Crosstian
Baring the Cross
Ah, Luciferian doctrine, "Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law ...". The real doctrine of Iglesia Ni Christo, is thelemic, or Aliester Crowley-ian.
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Ah, Luciferian doctrine, "Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law ...". The real doctrine of Iglesia Ni Christo, is thelemic, or Aliester Crowley-ian.
It's a Noahide.Take more time to read, and more slowly at that, cautiously, carefully, and you will not leap to such outrageous and erroneous conclusions. I did not call you an anti-nomian, nor state that you taught what they do. Read again, please:
There are clearly two groups of people identified in that sentence. I stated that what you did (as a Noahidden) was like unto what another group (anti-nomian) do all the time, namely attempt to bring in a so-called '613' mitzvot. I then proceeded to show the sandy foundation of doing so.
A Noahidden is merely the flip-side of the coin to anti-nomianism. It is just the converse extremism. All Law and no Jesus, as opposed to All Jesus and no Law., each reaches the same conclusion. Death. I am not here to argue any of this in this thread, as it is non-OP, but, merely correcting a previous thought and left it at that, and so still do.
Just out of curiosity, what exactly do you do during Sabbath?
It's a Noahide.
And yes, you are absolutely right; there's no need for Jesus anywhere in my faith when I can repent directly to G-d.
Hi 3rdAngel, I have something else I would like you to consider. Sabbath days do not appear in scripture until after the Exodus from Egypt (God's original Sabbath excepted). Did the Patriarchs follow Sabbath observance? If they did not observe the Sabbath, then the Sabbath must be considered a thing of the Mosaic Law (Exodus 16:22-26).
Hi RS nice to see you again and welcome back. Good question but a misguided one by many churches (not you) trying to justify breaking God's law.
Very simply though according to God's Word, before the written Word of God given by God and through Moses there was the "spoken" Word of God given directly to God's people.
The Sabbath was not given to mankind at Mt Sinai it was given to mankind (Adam and Eve) at creation. The written Word of God was given to God's people at Sinai because God's people were in slavery for 400 years to the Egyptians and had mostly forgotten it.
Genesis 26:5 Because Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.
Hebrew and Greek Dictionaries w/TVM, Strong
LAWS - H8451; תּורה תּרה; tôrâh tôrâh; to-raw', to-raw'From H3384; a precept or statute, especially the Decalogue or Pentateuch: - law.
Abraham kept God's TORAH which includes God's LAW (10 Commandments) and the sacrificial laws for remission of SIN and SIN offerings.
Genesis 2:26, And Abraham took the wood of the burnt offering, and laid it on Isaac his son; and he took the fire in his hand, and a knife; and they went both of them together.
7, And Isaac spoke to Abraham his father, and said, My father: and he said, Here am I, my son. And he said, Behold the fire and the wood: but where is the lamb for a burnt offering?
8, And Abraham said, My son, God will provide himself a lamb for a burnt offering: so they went both of them together.
13, And Abraham lifted up his eyes, and looked, and behold behind him a ram caught in a thicket by his horns: and Abraham went and took the ram, and offered him up for a burnt offering in the stead of his son.
Burnt offereings were made for remission of SIN. What is SIN? Sin is disobedience to God's WORD and includes breaking God's Commandments (Romans 7:7; James 2:9-11; 1 John 3:4). It is God's WORD and his LAW that give us a KNOWLEDGE of SIN (Romans 3:20)
Romans 3:19, Now we know that what things soever the law said, it said to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.
20, Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
NOW if GOD tells us that Abraham kept his TORAH (LAWS) then is God's 4th Commandment not part of the TORAH?
Indeed it is. Where does it say in God's WORD that Abraham or any of God's people before MOSES did NOT Keep God's Sabbath?
God says Abraham kept TORAH (10 Commandments and sin offereings). You say Abraham DID NOT keep TORAH (This includes God's 4th Commandment). Who do we believe God or man?
Now if you BELIEVE Abraham did NOT keep God's SABBATH (part of TORAH) then please show the scriptures proving that Abraham did not keep the Sabbath which is part of the TORAH?
God's WORD shows God's LAW (10 Commandments) and the CEREMONIAL laws and ORDINANCES for SIN offerings (TORAH) were kept BEFORE Mt Sinai through the spoken Word of God.
Let's look at God's WORD....
Genesis 26:5, Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.
Genesis 5:24, And Enoch walked with God: and he was not; for God took him.
Genesis 6:8, But Noah found grace in the eyes of the LORD. 9, These are the generations of Noah: Noah was a just man and perfect in his generations, and Noah walked with God.
.............
CONCLUSION: God's people before Mt Sinai followed him and kept his laws (TORAH) through the God's spoken Word. God's Sabbath is a part of God's law (TORAH). There is NO scripture that says God's people including Abraham did NOT keep God's Sabbath. Genesis shows that God's people including Abraham kept his law (TORAH) which includes the Sabbath. There are many more scripture proof here in the torah on the spoken Word of God showing that God's people before Exodus knew God's laws but this is enough for now.
Are you so busy collecting scripture out of all context to that for which they were intended in your attempt to support your erroneous beliefs, that you are ignorant to the fact that the Israelites were not in Egypt for over 400 years, but only 215. In what year do you suppose that the Israelites left Egypt?
Your mathematics are in error, see the full chain here: Age of the Earth, a Chronological studyAre you so busy collecting scripture out of all context to that for which they were intended in your attempt to support your erroneous beliefs, that you are ignorant to the fact that the Israelites were not in Egypt for over 400 years, but only 215.
In what year do you suppose that the Israelites left Egypt?
Your mathematics are in error, see the full chain here: Age of the Earth, a Chronological study
Just jump to the section you refer to, the scriptures are therein listed.
In Part:
"... Exodus 12:40 Now the sojourning of the children of Israel, who dwelt in Egypt, was four hundred and thirty years.
Exodus 12:41 And it came to pass at the end of the four hundred and thirty years, even the selfsame day it came to pass, that all the hosts of the LORD went out from the land of Egypt.
We have further confirmation of the 400+ year time span (400 years of being entreated evil, and the first 30 of being treated with kindness because of Joseph), as God had foretold this to Abraham:
Genesis 15:13 And he said unto Abram, Know of a surety that thy seed shall be a stranger in a land that is not theirs, and shall serve them; and they shall afflict them four hundred years;
Genesis 15:14 And also that nation, whom they shall serve, will I judge: and afterward shall they come out with great substance.
Acts 7:6 And God spake on this wise, That his seed should sojourn in a strange land; and that they should bring them into bondage, and entreat them evil four hundred years.
Acts 7:6 And the nation to whom they shall be in bondage will I judge, said God: and after that shall they come forth, and serve me in this place.
Galatians 3:17 And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.
Genesis 47:4 proves that the famine in the land of Canaan was already in its second year (Genesis 41:30, 45:6; at which time Jacob was 130 years of age; Genesis 47:9; AM 2299), and Genesis 46:4 shows that it was God who commanded Jacob/Israel to go into Egypt, and that God would be with Him entering in, and leaving (with his children), for a promise of the future was given to Abraham, that the Egyptians would “afflict them” (Genesis 15:13), and “entreat them evil four hundred years” (Acts 7:6). Yet we know that Jacob/Israel and his children were not entreated evil or afflicted at the first (30 years), but received welcome into Egypt on behalf of Joseph by command of Pharaoh (Genesis 47:6,11,29, 50:22). It was only after the famine of 7 years was over (Genesis 41:30, 45:6; AM 2304), and after Jacob/Israel died (17 years later from speaking to Pharaoh, at the age of 147; Genesis 47:28, 49:33; Acts 7:15; AM 2316) and a few more years (AM 2329), that a change slowly began to take place, and all the moreso when Joseph himself died (Genesis 50:22,26; Exodus 1:6; AM 2370) and a new Pharaoh arose (Exodus 1:8-14). A slow transition had taken place, and didn't all take place in a day.
Therefore, if we take the date at which Jacob/Israel stood before Pharaoh (at age 130; Gen 47:9; AM 2299) and was invited into the land of Egypt, along with all his household, we can simply add the 430 years (Exodus 12:40-41; Galatians 3:17) to that date. AM 2299 + 430 = AM 2729, for the coming out of Egypt, “even the selfsame day” (Exodus 12:41). ..."
Hi RS nice to see you again and welcome back. Good question but a misguided one by many churches (not you) trying to justify breaking God's law.
Very simply though according to God's Word, before the written Word of God given by God and through Moses there was the "spoken" Word of God given directly to God's people.
The Sabbath was not given to mankind at Mt Sinai it was given to mankind (Adam and Eve) at creation. The written Word of God was given to God's people at Sinai because God's people were in slavery for 400 years to the Egyptians and had mostly forgotten it.
Genesis 26:5 Because Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.
Hebrew and Greek Dictionaries w/TVM, Strong
LAWS - H8451; תּורה תּרה; tôrâh tôrâh; to-raw', to-raw'From H3384; a precept or statute, especially the Decalogue or Pentateuch: - law.
Abraham kept God's TORAH which includes God's LAW (10 Commandments) and the sacrificial laws for remission of SIN and SIN offerings.
Genesis 2:26, And Abraham took the wood of the burnt offering, and laid it on Isaac his son; and he took the fire in his hand, and a knife; and they went both of them together.
7, And Isaac spoke to Abraham his father, and said, My father: and he said, Here am I, my son. And he said, Behold the fire and the wood: but where is the lamb for a burnt offering?
8, And Abraham said, My son, God will provide himself a lamb for a burnt offering: so they went both of them together.
13, And Abraham lifted up his eyes, and looked, and behold behind him a ram caught in a thicket by his horns: and Abraham went and took the ram, and offered him up for a burnt offering in the stead of his son.
Burnt offereings were made for remission of SIN. What is SIN? Sin is disobedience to God's WORD and includes breaking God's Commandments (Romans 7:7; James 2:9-11; 1 John 3:4). It is God's WORD and his LAW that give us a KNOWLEDGE of SIN (Romans 3:20)
Romans 3:19, Now we know that what things soever the law said, it said to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.
20, Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
NOW if GOD tells us that Abraham kept his TORAH (LAWS) then is God's 4th Commandment not part of the TORAH?
Indeed it is. Where does it say in God's WORD that Abraham or any of God's people before MOSES did NOT Keep God's Sabbath?
God says Abraham kept TORAH (10 Commandments and sin offereings). You say Abraham DID NOT keep TORAH (This includes God's 4th Commandment). Who do we believe God or man?
Now if you BELIEVE Abraham did NOT keep God's SABBATH (part of TORAH) then please show the scriptures proving that Abraham did not keep the Sabbath which is part of the TORAH?
God's WORD shows God's LAW (10 Commandments) and the CEREMONIAL laws and ORDINANCES for SIN offerings (TORAH) were kept BEFORE Mt Sinai through the spoken Word of God.
Let's look at God's WORD....
Genesis 26:5, Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.
Genesis 5:24, And Enoch walked with God: and he was not; for God took him.
Genesis 6:8, But Noah found grace in the eyes of the LORD. 9, These are the generations of Noah: Noah was a just man and perfect in his generations, and Noah walked with God.
.............
CONCLUSION: God's people before Mt Sinai followed him and kept his laws (TORAH) through the God's spoken Word. God's Sabbath is a part of God's law (TORAH). There is NO scripture that says God's people including Abraham did NOT keep God's Sabbath. Genesis shows that God's people including Abraham kept his law (TORAH) which includes the Sabbath. There are many more scripture proof here in the torah on the spoken Word of God showing that God's people before Exodus knew God's laws but this is enough for now.
Your earlier claims and question was...I'm sorry, but I like to go slowly. I will require more substantial scriptural evidence to be convinced of your interpretation!
Abraham obeyed God's voice, kept His charge, His commandments, statutes and laws (Gen.26:5). This is what scripture tells us. This we agree on.
You have then interpreted the text privately to suggest that the laws given to Abraham must have been the same laws as those given of Moses. The word TORAH means 'instruction or teaching' and could be used to refer to laws that were given by God prior to the covenant with Moses. Strong's definition does not say that the Torah IS exclusively the Mosaic Law. It says that the Mosaic Law, and Decalogue, are specific examples of TORAH. [It would be interesting to hear what our Hebraists have to say about this]
You cite the example of Abraham offering Isaac as a burnt offering. Scripture interprets scripture, so this is not because he was following the Mosaic law but because he was following the specific commandment given to him by God in Genesis 22:2; 'Take now thy son, thine only son Isaac, whom thou lovest, and get thee into the land of Moriah; and offer him there for a burnt offering upon one of the mountains which I will tell thee of.' This is what Abraham did in compliance with the commandment of God.
I also question your understanding of burnt offerings. Under Mosaic law burnt offerings were voluntary offerings, unlike sin and trespass offerings, which were compulsory. In your evidence you have described the burnt offering as a sin offering.
Finally, I feel very uncomfortable with the suggestion that somehow there are 'spoken' words of God that God has chosen to hide from us, despite the fact that their revelation could dramatically alter our understanding of how we are to please Him! It's not good enough to argue that because Abraham never overtly celebrates the Sabbath, that this means he must have done so covertly! Surely, it's what God SAYS that is of importance, not what God witholds.
My conclusion: If you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law. The law is a default for all who require discipline. Romans 14:5: One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind. I would like to see government uphold the right of individuals to take a day of rest every seven days, but I am not about to suggest to others that strict Sabbath adherence is necessary for acceptance into God's Kingdom.
Redemptionsong said: ↑ I have something else I would like you to consider. Sabbath days do not appear in scripture until after the Exodus from Egypt (God's original Sabbath excepted). Did the Patriarchs follow Sabbath observance? If they did not observe the Sabbath, then the Sabbath must be considered a thing of the Mosaic Law (Exodus 16:22-26).
Ah, Luciferian doctrine, "Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law ...". The real doctrine of Iglesia Ni Christo, is thelemic, or Aliester Crowley-ian.
WHAT DAY IS GOD'S SABBATH AND WHEN DOES IT START?
v10 The SEVENTH DAY of the week. (Friday sunset to Saturday sunset)
Is the exact number extremely important to her argument?[1.] To begin with, there is not a single place in all the TaNaKh, neither the portion thereof, the Torah (Gen-Deut) where God, Moses, Joshua, or any person of heaven above, or on this earth below, state on biblical record that there are exactly '613' 'mitzvot'. For the New Testament minded (Matt-Rev), the same applies also. Again, absent. Jesus, as a final example (for the New Testament minded), did not once enumerate the 'mitzvot' of the Torah for us in such fashion, to '613' or any other such number.
Again, is the particular number extremely important?[2.] The enumeration of '613' is a Rabbincal, yea even after a Talmudical, fashioning or calculation or enumeration. No one has to take my word for this, it is said as much on the very site so kindly provided to us (it has been provided so many times, I lost count):
"... Below is a list of the 613 mitzvot (commandments). It is based primarily on the list compiled by Rambam in the Mishneh Torah, but I have consulted other sources as well. As I said in the page on halakhah, Rambam's list is probably the most widely accepted list, but it is not the only one. The order is my own, as are the explanations of how some rules are derived from some biblical passages. ..." - Link source already provided by Rival
Bani, is the Arabic word for "children of". The correct word is "ben". You may want to edit that small detail.As a side note:
The RaMBaM (whom I have read on numerous occasions, with others, such as RaMBaN, Pirke, etc) is actually, Ra(bbi) M(oses) Ba(ni) M(aimon), aka Maimonides, of the 12th cent Morocco & Egypt (during the Almoravid (Muslim) empire, and died under the Ayyubid sultanate) - Link
[3.] RaMBaM's listing isn't the only one. There are other listings, by other Rabbis, all several thousand years removed from Moses or Joshua, and the website provided by our resident Noahidden demonstrates the accuracy of this point.
[4.] RaMBaM's order of listing isn't the only one. There are other orderings, by other Rabbis and persons non-Rabbi (scholars, etc), and again, the very website provided, demonstrates this by stating it out as matters of fact, and in personal ordered listing preferred instead to RaMBaM's (example 2 orders at least on the face of it).
[5.] RaMBaM's explanation for the listing and ordering thereof is not the only one. There are explanations, just as there are other listings and orderings by other Rabbis, etc. (generally, not exclusively, following after RaMBaM, (thus post 12th cent), possible just more easily accessible)
... to be continued ...
[6.] The '613' number is for some calculated on Gematraic principles, with differing reasons or starting points by differing Rabbis, and for this reason, some disagree that it should be said number, for instance:
....
However the word תורה is valued at 215; Tav:4 + Vav:6 + Resh:200 + Heh:5 = 215. So if we add the two for the first two commandments the people heard at Sinai: 215 + 2 = 217.
...
צִיצִית = 204
plus 8 threads and 5 knots = 217.
You can check the sums on this gematria calculator which uses the correct gematria of the Torah; Shematria
Vilna Gaon in Orot Hagra also disagreed that 613 was the correct number, saying;
It definitely cannot be said that only 613, and no more, come under the category of mitzvot. For if so, there are only three mitzvot from Berei**** until Bo, and many portions of the Torah contain no mitzvot. That is not plausible… The mitzvot are thus multitudinous beyond enumeration… ..." - Are there really 613 Mitzvot? : Gematria
[7.] Moses specifically said by inspiration of God, that what God spoke and wrote at Mt. Sinai with His own voice and finger from Heaven were "the ten commandments". God came down upon Mt. Sinai in awesome majesty, with the whole mountain covered in the fire of the presence of the Holy Angels of God, so that none but those whom God called up were able to come near.
Exo_34:28 And he was there with the LORD forty days and forty nights; he did neither eat bread, nor drink water. And he wrote upon the tables the words of the covenant, the ten commandments.
Deu_4:13 And he declared unto you his covenant, which he commanded you to perform, even ten commandments; and he wrote them upon two tables of stone.
Deu_10:4 And he wrote on the tables, according to the first writing, the ten commandments, which the LORD spake unto you in the mount out of the midst of the fire in the day of the assembly: and the LORD gave them unto me.
In each place the Hebrew word "[1697] dabar" is used, as the Ten Commandments are not merely laws or commands, but individual promises of God each that He would perform in those who would walk in His covenant. More on that later as needful.
Your extrapolation is conjecture. If nothing further was added to the Law, then the words "he added no more" should be found after the word "These words". Rather, it appears to be saying that He added no more out of the midst of the fire of the cloud and of the thick darkness with a great voice. Implying that He added more that were not under these conditions.[8.] The "ten commandments" that God spake in Person to all the people without the mediator Moses, were a complete Law, nothing further being added unto them, except later as to be written in a scroll/book through a mediator (Moses):
Deu_5:22 These words the LORD spake unto all your assembly in the mount out of the midst of the fire, of the cloud, and of the thick darkness, with a great voice: and he added no more. And he wrote them in two tables of stone, and delivered them unto me.
The phrase "Ten Commandments" does not exist in the Tanach. As noted above, they're simply called "Ten Things". These things may be commandments, but their limitation as such is brought on by your naming them as such.[9.] The "ten commandments" were written by God's own finger originally on sapphire stone and which second set was placed into the "pattern" Ark of the Covenant in the earthly tabernacle (Exodus 25:16,21).
This is your interpretation. The other interpretation is that it means inside the ark, to the side (as opposed to the center).[10.] The other precepts, statutes, laws, commands, ordinances, etc were all given by God through the mediator Moses, to be written by Moses' hand, and placed not inside of the Ark, but to be placed in the side of the Ark:
Deu_31:26 Take this book of the law, and put it in the side of the ark of the covenant of the LORD your God, that it may be there for a witness against thee.
You are again using your name for what's written on the Tablets and conflating them with the actual word commandment when used in the Tanach. Since the "Ten Commandments" aren't actually called commandments, David must not be talking about them in particular.So, while important, God makes distinction, by several means. The many other things which God gave fall under the umbrella of the Ten Commandments:
Psa_119:96 I have seen an end of all perfection: but thy commandment is exceeding broad.
and as such '613' probably wouldn't even come close to the depth of God's Ten Commandments, which are the expansion of His perfect character of Love, which itself is expressed in the greatest (Deuteronomy 6:5) and second greatest commandments (Leviticus 19:17-18) (both of whose contexts are the Ten Commandments, see Deut. 5, etc).
[11.] The '613' enumeration only considers material within the texts of the Torah (Gen-Deut), and not any other material from the Nevi'im or Ketuvim, as if God somehow stopped talking and giving commands through men, priests or prophets or kings, see Isaiah 8:20 (Law and Testimony)
[12.] Even from a basic search of scripture, the Torah itself makes differences between words:
Gen 26:5 KJB Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.
Gen 26:5 KJB Str. BecauseH6118 thatH834 AbrahamH85 obeyedH8085 my voice,H6963 and keptH8104 my charge,H4931 my commandments,H4687 my statutes,H2708 and my laws.H8451
Gen 26:5 HOT עקב אשׁר־שׁמע אברהם בקלי וישׁמר משׁמרתי מצותי חקותי ותורתי׃
Gen 26:5 HOT Str. עקבH6118 אשׁרH834 שׁמעH8085 אברהםH85 בקליH6963 וישׁמרH8104 משׁמרתיH4931 מצותיH4687 חקותיH2708 ותורתי׃H8451 (apologies for how this posts, not much can be done about that, I used highligher to mark the beginning and ending, so while the sentence reads left to right, each individual word correctly reads right to left)
Gen 26:5 HOT Translit. ëqev ásher-shäma av'rähäm B'qoliy waYish'mor mish'mar'Tiy mitz'wotay chuQôtay w'tôrotäy
Notice the distinction made between H4687 (mitzvot) and H8451 (torah), which is again found in Exodus 16:28,
Exo 16:28 And the LORD said unto Moses, How long refuse ye to keep my commandments and my laws?
This should suffice for now.
Is the exact number extremely important to her argument?
Again, is the particular number extremely important?
Bani, is the Arabic word for "children of". The correct word is "ben". You may want to edit that small detail.
All of these points don't appear to be particularly relevant to the argument. All of these listings agree that there is significantly more than 10 with the overwhelming majority overlapping with each other.
This citation is coming from some crackpot author that has posted here as well, who believe she's found the "true" order of letters and gematria. She's wrong, so this entire citation is as well.
The word dvr does not mean commandment or promise. It just means "thing" or "spoken [thing]". The relation to the as commandments stems from the opening statement of Ex. 20:1 and it's paraphrase in Deut. 10:4 that G-d spoke them. And that's something you find in virtually every other "commandment" G-d gives to Moses and/or Aaron as well.
Your extrapolation is conjecture. If nothing further was added to the Law, then the words "he added no more" should be found after the word "These words". Rather, it appears to be saying that He added no more out of the midst of the fire of the cloud and of the thick darkness with a great voice. Implying that He added more that were not under these conditions.
[quote[9.] The "ten commandments" were written by God's own finger originally on sapphire stone and which second set was placed into the "pattern" Ark of the Covenant in the earthly tabernacle (Exodus 25:16,21).
The phrase "Ten Commandments" does not exist in the Tanach. As noted above, they're simply called "Ten Things". These things may be commandments, but their limitation as such is brought on by your naming them as such.
This is your interpretation. The other interpretation is that it means inside the ark, to the side (as opposed to the center).
You are again using your name for what's written on the Tablets and conflating them with the actual word commandment when used in the Tanach. Since the "Ten Commandments" aren't actually called commandments, David must not be talking about them in particular.
He did stop. Isaiah 8:20 does not appear to contradict that.
There is a difference between these words, but they all fall under the umbrella term "commandments" because they are all things that G-d commanded, regardless of the particular form of legislation the commandment takes.
I'm pretty sure that the weakest rebuttal, is one where someone simply makes an assertion without any evidence at all...Sadly that would have to be one of the weakest rebuttals to scripture evidence I have seen and is simply your words denying God's. Anyhow I guess it has given you something to think about of you would not have even bothered.
May you receive God's Word and be blessed.
I'm pretty sure that the weakest rebuttal, is one where someone simply makes an assertion without any evidence at all...
And I explained why the poster's "evidence" was in fact not evidence at all.True, thankyou for agreeing with me. The other person you were responding to provided evidence for his post backed in scripture.
Can you provide an example of where I've done this?You simply denied it with your own words when it was written in the very scriptures you were quoting from without supplying any evidence to show why you disagree.
*Wakes up, checks phone. Sees Tum winning argument.*
Aw yeah. *Rates posts, turns over and goes back to sleep.*