; 15:21; 16:13; 17:2; 18:4; Rev 1:10)

Now these are God's Word (not mine) do you believe them?

 

[3rdAngel]

The Sabbath was ordered observed by God for the Israelites

Once again these are your words denying God's Word. Then we have God's Word that denys your words with JESUS saying that he made the Sabbath for all mankind...

Mark 2:27-28 [27], And he said to them, THE SABBATH WAS MADE FOR MAN, and not man for the sabbath: [28], Therefore the Son of man is Lord also of the sabbath.

When the Sabbath was made my friend there was NO JEW, NO ISRAEL, NO SIN, and it was a part of a finished work of creation that God set apart and rested on (God's rest), blessed and made as a Holy day of rest for all mankind...

GENESIS 2:1-3 [1], Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them. [2], And ON THE SEVENTH DAY God ended his work which he had made; and he RESTED [שׁבת; shâbath H7673; Keep Sabbath] on the SEVENTH DAY from all his work which he had made. [3], And GOD BLESSED THE SEVENTH DAY AND MADE IT HOLY: because that in it he had RESTED [שׁבת; shâbath H7673; Keep Sabbath] from all his work which God created and made.

The Hebrew word for RESTED used here is שׁבת; shâbath (H7673). It's meaning is; to repose, that is, desist from exertion; used in many implied relations (causatively, figuratively or specifically): - (cause to, let, make to) cease, celebrate, cause (make) to fail, KEEP SABBATH, suffer to be lacking, leave, put away (down), (make to) rest, rid, still, take away.

שׁבת; shâbath or REST (H7673) is the ORIGIN or ROOT word for שׁבּת; shabbâth (H7676) which is used in God's 4th commandments translated into english as SABBATH. The HEBREW Word for shabbâth meaing is the intermission between SABBATHS or shâbath (H7673) REST or the continuation meaing from one SABBATH REST to the Next SABBATH REST continuation or EVERY SABBATH. It's application is in God's 4th commandment EXODUS 20:8 is to REMEMBER [EVERY] Sabbath [shabbâth H7676].

In God's 4th commandment *EXODUS 20:8-11; v11 tells us the ORIGINS of God's 4th commandments Sabbath is in reference to GENESIS 2:1-3 and the reason why it is given as a memorial and celebration of creation to whorship God as the creator of Heaven and Earth.

These are all God's Word brother do you believe them?

 

[3rdAngel]

The Israelites made the Sabbath an abomination. That is why the Lord God ended the Sabbath

Once again your confusing the nation of Israel and the annual special sabbaths of Leviticus 23 connected to the feast days (Feast of trumpets, Day of Atonement and Feast of booths) with God's weekly 4th commandment. This is shown in the OP you did not read and refuse to address. Ignoring God's Word does not make it dissappear when you have the opportunity to learn a knowledge of the truth and put your fingers in your ears and close your eyes to pretend it does not exist.

Isaiah 1:13-15 New International Version (NIV) Stop bringing meaningless offerings! Your incense is detestable to me. New Moons, Sabbaths and convocations—I cannot bear your worthless assemblies. Your New Moon feasts and your appointed festivals I hate with all my being. They have become a burden to me; I am weary of bearing them. When you spread out your hands in prayer, I hide my eyes from you; even when you offer many prayers, I am not listening.

Thankyou, this scripture is actually provided in the OP and discussed here click me but you did not read the OP's which show why you are in error. These scripture are talking about the annual feast days and the shadow ceremonial sabbaths in ordinances not God's 4th Commandment of the 10 commandments.

But if you want to continue like the rest in observing Sabbath It is a personal choice to celebrate a defunct repealed and abolished Sabbath It is the same as celebrating a man made celebration or a pagan introduced celebration

Once again these are your words that deny God's Word, then we have Gods' Word that denies your words. God's 4th commandment is one of God's 10 commandments that in the new covenant give us the knowledge of Good and Evil; Sin and Righteousness *Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4. According to God's Word (not my words) if we break any one of God's 10 commandments we stand guilty before God of sin *James 2:10-11; 1 John 3:4. All those who continue in known unrepentant sin will not enter into the kingdom of heaven because they reject the gift of God's dear son *Romans 6:23 and count the blood of the covenant an unholy thing doing despite to the Spirit of grace *Hebrews 10:26-39.

These are God's Word not my words do you believe them?

 

[3rdAngel]

But for me, when the Lord God said STOP, I obey The disobedient would GO when he sees a red light

Once again, more of your words denying God's Word. God did not say stop keeping his commandments. He says "IF YOU LOVE ME KEEP MY COMMANDMENTS" *John 14:15. God's Word (not me) also says those who teach others to break his commandments do not know him and are lying.

1 JOHN 2:3-4 [3], And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments [4], He that said, I know him, and keeps not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

These are God's Words (not my words) do you believe them?

It is pretty obvious that when a doctrine couldn't be defended, it is false It is really hard to defend what is false and it is easy to explain what is right. The bible talks and when it talks, its about the truth

Then you are in trouble my friend aren't you? Harden not your heart and open your eyes and ears to hear Gods' Word it is not too late. Receive Gods' Word and be blessed. Ignoring God's Word does not make it dissappear it we be our judge come judgment day *John 12:47-48. God's Sheep hear his Voice (the Word) and follow him. Those who do not hear do not follow.

 

[The Anointed]

It was the prophet Zephaniah through whom the Lord said; "I am going to destroy everything 'ON EARTH', All human beings and animals, birds and fish. I will bring about the downfall of the wicked. I will destroy mankind and no survivors will be left. I the Lord have spoken. . . . . . . . . "On the day when the Lord shows his fury, not even all their gold and silver will save them. The whole 'EARTH' will be destroyed by the fire of his anger. He will put an end----a sudden end----to everyone who lives 'ON EARTH.' "

The weekly Sabbath, said Paul, in Colossians 2: 17; was but a shadow of the reality in the future, which is the Great Sabbath, the Lords day of one thousand years.

From the Book of Jubilees 4: 30; "And He (Adam) lacked seventy years of one thousand years; for one thousand years are as one day in the testimony of the heavens and therefore was it written concerning the tree of knowledge: "On the day thou eat thereof ye shall die." For this reason, Adam did not complete the years of that first day; for He died during it." Adam died at the age of 930 in the first day.

The future reality of which the weekly Sabath was but a shadow, is the seventh day from the day in which Adam ate of the forbidden fruit and died in that day at the age of 930.

As all physical life forms on this planet are to be destroyed immediately after the thousand year rule of Christ is ended, and we are now approaching the close of the 6th period of one thousand years and the beginning of the seventh day, we can now see the future reality of the weekly Sabbath as revealed by Paul.

 

[MJFlores]

Once again, more of your words denying God's Word. God did not say stop keeping his commandments. He says "IF YOU LOVE ME KEEP MY COMMANDMENTS" *John 14:15. God's Word (not me) also says those who teach others to break his commandments do not know him and are lying.

1 JOHN 2:3-4 [3], And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments [4], He that said, I know him, and keeps not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

These are God's Words (not my words) do you believe them?

Then you are in trouble my friend aren't you? Harden not your heart and open your eyes and ears to hear Gods' Word it is not too late. Receive Gods' Word and be blessed. Ignoring God's Word does not make it dissappear it we be our judge come judgment day *John 12:47-48. God's Sheep hear his Voice (the Word) and follow him. Those who do not hear do not follow.

I am sorry, I am not an Israelite to follow the SABBATH
It is not for me.

I am sorry, my God stopped the SABBATH
How can obey when he stopped it?

I am sorry, the Lord Jesus Christ worked every SABBATH
It is wrong to work in a SABBATH said the Pharisees
I am sorry I have to follow Christ not the Pharisees

Now if you think you are qualified to observe the Sabbath
even if you are not an Israelite....
If you think you can still observe the Sabbath
even if God Almighty put an end to that....
If you think you should stop work on the Sabbath
even if Jesus worked on every Sabbath....

 

[3rdAngel]

It was the prophet Zephaniah through whom the Lord said; "I am going to destroy everything 'ON EARTH', All human beings and animals, birds and fish. I will bring about the downfall of the wicked. I will destroy mankind and no survivors will be left. I the Lord have spoken. . . . . . . . . "On the day when the Lord shows his fury, not even all their gold and silver will save them. The whole 'EARTH' will be destroyed by the fire of his anger. He will put an end----a sudden end----to everyone who lives 'ON EARTH.' "

The weekly Sabbath, said Paul, in Colossians 2: 17; was but a shadow of the reality in the future, which is the Great Sabbath, the Lords day of one thousand years.

From the Book of Jubilees 4: 30; "And He (Adam) lacked seventy years of one thousand years; for one thousand years are as one day in the testimony of the heavens and therefore was it written concerning the tree of knowledge: "On the day thou eat thereof ye shall die." For this reason, Adam did not complete the years of that first day; for He died during it." Adam died at the age of 930 in the first day.

The future reality of which the weekly Sabath was but a shadow, is the seventh day from the day in which Adam ate of the forbidden fruit and died in that day at the age of 930.

As all physical life forms on this planet are to be destroyed immediately after the thousand year rule of Christ is ended, and we are now approaching the close of the 6th period of one thousand years and the beginning of the seventh day, we can now see the future reality of the weekly Sabbath as revealed by Paul.

Nope! Please read the OP before commenting brother. Your post only shows you did not read the OP.
Can I suggest you read post # 6; posts # 7; posts # 8; posts # 9 and posts # 10 linked from the OP as they prove that Colossians 2:11-17 is not talking about God's 10 Commandments but the shadow laws from the Mosaic book of the old covenant in ordinances that pointed to JESUS and God's plan of salvation in the new covenant and feast days.

According to God's Word in the new covenant God's LAW (10 commandments) gives us the knowledge of what sin is when broken *Romans 3:20 and if we break any one of them we stand guilty before God of sin *James 2:10-11. No one is under the law if they have repented and been forgiven of their sins. We are only "under the law" if we are guilty before God of breaking the law *Romans 3:19-20.

Please read the OP before commenting so you can have something to contribute. If you disagree with the linked posts above show us why you disagree?

Surface readers are like sifting sand going no where and blown about with every wind of doctrine because they have no root in the Word of God. Ignoring God's Word does not make it dissappear as it becomes our judge come judgment day *John 12:47-48

May God bless you as you seek him through his Word

 

[3rdAngel]

I am sorry, I am not an Israelite to follow the SABBATH
It is not for me.

I am sorry, my God stopped the SABBATH
How can obey when he stopped it?

I am sorry, the Lord Jesus Christ worked every SABBATH
It is wrong to work in a SABBATH said the Pharisees
I am sorry I have to follow Christ not the Pharisees

Now if you think you are qualified to observe the Sabbath
even if you are not an Israelite....
If you think you can still observe the Sabbath
even if God Almighty put an end to that....
If you think you should stop work on the Sabbath
even if Jesus worked on every Sabbath....

Your words are meaningless and only your own words that denies God's. Only God's Word is true and we should believe and follow them over the teachings and traditions of men that break the commandments of God *Matthew 15:3-9. Ignoring God's Word does not make it dissappear.

May I suggest you read post # 6; posts # 7; posts # 8; posts # 9 and posts # 10 linked from the OP as they prove that Colossians 2:11-17 is not talking about God's 10 Commandments but the shadow laws from the Mosaic book of the old covenant that pointed to JESUS and God's plan of salvation in the new covenant and feast days.

According to God's Word in the new covenant God's LAW (10 commandments) gives us the knowledge of what sin is when broken *Romans 3:20 and if we break any one of them we stand guilty before God of sin *James 2:10-11. No one is under the law if they have repented and been forgiven of their sins. We are only "under the law" if we are guilty before God of breaking the law *Romans 3:19-20.

Please read the OP here before commenting so you can have something to intelligent to contribute. If you disagree with the linked posts above show us why you disagree? If you cannot why do you not believe God's Word?

Surface readers are like sifting sand going no where and blown about with every wind of doctrine because they have no root in the Word of God. Ignoring God's Word does not make it dissappear as it becomes our judge come judgment day *John 12:47-48.

If you want to discuss who Gods Word in regards to Israel is in the new covenannt please see the linked post below and address the OP there if you disagree with it. If you cannot why do you not believe Gods' Word?

God's Israel in the new testament who is it *Romans 9:6-8

May you receive God's Word and be blessed. Ignoring it does not make it dissappear.

 

[The Anointed]

Nope! Please read the OP before commenting brother. Your post only shows you did not read the OP.
Can I suggest you read post # 6; posts # 7; posts # 8; posts # 9 and posts # 10 linked from the OP as they prove that Colossians 2:11-17 is not talking about God's 10 Commandments but the shadow laws from the Mosaic book of the old covenant in ordinances that pointed to JESUS and God's plan of salvation in the new covenant and feast days.

According to God's Word in the new covenant God's LAW (10 commandments) gives us the knowledge of what sin is when broken *Romans 3:20 and if we break any one of them we stand guilty before God of sin *James 2:10-11. No one is under the law if they have repented and been forgiven of their sins. We are only "under the law" if we are guilty before God of breaking the law *Romans 3:19-20.

Please read the OP before commenting so you can have something to contribute. If you disagree with the linked posts above show us why you disagree?

Surface readers are like sifting sand going no where and blown about with every wind of doctrine because they have no root in the Word of God. Ignoring God's Word does not make it dissappear as it becomes our judge come judgment day *John 12:47-48

May God bless you as you seek him through his Word

Read them old mate, nothing more than a hodge podge of scriptures taken completely out of the context in which they were intended. in other words, just another load of rubbish. If I had not revealed to you the truth as to the future reality of which the weekly Sabbath is but a shadow, as revealed by Paul, you would now, not be living in denial of God's truth.

Goodnight.

 

[3rdAngel]

Read them old mate, nothing more than a hodge podge of scriptures taken completely out of the context in which they were intended. in other words, just another load of rubbish. If I had not revealed to you the truth as to the future reality of which the weekly Sabbath is but a shadow, as revealed by Paul, you would now, not be living in denial of God's truth.

Goodnight.

Rubbish! That comment does not show you read them at all as post # 6; posts # 7; posts # 8; posts # 9 and posts # 10 go through Colossians 2:11-17 showing the within scripture and chapter context as well as the greek word meanings and the context to what Paul is citing in the old testament scriptures.

This proves that what you and many other churches clain is taken out of context leading you to a false interpretation of the scriptures. If you disagree please address the linked posts provided above and show why they are in error. If you cannot brother why not receive Gods Word in the Spirit it was given (love) and receive God's blessing?

May you receive God's Word and be blessed. Ignoring it does not make it dissappear. The same as JESUS says all those who knowingly following man made teachings and traditions that break the commandments of God are not following God *Matthew 15:3-9.

Context matters brother and you have provided none.

 

[Rival]

Hey 3rdAngel, let me know when the thread gets back to topic of looking at Colossians 2:16, and I'll come back and pop in. I have a lot more detailed material on Colossians 2 in context, but think it better to hold off, until at least a semblance of an attempt at addressing what I have already provided even in one single response is in any manner seriously considered.

I will also address our resident Noahidden who has brought up a statement that is normally cited by anti-nomians, which is being the so-called '613' 'mitzvot' of the Torah, that first part of the TaNaKh (Torah (instruction/law), Nevi'im (prophets), Ketuvim (writings)), the original breakdown of which looked like - Link

But before that, I wanted to point out something that he needs to correct:

Dear Rival,

The citation you have provided is in error. The actual reference you needed to provide was Leviticus 24:1-etc, not Exodus 24:1-etc. You may want to go back and edit your response appropriately. Every little detail matters.

So, in Exodus Leviticus 24:1-etc, we are dealing with what the website you linked us to are 'mitzvot' [H4687].

An example is found in Genesis 26:5, which we will look at in just a minute, but first, I want to go back to your source, and show you something that I always point out to sincere people who bring this up. You quote as follows:

Ok. I know how some like ordered lists, so here goes:

[1.] To begin with, there is not a single place in all the TaNaKh, neither the portion thereof, the Torah (Gen-Deut) where God, Moses, Joshua, or any person of heaven above, or on this earth below, state on biblical record that there are exactly '613' 'mitzvot'. For the New Testament minded (Matt-Rev), the same applies also. Again, absent. Jesus, as a final example (for the New Testament minded), did not once enumerate the 'mitzvot' of the Torah for us in such fashion, to '613' or any other such number.

[2.] The enumeration of '613' is a Rabbincal, yea even after a Talmudical, fashioning or calculation or enumeration. No one has to take my word for this, it is said as much on the very site so kindly provided to us (it has been provided so many times, I lost count):

"... Below is a list of the 613 mitzvot (commandments). It is based primarily on the list compiled by Rambam in the Mishneh Torah, but I have consulted other sources as well. As I said in the page on halakhah, Rambam's list is probably the most widely accepted list, but it is not the only one. The order is my own, as are the explanations of how some rules are derived from some biblical passages. ..." - Link source already provided by Rival

As a side note:

The RaMBaM (whom I have read on numerous occasions, with others, such as RaMBaN, Pirke, etc) is actually, Ra(bbi) M(oses) Ba(ni) M(aimon), aka Maimonides, of the 12th cent Morocco & Egypt (during the Almoravid (Muslim) empire, and died under the Ayyubid sultanate) - Link

[3.] RaMBaM's listing isn't the only one. There are other listings, by other Rabbis, all several thousand years removed from Moses or Joshua, and the website provided by our resident Noahidden demonstrates the accuracy of this point.

[4.] RaMBaM's order of listing isn't the only one. There are other orderings, by other Rabbis and persons non-Rabbi (scholars, etc), and again, the very website provided, demonstrates this by stating it out as matters of fact, and in personal ordered listing preferred instead to RaMBaM's (example 2 orders at least on the face of it).

[5.] RaMBaM's explanation for the listing and ordering thereof is not the only one. There are explanations, just as there are other listings and orderings by other Rabbis, etc. (generally, not exclusively, following after RaMBaM, (thus post 12th cent), possible just more easily accessible)

... to be continued ...

Anti-nomain? Do you even know what my religion is? I believe exactly the same things Orthodox Jews do. I'm becoming tired of explaining this.

So what's your point? You disagree that there are 613 mitzvot? Disagree with Rabbinic Judaism (another Christian favourite, for some reason)? Sure, some people may count more than 613, but if you ask most Jews this is the answer they'll give you. Why you have a problem with that I can't really imagine. I'm guessing it's because you're anti-Rabbinic Judaism, which in effect just makes you anti-Judaism. A standard Christian, really.

Also, I made no error. I was citing, as I wrote, a random example, if you'd go back and read our discourse again.

 

[3rdAngel]

If I had not revealed to you the truth as to the future reality of which the weekly Sabbath is but a shadow, as revealed by Paul, you would now, not be living in denial of God's truth. Goodnight.

According to God's Word (not mine) JESUS says that he made the SABBATH for all mankind *Mark 2:27-28. According to God's Word (not mine) the Sabbath was made on the "seventh day" of the creation week after God created all things in six days *Genesis 1. On the "seventh day" God rested from all his Works that he finished during creation, set aside the "seventh day" from all the other days of the week, "blessed the seventh day" and made it a "holy day of rest" for all mankind *Genesis 2:1-3.

Now brother please pay attention....

When the Sabbath was made as JESUS says for all mankind..

1. There was NO SIN
2. There was NO JEW
3. There was NO ISRAEL
4. There was NO PLAN OF SALVATION given to mankind because man was in perfect harmony with God
5. The Sabbath was made as part of a "FINISHED WORK" of creation

All the "SHADOW laws are written in the Mosiac book of the old Covenant and point to JESUS and God's plan of salvation for mankind.

Now if there was NO SIN and NO PLAN OF SALVATION GIVEN because there was NO SIN how can God's 4th commandment which is a memorial and a celebration of the finished work of creation be a "SHADOW LAW" when there was NO SIN and NO plan of salvation?

It is impossible for the Sabbath to be a Shadow as it was made before the shadow laws were given!

Sorry brother God's Word disagrees with you, hope you can see your error here.

 

[MJFlores]

According to God's Word (not mine) JESUS says that he made the SABBATH for all mankind .

Just out of curiosity, what exactly do you do during Sabbath?

a) Do nothing like....

b) or have fun the whole day?

 

[Redemptionsong]

Hi Redemptionsong nice to meet you and welcome here .

You are correct brother. The days of the week as well as God's time is different to the worlds application of time. The seventh day Sabbath of God's 4th commandment starts sunset friday and ends sunset Saturday. You are also correct in the origin of the nomenculture of our week days. God's Word simply calls the days of the week; day 1; day 2; day 3; day 4; day 5; Preparation before the Sabbath (day 6) and Sabbath (day 7).

The New Testament is in agreement as to which day is the seventh day of the week. One of the most straight-forward references is found in Luke 23:53-56 & Luke 24:1, and describes Joseph of Arimathaea taking the body of Jesus down off the cross. “Then he took it [the body of Jesus] down, wrapped it in linen, and laid it in a tomb that was hewn out of the rock, where no one had ever lain before. That day was the Preparation, and the Sabbath drew near. And the women who had come with Him from Galilee followed after, and they observed the tomb and how His body was laid. Then they returned and prepared spices and fragrant oils. And they rested on the Sabbath according to the commandment. Now on the first day of the week, very early in the morning, they, and certain other women with them, came to the tomb bringing the spices which they had prepared.”

This Bible passage shows the chronology of the week including how the Sabbath day and the first day of the week relate to each other. According to Luke 23:54, Jesus died on the preparation day which we now call Good Friday. The next day, Sabbath, the women rested according to the commandment. Finally, after the Sabbath, on the first day of the week, Jesus was resurrected. Therefore, according to the Bible, the Sabbath day can be pinpointed as the day before the first day of the week. Today, we call this day Saturday or the seventh day of the week. In addition, ask any Christian which day comes between Good Friday and Resurrection Sunday—their answer, Saturday.

Preparation day or sixth day = Friday
Sabbath day or seventh day = Saturday
Resurrection day or first day = Sunday

Many have asked the question, my calendar begins on Monday, doesn’t that make Sunday the seventh day of the week? It is true that many calendars begin on Monday, but some calendars around the world begin on Friday, Saturday or Sunday as well. The answer to this can be found by studying the linguistics or meaning of each day’s name, rather than only looking at the order of the days printed on paper. Any human can change the order of a printed calendar, but it is a lot harder to change every language in the world.

Consider the Greek language in which the New Testament was written. According to the Bible, the day before the Sabbath was called the preparation day or “paraskeue" in the Greek language. Even today, thousands of years later, the sixth day of the week, called "Friday" in the English calendar, is still called “Paraskeue" in the modern Greek calendar. Therefore the day that comes after Friday is the Sabbath day.

Looking at over 100 languages around the world, the seventh day of the week is translated as “Sabbath”. Here is a short list of languages and their translations: (Arabic: Sabet, Czech: Sobota, Indonesian: Sabtu, Italian: Sabato, Latin: Sabbatum, Portuguese: Sábado, Russian: Subbota, Spanish: Sabado).

What does the English language say about the Sabbath? Webster’s dictionary defines the Sabbath as the following: “Seventh day, Saturday, the seventh day of the week.” (Webster’s New Twentieth Century Dictionary, unabridged 2nd ed.)

Consider this—no language contains a correlating link between the word “Sabbath" and the first day of the week. In fact, not even one language designates another rest day besides the seventh day. This confirms the fact that those who used the original languages understood the meaning of the Sabbath and which day it fell upon (source).

............

JESUS says if you love me keep my commandments. We can only follow God if he has given us a new heart to love and if we love him *Hebrews 8:10-12; Romans 13:8-10; Matthew 22:36-40; James 2:8-12.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts Redemption-song

God bless

Hi 3rdAngel,

You say this:
"The New Testament is in agreement as to which day is the seventh day of the week. One of the most straight-forward references is found in Luke 23:53-56 & Luke 24:1, and describes Joseph of Arimathaea taking the body of Jesus down off the cross. “Then he took it [the body of Jesus] down, wrapped it in linen, and laid it in a tomb that was hewn out of the rock, where no one had ever lain before. That day was the Preparation, and the Sabbath drew near. And the women who had come with Him from Galilee followed after, and they observed the tomb and how His body was laid. Then they returned and prepared spices and fragrant oils. And they rested on the Sabbath according to the commandment. Now on the first day of the week, very early in the morning, they, and certain other women with them, came to the tomb bringing the spices which they had prepared.”

This Bible passage shows the chronology of the week including how the Sabbath day and the first day of the week relate to each other. According to Luke 23:54, Jesus died on the preparation day which we now call Good Friday. The next day, Sabbath, the women rested according to the commandment. Finally, after the Sabbath, on the first day of the week, Jesus was resurrected. Therefore, according to the Bible, the Sabbath day can be pinpointed as the day before the first day of the week. Today, we call this day Saturday or the seventh day of the week. In addition, ask any Christian which day comes between Good Friday and Resurrection Sunday—their answer, Saturday.

Preparation day or sixth day = Friday
Sabbath day or seventh day = Saturday
Resurrection day or first day = Sunday"

As a fellow lover of God's Word, you must have asked yourself this question; Did Jesus remain in the tomb for three days and three nights (Matthew 12:40)? Was Jesus, therefore, crucified on a Friday?

I have something else I would like you to consider. Sabbath days do not appear in scripture until after the Exodus from Egypt (God's original Sabbath excepted). Did the Patriarchs follow Sabbath observance? If they did not observe the Sabbath, then the Sabbath must be considered a thing of the Mosaic Law (Exodus 16:22-26).

 

[Crosstian]

Anti-nomain? Do you even know what my religion is? ...

Take more time to read, and more slowly at that, cautiously, carefully, and you will not leap to such outrageous and erroneous conclusions. I did not call you an anti-nomian, nor state that you taught what they do. Read again, please:

...I will also address our resident Noahidden who has brought up a statement that is normally cited by anti-nomians ...

There are clearly two groups of people identified in that sentence. I stated that what you did (as a Noahidden) was like unto what another group (anti-nomian) do all the time, namely attempt to bring in a so-called '613' mitzvot. I then proceeded to show the sandy foundation of doing so.

A Noahidden is merely the flip-side of the coin to anti-nomianism. It is just the converse extremism. All Law and no Jesus, as opposed to All Jesus and no Law., each reaches the same conclusion. Death. I am not here to argue any of this in this thread, as it is non-OP, but, merely correcting a previous thought and left it at that, and so still do.

 

[Crosstian]

As a fellow lover of God's Word, you must have asked yourself this question; Did Jesus remain in the tomb for three days and three nights (Matthew 12:40)? Was Jesus, therefore, crucified on a Friday?

Most persons misunderstand the phrase 3 days and 3 nights, and the phrase in the heart of the earth, which has nothing to do with the exclusive time of burial of Jesus in the tomb. If you want a detailed analysis of that, I can so provide, in another thread, that if you ask me to start, I will. Jesus was crucified , as what you say, 'on a Friday', scripturally, 'preparation', the 6th day of the week, and rose the 'first [day] of the week' (even understanding I know when this was according to scripture), but am not here in this thread to discuss it further. The OP is Colossians 2:16.