COL 2:16 And The Sabbath - Are You Being Told The Truth?

[3rdAngel]

Jesus and his apostles were all Jewish; there were no Christians until after Christ's death.....as Jews, they were under the Mosaic Law. Gentiles were not added until later and the new covenant was in force. It was never a bad thing to observe the Law.....but Gentiles were not under any obligation to observe the Sabbath nor to get circumcised. The Law of Love applied to them. The Mosaic Law was finished, replaced by the New Covenant. (Jeremiah 31:31-34)

Can you give me a single scripture where Christians are commanded to observe a Sabbath?
The day is irrelevant if there is no command to observe it in the first place. Christendom's adoption of Sunday was nothing more than a disguised honor to the sun god.....much like a lot of other adoptions that had no place in Christian worship.

Regardless of JESUS and his apostle being all Jewish is a mute point as JESUS says that he made the SABBATH for all mankind and he is the creator of it *MARK 2:27-28. When the SABBATH was made there was NO SIN NO JEW, NO ISRAEL and NO PLAN OF SALVATION, only mankind (Adam and Eve) in perfect harmony with their creator who made the Sabbath for them *GENESIS 2:1-3.

HEBREWS 4:9 THEREFORE IT REMAINS FOR THE PEOPLE OF GOD TO KEEP THE SABBATH.

God's 4th commandment is one of God's 10 commandments that define what sin is when broken *James 2:10-11

According to God's Word all those who knowingly practice sin will not enter the kingdom of heave because they reject the gift of God's dear son and count the blood of the covenant an unholy thing *Romans 6:23; Hebrews 10:26-39.

God has his people in every Church *John 10:16 and knows that his people have been led astray by these Churches and in times of ignorance God does not hold us accountable for sin but when he gives us a knowledge of the truth of his Word calls all men everywhere to believe and follow him *Acts 17:30-31. God is calling his people out from following man made teachings and traditions *Matthew 15:3-9 back to the pure Word of God *John 4:23-24; Revelation 18:1-4

God's Sheep hear His Voice (the Word of God) and follow him *John 10:26-27

 

[MJFlores]

Nope. According to God's Word (not mine) breaking any one of God's 10 commandments is sin *JAMES 2:10-11; 1 JOHN 3:4; ROMANS 7:7 and all those who continue in known unrepentant sin will not enter the Kingdom of Heaven because they reject the gift of God's dear son *ROMANS 6:23 and count the blood of the covenant an unholy thing *HEBREWS 10:26-39. In times of ignorance when someone does not know any better God does not hold us accountable to sin but when he gives us a knowledge of the truth can calls on us to believe and follow his Word *ACTS 17:30-31.

You know that is pretty tasking to know what you mean by the verses you throw
JAMES 2:10-11; 1 JOHN 3:4; ROMANS 7:7 ROMANS 6:23 HEBREWS 10:26-39 ACTS 17:30-31
and fail to interpret them.

You have said:

Sunday worship is a tradition and teaching of man that has led many to break the commandments of God. Jesus says that if we follow the traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God

And now you want to back track from your statement?

These are just your words denying God's. Let me know when you have scripture to share to prove your claims. If you have no scripture for your tradition why do you not believe God's Word? Only God's Word is true and we should believe and follow it over the teachings and traditions of men that break the commandments of God *MATTHEW 15:3-9. Ignoring God's Word does not make it dissappear. Only God's Word is true and we should believe and follow it *ACTS 5:29; ROMANS 3:4

The laws for the Russians are for the Russians to follow.
The laws for the Americans are for the Americans to follow
The laws for the Chinese are for the Chinese to follow
Now the laws for the Israelites are for the Israelites to follow.

The commandments like the Sabbath were given to the Israelites and nobody else but them
They have the covenant back then
They have the promise back then
They have the only true God back then

Exodus 25:22 New International Version (NIV)
There, above the cover between the two cherubim that are over the ark of the covenant law, I will meet with you and give you all my commands for the Israelites.

Leviticus 27:34 New International Version (NIV)
These are the commands the Lord gave Moses at Mount Sinai for the Israelites.

Numbers 36:13 New International Version (NIV)
These are the commands and regulations the Lord gave through Moses to the Israelites on the plains of Moab by the Jordan across from Jericho.

Are you an Israelite?
No, you are not.
You may like to think you are but you are not.
Who is an Israelite today?
Nobody is.

Are there Israelites in the picture?
None.
Is Abraham an Israelite?
No he is not.

So why follow the law God gave for the Israelite when you are not an Israelite?
Jesus knew better.
Jesus knew that the Sabbath is no longer in effect.

Isaiah 1:13 New International Version (NIV)
Stop bringing meaningless offerings!
Your incense is detestable to me.
New Moons, Sabbaths and convocations—
I cannot bear your worthless assemblies.

[Isn't that God's new command which you are ignoring?]

 

[3rdAngel]

You know that is pretty tasking to know what you mean by the verses you throw JAMES 2:10-11; 1 JOHN 3:4; ROMANS 7:7 ROMANS 6:23 HEBREWS 10:26-39 ACTS 17:30-31 and fail to interpret them.

Well that is not true MJ, everytime I make a statement in my posts it is supported by scripure proof directly after the statment is made. If you read my posts and the scriptures provided you would know this already. It seems you do not read my posts. In the cases of the scriptures above for example they are all in reference to breaking God's law (10 commandments being th definition of what sin is and what happens to those who practice known unrepentant sin.

You have said:

3rdAngel said: ↑ Sunday worship is a tradition and teaching of man that has led many to break the commandments of God. Jesus says that if we follow the traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God

And now you want to back track from your statement?

Well that is not true Mj that is a true statement, why would you think I want to take it back when I have said no such thing? Please do not say things I have never said or believe.

The laws for the Russians are for the Russians to follow.
The laws for the Americans are for the Americans to follow
The laws for the Chinese are for the Chinese to follow
Now the laws for the Israelites are for the Israelites to follow.

The commandments like the Sabbath were given to the Israelites and nobody else but them
They have the covenant back then
They have the promise back then
They have the only true God back then

Exodus 25:22 New International Version (NIV)
There, above the cover between the two cherubim that are over the ark of the covenant law, I will meet with you and give you all my commands for the Israelites.

Leviticus 27:34 New International Version (NIV)
These are the commands the Lord gave Moses at Mount Sinai for the Israelites.

Numbers 36:13 New International Version (NIV)
These are the commands and regulations the Lord gave through Moses to the Israelites on the plains of Moab by the Jordan across from Jericho.

Are you an Israelite?
No, you are not.
You may like to think you are but you are not.
Who is an Israelite today?
Nobody is.

Are there Israelites in the picture?
None.
Is Abraham an Israelite?
No he is not.

So why follow the law God gave for the Israelite when you are not an Israelite?
Jesus knew better.
Jesus knew that the Sabbath is no longer in effect.

Your confused here brother and still repeatng yourself as your claims here have already been shown to be false through the scriptures elsewhere in this thread. God's LAW (10 Commandments) are for all of God's people.

The name "Israel" is only a name given by God himself to represent his people who believe and follow his Word. The origin of the name "Israel" come from Genesis 32:28 where Jacob wrestled with the Angel and prevailed ...for as a prince hast thou power with God and with men, and hast prevailed. Its meaning is his posterity will rule as God. Jacob had 12 sons representing the 12 tribes of Israel.

ISRAEL (God’s new name given to Jacob) had 12 sons which make up the 12 tribes of ISRAEL

GENESIS 35:22-26 [22], ... Now the sons of Jacob were twelve: [23], The sons of Leah; Reuben, Jacob's firstborn, and Simeon, and Levi, and Judah, and Issachar, and Zebulun: [24], The sons of Rachel; Joseph, and Benjamin: [25], And the sons of Bilhah, Rachel's handmaid; Dan, and Naphtali: [26], And the sons of Zilpah, Leah's handmaid; Gad, and Asher: these are the sons of Jacob, who were born to him in Paddanaram.

God’s promise of the NEW COVENANT is to ISRAEL…

JEREMIAH 31:31-34 [31], Behold, the days come, says the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: [32], Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; my covenant which they broke, although I was a husband unto them, says the LORD: [33], But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, says the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people. [34], And they shall teach no more every man his neighbor, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, says the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

144, 000 Come out of the 12 tribes of ISRAEL…

REVELATION 7:3-8 [3], Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God on their foreheads. [4], And I heard the number of them who were sealed: and there were sealed a hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel. [5], Of the tribe of Judah were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Reuben were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Gad were sealed twelve thousand. [6], Of the tribe of Asher were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Naphtali were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Manasseh were sealed twelve thousand. [7], Of the tribe of Simeon were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Levi were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Issachar were sealed twelve thousand. [8], Of the tribe of Zebulun were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Joseph were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Benjamin were sealed twelve thousand.

Now we have shown the origin of the name ISRAEL let's look at the scripture in detail in the NEW TESTAMENT scripture to see who God's ISRAEL is...

EPHESIANS 2:11-13 [11], Why remember, that you being in TIME PAST Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;

[12], That AT THAT TIME [in the Past] YOU WERE WITHOUT CHRIST, BEING ALIENS FROM THE COMMONWEALTH OF ISRAEL, STRANGERS FROM THE COVENANT OF PROMISE, HAVING NO HOPE, AND WITHOUT GOD IN THE WORLD: [13], BUT NOW IN CHRIST JESUS, YOU WHO WERE FAR OFF ARE MADE NEAR BY THE BLOOD OF CHRIST.

GALATIANS 3:28-29 [28], THERE IS NEITHER JEW NOR GREEK, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: FOR YOU ALL ONE IN CHRIST JESUS AND IF YOU BE CHRISTS, THEN YOU ARE ABRAHAM'S SEED FOR YOU ARE ALL ONE IN CHRIST JESUS [29], and IF YOU BE CHRISTS, THEN ARE YOU ABRAHAM'S SEED, AND HEIRS ACCORDING TO THE PROMISE.

God's true ISRAEL in the NEW COVENANT are not by name only but all those in Christ. Those of the FLESH (sinful human nature) are not Abrahams seed but those who BELIEVE and FOLLOW God in Christ are God's ISRAEL...

ROMANS 9:6-8 [6], FOR THEY ARE NOT ALL ISRAEL WHICH ARE OF ISRAEL,: [7], NEITHER, BECAUSE THEY ARE THE SEED OF ABRAHAM, ARE THEY ALL CHILDREN: but in Isaac shall thy seed be called <Christ> [8], That is, THEY WHICH ARE THE CHILDREN OF THE FLESH, THESE ARE NOT THE CHILDREN OF GOD: BUT THE CHILDREN OF THE PROMISE <those who believe> ARE COUNTED FOR THE SEED.

God's ISRAEL are all those in CHRIST that have been given a NEW HEART according to the NEW COVENANT promise...

ROMANS 2:28-29 [28], FOR HE IS NOT A JEW WHICH IS ONE OUTWARDLY; NEITHER IS THAT CIRCUMCISION, WHICH IS OUTWARDS IN THE FLESH: [29], BUT HE IS A JEW WHICH IS ONE INWARDLY; and CIRCUMCISION IS OF THE HEART, IN THE SPIRIT, AND NOT IN THE LETTER; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

In the NEW COVENANT all those in Christ are are God's ISRAEL...

COLOSSIANS 3:11 [11], WHERE THERE IS NEITHER JEW NOR GREEK circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: BUT CHRIST IS ALL IN ALL.

ROMANS 10:11-13 [11], For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed. [12], FOR THERE IS NO DIFFERENCE BETWEEN JEW OR GREEK: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him. [13], FOR WHOSOEVER SHALL CALL UPON THE NAME OF THE LORD SHALL BE SAVED.

The New Covenant is for God's Israel...

EZEKIEL 36:26-27 [26], A NEW HEART WILL I GIVE YOU, AND A NEW SPIRIT WILL I PUT WITHIN YOU; AND I WILL TAKE AWAY THE STONY HEART OUT OF YOUR FLESH, AND GIVE YOU A HEART OF FLESH. [27], AND I WILL PUT MY SPIRIT WITHIN YOU, AND CAUSE YOU TO WALK IN MY STATUTES AND YOU SHALL KEEP MY JUDGEMENTS AND DO THEM.

and again...

JEREMIAH 31:33-34 [33], BUT THIS IS THE COVENANT THAT I WILL MAKE WITH THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL; After those days, says the LORD, I WILL PUT MY LAW IN THEIR INWARD PARTS,AND WRITE IT IN THEIR HEARTS; and will be their God, and they shall be my people. [34], And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, says the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

Paul proclaims it here...

HEBREWS 8:10-12 [10], BUT THIS IS THE COVENANT THAT I WILL MAKE WITH THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL; After those days, says the LORD, I WILL PUT MY LAW IN THEIR INWARD PARTS, AND WRITE IT IN THEIR HEARTS; and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people: [11], And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest. [12], For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.

The NEW COVENANT is for GOD'S ISRAEL which represent those who BELIEVE and FOLLOW God’s WORD.

If you are not part of GOD'S ISRAEL then you are not a part of the NEW COVENANT (Hebrews 8:10-12).

............

CONCLUSION: God's ISRAEL is the name given by God to all those who BELIEVE and FOLLOW his WORD. GENTILES are now grafted in. If you are not a part of the God's ISRAEL then you have no part in the NEW COVENANT. GOD'S ISRAEL ARE ALL THOSE WHO BELIEVE AND FOLLOW GOD'S WORD (The Church). Sorry brother God's Word disagrees with you. Can you see your error here?

May you receive God's Word in the Spirit it was given and be blessed.

 

[3rdAngel]

Isaiah 1:13 New International Version (NIV) Stop bringing meaningless offerings! Your incense is detestable to me. New Moons, Sabbaths and convocations— I cannot bear your worthless assemblies. [Isn't that God's new command which you are ignoring?]

If you read the OP and the scriptures posted in post # 6; posts # 7; posts # 8; posts # 9 and posts # 10 linked from the OP you would see that the scriptures you post in ISAIAH 1"13 is not talking about God's 10 Commandments but the shadow laws from the Mosaic book of the old covenant and shadow sabbath from the annual feast days that pointed to JESUS and God's plan of salvation in the new covenant and feast days. But you do not and simply choose to ignore God's Word.

May you receive God's Word and be blessed. Ignoring it does not make it dissappear. Sin will keep all those who knowingly practice it out of God's Kingdom.

 

[1213]

Hello numbers nice to see you and welcome here

Thank you.

I can see you did not read the OP and the supporting scriptures provided in post # 6; posts # 7; posts # 8; posts # 9 and posts # 10 linked did you.

Sorry, I really don’t think they change what is said in Colossians 2 and it is not telling that we are no longer to keep Shabbat day.

And keeping the Shabbat doesn’t mean we are under the Law, if we do it because we love God, not because we must, but because we want to do freely God’s will.

For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments. His commandments are not grievous.
1 John 5:3

 

[3rdAngel]

Thank you. Sorry, I really don’t think they change what is said in Colossians 2 and it is not telling that we are no longer to keep Shabbat day.

Actually the op proves that many cherry pick and surface read Colossian 2:16-17 to make it try and say something that it is not by ignoring the within scripture context, the chapter context, Greek word definitions and the context to the rest of the scriptures in God's Word. This is why many that come to this thread do not want to discuss this OP but seek to talk about anything except this OP which is showing the real meaning behing Colossians 2 by providing context that many leave out of their interpretation of Colossians 2:16-17.

In the days of JESUS and the apostle (Paul in this case) their bible was the Old testament scripture. Everything we have from the new testament comes from the old testament scriptures. Paul was a Pharisee and knew the Old testament scriptures more than most and he was referring to the shadow laws in ceremonial ordinances that pointed to Jesus and God's plan of salvation in the new covenant.

The shadow sabbaths connected to certain annual festivals were a part of this (Feast of trumpets, Day of atonement and Feast of booths). These special sabbaths or rest unlike God's 4th commandment can fall on any day of the week depending on the yearly cycle and with the feast days are shadows of things to come.

This is in contrast to God's 4th commandment weekly "seventh day" Sabbath that is outside of these festivals that is part of a finished work made for mankind before sin and given to mankind as a memorial of creation and God as our creator *Genesis 2:1-3; Mark 2:27-28. Detailed scripture review and proof of everything said here is shown in the OP in post # 6; posts # 7; posts # 8; posts # 9 and posts # 10 linked from the OP

The teachings of Sunday worship in place of Gods 4th commandment on the other hand is a man made teaching and tradition that has no basis in the scriptures and is not biblical and has led many to break Gods' 4th commandment that JESUS warns us about in *Matthew 15:3-9.

God has his people in every Church *John 10:16 and knows that his people have been led astray by these Churches and in times of ignorance God does not hold us accountable for sin but when he gives us a knowledge of the truth of his Word calls all men everywhere to believe and follow him *Acts 17:30-31. God is calling his people out from following man made teachings and traditions *Matthew 15:3-9 back to the pure Word of God *John 4:23-24; Revelation 18:1-4

God's Sheep hear His Voice (the Word of God) and follow him *John 10:26-27

 

[3rdAngel]

MJFlores said: ↑The laws for the Russians are for the Russians to follow. The laws for the Americans are for the Americans to follow The laws for the Chinese are for the Chinese to follow

You might be interested to know that nearly every culture knows about God's Sabbath law linked click me

 

[Redemptionsong]

I hope you don't mind me adding a few thoughts on this subject.

We know that God rested on the seventh day, and that the days began and ended in the evening. So simply moving from a Sunday to a Saturday is not going to make things right. We would need to change the start and end of a day, which for most people runs from midnight to midnight.

We also need to change the names given to these days, as for us Brits, and our US friends, the names used are pagan (Saxon). If you happen to be French then the names are Roman (gods). The Jewish days are simply numbers, with the exception of Shabbat.

Can we be sure that what we call Friday/Saturday is God's seventh day? Maybe Saturday/Sunday was God's original seventh day! It all depends on a very accurate accounting of time over many centuries. It could be argued that what is most important is the duty to rest every seventh day. But does a universal or blanket law on Sabbath observance ensure worship 'in spirit and in truth'?

I do remember one wise old preacher who said that where things appear 'cut and dried' they are normally 'dead'! Legalism can easily quench the Spirit.

 

[3rdAngel]

I hope you don't mind me adding a few thoughts on this subject.

We know that God rested on the seventh day, and that the days began and ended in the evening. So simply moving from a Sunday to a Saturday is not going to make things right. We would need to change the start and end of a day, which for most people runs from midnight to midnight.

We also need to change the names given to these days, as for us Brits, and our US friends, the names used are pagan (Saxon). If you happen to be French then the names are Roman (gods). The Jewish days are simply numbers, with the exception of Shabbat.

Can we be sure that what we call Friday/Saturday is God's seventh day? Maybe Saturday/Sunday was God's original seventh day! It all depends on a very accurate accounting of time over many centuries. It could be argued that what is most important is the duty to rest every seventh day. But does a universal or blanket law on Sabbath observance ensure worship 'in spirit and in truth'?

I do remember one wise old preacher who said that where things appear 'cut and dried' they are normally 'dead'! Legalism can easily quench the Spirit.

Hi Redemptionsong nice to meet you and welcome here .

You are correct brother. The days of the week as well as God's time is different to the worlds application of time. The seventh day Sabbath of God's 4th commandment starts sunset friday and ends sunset Saturday. You are also correct in the origin of the nomenculture of our week days. God's Word simply calls the days of the week; day 1; day 2; day 3; day 4; day 5; Preparation before the Sabbath (day 6) and Sabbath (day 7).

The New Testament is in agreement as to which day is the seventh day of the week. One of the most straight-forward references is found in Luke 23:53-56 & Luke 24:1, and describes Joseph of Arimathaea taking the body of Jesus down off the cross. “Then he took it [the body of Jesus] down, wrapped it in linen, and laid it in a tomb that was hewn out of the rock, where no one had ever lain before. That day was the Preparation, and the Sabbath drew near. And the women who had come with Him from Galilee followed after, and they observed the tomb and how His body was laid. Then they returned and prepared spices and fragrant oils. And they rested on the Sabbath according to the commandment. Now on the first day of the week, very early in the morning, they, and certain other women with them, came to the tomb bringing the spices which they had prepared.”

This Bible passage shows the chronology of the week including how the Sabbath day and the first day of the week relate to each other. According to Luke 23:54, Jesus died on the preparation day which we now call Good Friday. The next day, Sabbath, the women rested according to the commandment. Finally, after the Sabbath, on the first day of the week, Jesus was resurrected. Therefore, according to the Bible, the Sabbath day can be pinpointed as the day before the first day of the week. Today, we call this day Saturday or the seventh day of the week. In addition, ask any Christian which day comes between Good Friday and Resurrection Sunday—their answer, Saturday.

Preparation day or sixth day = Friday
Sabbath day or seventh day = Saturday
Resurrection day or first day = Sunday

Many have asked the question, my calendar begins on Monday, doesn’t that make Sunday the seventh day of the week? It is true that many calendars begin on Monday, but some calendars around the world begin on Friday, Saturday or Sunday as well. The answer to this can be found by studying the linguistics or meaning of each day’s name, rather than only looking at the order of the days printed on paper. Any human can change the order of a printed calendar, but it is a lot harder to change every language in the world.

Consider the Greek language in which the New Testament was written. According to the Bible, the day before the Sabbath was called the preparation day or “paraskeue" in the Greek language. Even today, thousands of years later, the sixth day of the week, called "Friday" in the English calendar, is still called “Paraskeue" in the modern Greek calendar. Therefore the day that comes after Friday is the Sabbath day.

Looking at over 100 languages around the world, the seventh day of the week is translated as “Sabbath”. Here is a short list of languages and their translations: (Arabic: Sabet, Czech: Sobota, Indonesian: Sabtu, Italian: Sabato, Latin: Sabbatum, Portuguese: Sábado, Russian: Subbota, Spanish: Sabado).

What does the English language say about the Sabbath? Webster’s dictionary defines the Sabbath as the following: “Seventh day, Saturday, the seventh day of the week.” (Webster’s New Twentieth Century Dictionary, unabridged 2nd ed.)

Consider this—no language contains a correlating link between the word “Sabbath" and the first day of the week. In fact, not even one language designates another rest day besides the seventh day. This confirms the fact that those who used the original languages understood the meaning of the Sabbath and which day it fell upon (source).

............

JESUS says if you love me keep my commandments. We can only follow God if he has given us a new heart to love and if we love him *Hebrews 8:10-12; Romans 13:8-10; Matthew 22:36-40; James 2:8-12.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts Redemptionsong

God bless

 

[The Anointed]

Hi brother Anointed nice to meet you here. Brother from reading your post here it seems you have not read the OP and the scriptures provided there.

Can I suggest you read post # 6; posts # 7; posts # 8; posts # 9 and posts # 10 linked from the OP as they prove that Colossians 2:11-17 is not talking about anyone of God's 10 Commandments but the shadow laws from the Mosaic book of the old covenant that pointed to JESUS and God's plan of salvation in the new covenant and feast days. This includes all the "shadow sabbaths" connected to the annual feast days.

According to God's Word in the new covenant God's LAW (10 commandments) gives us the knowledge of what sin is when broken *Romans 3:20 and if we break any one of them we stand guilty before God of sin *James 2:10-11. . You say We are only "under the law" if we are guilty before God of breaking the law *Romans 3:19-20.

It is impossible for God's 4th commandment "seventh day" weekly sabbath to be a shadow of anything as it was part of a "finished work" of creation where God rested after he created all things in heaven and earth, set apart the "seventh day" from all the other days of the week, "blessed" the seventh day and made the seventh day a "holy day for all mankind *Genesis 2:1-3; Mark 2:27. The reason why God's 4th commandment "seventh day sabbath" is "impossible" to be a "shadow law" was because there was no sin, and mankind was in perfect harmony with God and there was no plan of salvation given to mankind from which the shadow laws of Moses are given.

May God bless you as you seek him through his Word.

You say that no one is under the law if they have repented and been forgiven of their sins. If, as you say, they are no longer under the law, are you suggesting that they can then return to breaking the letter of the law with impunity?

Two men watch as a young man hides from a pursuing mob of thugs with baseball bats, when asked if they knew where the young man was, one man lies in order to save the young man, the other who fears the loss of his immortal soul refuses to lie and reveals his hiding place, after which, he is brutally bashed almost to the point of death. Which of these two do you believe God would declare as acting righteously?

Total obedience to the letter of the law can only bring death. It is the spirit of the law which we must follow.

I tell you now that you can lie...There is a time to steal
There is a time to disobey....There is a time to kill
There is a work that must be done upon the Sabbath day
No one who understands the Lord would teach another way
For the Spirit judges not on what you do,
The heart and soul of man he searches through
It's the reason.... why the deeds of man are done
This is what the Lord God judges on.

The weekly Sabbath, said Paul, in Colossians 2: 17; was but a shadow of the reality in the future, which is the Great Sabbath, the Lords day of one thousand years.

From the Book of Jubilees 4: 30; "And He (Adam) lacked seventy years of one thousand years; for one thousand years are as one day in the testimony of the heavens and therefore was it written concerning the tree of knowledge: "On the day thou eat thereof ye shall die." For this reason, Adam did not complete the years of that first day; for He died during it." Adam died at the age of 930 in the first day.

We are now approaching the close of the 6th day and the beginning of the 7th, which is the great Sabbath, “The Day of The Lord” the seventh period of one thousand years from the day that Adam ate of the forbidden fruit and died in that first day at the age of 930, which day begins after the greatest period of tribulation that this world has ever seen.

This coming period of tribulation is said to be so severe, that if it were not for the intervention of the Lord, no flesh would survive. We are almost at the close of the sixth day, and soon comes the great tribulation, which is the war to end all wars, after which the Sabbath will dawn, but when? Nobody knows the exact date.

Zechariah 14: The Lord will gather all the nations together to make war on Jerusalem. The city will be taken, the houses Looted, and the women raped. Half the people will go into exile, but the rest of them will not be taken away from the city. Then the Lord will go out and fight against those nations, as he has fought in times Past. (This has not yet happened)

Numbers 24: 17, "A king, like a bright star, will arise in that Nation. Like a comet he will come from Israel. He will strike the leaders of Moab and beat down all the people of Seth. He will conquer his enemies in Edom and make their land his property. While Israel continues victorious. The Nation of Israel will trample them down and wipe out the last survivors." Zechariah 12: 10; "They will look upon me and see the one who they pierced, and they shall mourn for him as one mourns for an only child etc."

Isaiah 63: 1-6, "Who is this coming from the city of Bozrah in Edom? Who is this so splendidly dressed in red, marching along in power and strength?" It is the Lord, powerful to save, coming to announce his victory. "Why is his clothing so red, like that of a man who tramples grapes to make wine?" . . . . . The Lord answers, "I have trampled the nations like grapes and no one came to help me. I trampled them in my anger, and their blood has stained all my clothing. I DECIDED THAT THE TIME TO SAVE MY PEOPLE HAD COME; it was time to punish their enemies.

I was amazed when I looked and saw that there was no one to help me. But my anger made me strong, and I won the victory myself. In my anger I trampled whole nations and shattered them, I poured out their life’s blood on the earth."

See Zechariah 14. The Lord will come to fight for his people Israel as he has fought in times past and from within the inner most sanctuary of his tabernacle (The kingdom of God is within you) which temporary tabernacle is the body of mankind, he will fight the enemies of Israel; those Nations who surround Jerusalem in their attempt to drive God's chosen people into the sea.

The African tectonic plate in its northern migration, grinds against the Arabian plate in a line that runs up through the Red Sea and along the Jordon valley beneath the Mount of Olives.

Zechariah 14: 3-4; Then the Lord will go out and fight for his people as he has fought in times past. At that time, he will stand on the Mount of Olives, to the east of Jerusalem. Then the Mount of Olives will be split in two, from east to west by a large valley. Half of the mountain (On the African plate) will move northward, and half of it (On the Arabian plate) will move southward.

Could the violent activity around the earth at this time, be the trigger that will cause the super volcano beneath Yellow stone to erupt, enveloping the planet in a cloud of debris? And that day shall be neither day nor night, but a perpetual twilight.

Zechariah 14: 13; Then the Lord will throw those nations that surround Jerusalem, into a state of total confusion, and the weapons of destruction with which they would destroy Israel, he will cause them to turn upon their own allies and they shall suffer a terrible disease, the soft tissue such as their eyes and tongues will melt in their sockets, and their radiated flesh, cooked to the bone, will slide from their bodies while still standing. Then all the surviving Nations will send their representatives each year to Jerusalem in the land of Israel, to worship and pay tribute to the Lord who will rule the whole world with justice for a thousand years, and woe betide those who refuse to do so.

Then all the godless people of this world, and all those, who in their Synagogues, Mosques, and Cathedrals of stone, marble, or crystal, who prostate themselves on the floors or who sing and dance with their eyes and hands raised to the heavens in worship of a god they neither know or understand, will bow down and worship THE God of the Bible, the Most High in the creation, ‘The Son of Man’ who evolves from the body of mankind.

It is in that thousand years of peace that all our resources will be used to prepare for the ultimate destruction of all physical life forms that remain on this planet. Knowing that which is to occur after the one thousand year Sabbath, when heavenly fire incinerate the surface of the earth, with the great wealth that will be paid in tribute by the nations of the world during that thousand year rule of our king and high priest, genetic banks of all physical life forms will be created, (The Ark) and sent to a place of safety in order that when the incinerated earth is once again able to sustain physical life forms, Plants will be planted, animals will be created anew, and when the system for the sustainability of mankind has been put in place, the Lord, our brother, king, and high priest will say, "And now, let us make man in our image and likeness." And a new and more, humble Race of men will people this earth.

"Under the guidance of Jupiter (Planet) man prepares, by means of religious exercises, for the journey to the life beyond, and he attains rest under the influence of Saturn." (Basra Encyclopedia)- De Boer, Philosophy in Islam, p 88.

The water ocean on Enceladus, a moon that orbits the planet Saturn, is about 6 miles (10 kilometers) deep and lies beneath a shell of ice 19 to 25 miles (30 to 40 km) thick, researchers said. Further, it's in direct contact with a rocky seafloor, theoretically making possible all kinds of complex chemical reactions — such as, perhaps, the kind that led to the rise of life on Earth.

"The world being melted and re-entered into the bosom of Jupiter, this God continues for some time totally concentered in himself: . . . afterwards we see a new world spring from him, perfect in all its parts; animals are produced anew; an innocent race of man is formed under more favourable auspices, in order to people this earth." " Seneca, Epist, 9, and Qucest. Nat. L. 3, c, ult.

It was the prophet Zephaniah through whom the Lord said; "I am going to destroy everything 'ON EARTH', All human beings and animals, birds and fish. I will bring about the downfall of the wicked. I will destroy mankind and no survivors will be left. I the Lord have spoken. . . . . . . . . "On the day when the Lord shows his fury, not even all their gold and silver will save them. The whole 'EARTH' will be destroyed by the fire of his anger. He will put an end----a sudden end----to everyone who lives 'ON EARTH.

 

[The Anointed]

Continued from post #110.

One of the worst tribulations that the earth has suffered in recent times occurred some 75,000 years ago with the Toba super eruption, which was a super volcanic eruption that occurred sometime between 69,000 and 77,000 years ago at Lake Toba (Sumatra Indonesia). It is recognised as one of earth’s largest eruptions.

Thousands of cubic kilometres of material would have been blasted out into the stratosphere blocking out the light all over the world, turning the sun and moon into huge blood red orbs and causing the earth’s temperature to drop some 21% and it would possibly have been a thousand years, before rainbows could form in our atmosphere again.

The related catastrophe theory holds that this event plunged the planet into a 6 to 10 year volcanic winter and possibly an additional 1,000 year cooling episode. This change in temperature resulted in the world’s proto-human population being reduced to 10,000 or even a mere 1,000 breeding pairs, creating a bottleneck in human evolution.

Could an eruption such as this, be more of a blessing, than a curse, could a protective shield around the earth to protect us from increased heavenly radiation for a period of time, be established, to give us time to prepare for the ultimate end of all physical life forms that remain on this planet, and if so how?

The huge column of molten rock that feeds Yellowstone's "super volcano" dives deeper and fills a magma chamber 20 percent bigger than previous estimates, scientists say. The finding, based on the most detailed model yet of the region's geologic plumbing, suggests that Yellowstone's magma chamber contains even more fuel for a future "super eruption" than anyone had suspected.

The model shows that a 45-mile-wide (72-kilometer-wide) plume of hot, molten rock rises to feed the super volcano from at least 410 miles (660 kilometers) beneath Earth's surface. The deepest part of the plume actually sits beneath the town of Wisdom, Montana, about 150 miles (241 kilometers) from Yellowstone National Park, a steady flow of hot rock in Earth's upper mantle causes the plume to drift to the southeast, where it fills a magma chamber that sits just 3.7 to 10 miles (5.9 to 16 kilometers) beneath Yellowstone.

Other new data show that Yellowstone's magma chamber extends 13 miles (21 kilometers) farther to the northeast than previously thought. Scientists had already known that Yellowstone is a volcanic hot spot, and that within the past two million years, the region has seen three mammoth eruptions at intervals of about 600,000 years, and it is 640,000 years since it’s last eruption. Such events it is said, can produce at least 77 cubic miles (360 cubic kilometers) of basalt: enough to bury Washington, D.C., under nearly 7,200 feet (2,200 meters) of solidified lava.

The ground beneath Yellowstone is said to be 74cm higher today than it was in 1923, which indicates a massive swelling beneath the Park. Scientists believe that the reservoir of Magma is filling at an alarming rate and as that volcano erupts with an average cycle of 600,000 years and the last eruption was more than 640,000 years ago we are overdue for annihilation.

Forget about the death total within the immediate period of the explosive eruption, but just imagine what happens to our communication and ground and air transport systems, fuel supplies, power grids, atomic power stations spewing out radiation into the atmosphere, etc, etc.

What did Jesus say concerning that day? "Pray that your flight be not in winter, (The nuclear/volcanic winter) and woe unto the women who are pregnant in those days, perhaps the evolutionary son of man, came from mutants that are to be born in those days.

Zechariah 14: 6; And it shall come to pass in that day, (The Lord’s Day of one thousand years) that the light shall not be clear or dark: and it shall be one day which shall be known to the Lord, not day, nor night: but it shall come to pass, that evening time it shall be light. On that day there will be neither sunlight nor cold, frosty darkness. On that day living water will flow out from Jerusalem, half of it east to the Dead Sea and half of it west to the Mediterranean Sea, in summer and in winter. The LORD will be king over the whole earth. On that day there will be one LORD, and his name the only name.

Could the Great prophesied war in the Middle East be the trigger to set off the volcano beneath Yellowstone, bringing in a thousand- year period of twilight in which rainbows can't form in our atmosphere? And when, according to Isaiah 65: 20, "If one were to die during that period at the age of 100, they would be but a child.

In that day says Isaiah, the lion will lay down with the sheep and all people will live out their full life span. A hundred-year old person will be considered to be but a child etc.

Revelation 20: 7-9: It is after the thousand year rule of Christ has ended (How long after? Nobody knows.) that the last trumpet will sound and the fire from heaven descends and incinerates the surface of this planet as prophesied by Zephaniah.

But we shall not all fall asleep in death, for at the sound of the Last trumpet, we shall be changed in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, from bodies of corruptible matter into glorious bodies of brilliant and blinding light.

In dream I saw the heavens ablaze with balls of fire
Huge hailstones that were burning and streaking down the skies
The earth was clothed in purples, dark orange, and deep blue
Like a swaddling cloth surrounding us that hid the stars from veiw
Dark clouds rose from the mountain peaks, earth's veins were opened wide
Through which her inner blood spewed forth in streams of living fire
Whole continents, they heaved and tossed, waves rippled through the ground
In all the earth, no hiding place of safety could be found
The oceans boiled, they foamed and rose destroying cities on their shores
All the river dams were busted, valley towns were seen no more
The power stations of the earth--all were melted down
A few survivors of the human race were all that could be found
And then I saw the winter, a winter so severe
It lasted not a few short months, but many, many, years
And the women who were pregnant, Ahh, the children that they bore
Grotesque and hideous malformations, I pray to see that sight no more
Then when the winter lifted and the crops began to grow
A strange and eerie world emerged from the destruction and the snow
A world with neither day nor night where rainbows couldn't form
In the atmosphere above the earth, and yet the air was strangely warm
A thousand years of twilight and through that swaddling band on high
Three blood red giants were blazing through a hazed and orange sky
The sun and moon had turned to blood, but far brighter than the moon
Was Jupiter, that heavenly light, which in time would spell man's doom...….The Anointed.

 

[3rdAngel]

You say that no one is under the law if they have repented and been forgiven of their sins. If, as you say, they are no longer under the law, are you suggesting that they can then return to breaking the letter of the law with impunity?

Two men watch as a young man hides from a pursuing mob of thugs with baseball bats, when asked if they knew where the young man was, one man lies in order to save the young man, the other who fears the loss of his immortal soul refuses to lie and reveals his hiding place, after which, he is brutally bashed almost to the point of death. Which of these two do you believe God would declare as acting righteously?

Total obedience to the letter of the law can only bring death. It is the spirit of the law which we must follow.

I tell you now that you can lie...There is a time to steal
There is a time to disobey....There is a time to kill
There is a work that must be done upon the Sabbath day
No one who understands the Lord would teach another way
For the Spirit judges not on what you do,
The heart and soul of man he searches through
It's the reason.... why the deeds of man are done
This is what the Lord God judges on.

The weekly Sabbath, said Paul, in Colossians 2: 17; was but a shadow of the reality in the future, which is the Great Sabbath, the Lords day of one thousand years.

From the Book of Jubilees 4: 30; "And He (Adam) lacked seventy years of one thousand years; for one thousand years are as one day in the testimony of the heavens and therefore was it written concerning the tree of knowledge: "On the day thou eat thereof ye shall die." For this reason, Adam did not complete the years of that first day; for He died during it." Adam died at the age of 930 in the first day.

We are now approaching the close of the 6th day and the beginning of the 7th, which is the great Sabbath, “The Day of The Lord” the seventh period of one thousand years from the day that Adam ate of the forbidden fruit and died in that first day at the age of 930, which day begins after the greatest period of tribulation that this world has ever seen.

This coming period of tribulation is said to be so severe, that if it were not for the intervention of the Lord, no flesh would survive. We are almost at the close of the sixth day, and soon comes the great tribulation, which is the war to end all wars, after which the Sabbath will dawn, but when? Nobody knows the exact date.

Zechariah 14: The Lord will gather all the nations together to make war on Jerusalem. The city will be taken, the houses Looted, and the women raped. Half the people will go into exile, but the rest of them will not be taken away from the city. Then the Lord will go out and fight against those nations, as he has fought in times Past. (This has not yet happened)

Numbers 24: 17, "A king, like a bright star, will arise in that Nation. Like a comet he will come from Israel. He will strike the leaders of Moab and beat down all the people of Seth. He will conquer his enemies in Edom and make their land his property. While Israel continues victorious. The Nation of Israel will trample them down and wipe out the last survivors." Zechariah 12: 10; "They will look upon me and see the one who they pierced, and they shall mourn for him as one mourns for an only child etc."

Isaiah 63: 1-6, "Who is this coming from the city of Bozrah in Edom? Who is this so splendidly dressed in red, marching along in power and strength?" It is the Lord, powerful to save, coming to announce his victory. "Why is his clothing so red, like that of a man who tramples grapes to make wine?" . . . . . The Lord answers, "I have trampled the nations like grapes and no one came to help me. I trampled them in my anger, and their blood has stained all my clothing. I DECIDED THAT THE TIME TO SAVE MY PEOPLE HAD COME; it was time to punish their enemies.

I was amazed when I looked and saw that there was no one to help me. But my anger made me strong, and I won the victory myself. In my anger I trampled whole nations and shattered them, I poured out their life’s blood on the earth."

See Zechariah 14. The Lord will come to fight for his people Israel as he has fought in times past and from within the inner most sanctuary of his tabernacle (The kingdom of God is within you) which temporary tabernacle is the body of mankind, he will fight the enemies of Israel; those Nations who surround Jerusalem in their attempt to drive God's chosen people into the sea.

The African tectonic plate in its northern migration, grinds against the Arabian plate in a line that runs up through the Red Sea and along the Jordon valley beneath the Mount of Olives.

Zechariah 14: 3-4; Then the Lord will go out and fight for his people as he has fought in times past. At that time, he will stand on the Mount of Olives, to the east of Jerusalem. Then the Mount of Olives will be split in two, from east to west by a large valley. Half of the mountain (On the African plate) will move northward, and half of it (On the Arabian plate) will move southward.

Could the violent activity around the earth at this time, be the trigger that will cause the super volcano beneath Yellow stone to erupt, enveloping the planet in a cloud of debris? And that day shall be neither day nor night, but a perpetual twilight.

Zechariah 14: 13; Then the Lord will throw those nations that surround Jerusalem, into a state of total confusion, and the weapons of destruction with which they would destroy Israel, he will cause them to turn upon their own allies and they shall suffer a terrible disease, the soft tissue such as their eyes and tongues will melt in their sockets, and their radiated flesh, cooked to the bone, will slide from their bodies while still standing. Then all the surviving Nations will send their representatives each year to Jerusalem in the land of Israel, to worship and pay tribute to the Lord who will rule the whole world with justice for a thousand years, and woe betide those who refuse to do so.

Then all the godless people of this world, and all those, who in their Synagogues, Mosques, and Cathedrals of stone, marble, or crystal, who prostate themselves on the floors or who sing and dance with their eyes and hands raised to the heavens in worship of a god they neither know or understand, will bow down and worship THE God of the Bible, the Most High in the creation, ‘The Son of Man’ who evolves from the body of mankind.

It is in that thousand years of peace that all our resources will be used to prepare for the ultimate destruction of all physical life forms that remain on this planet. Knowing that which is to occur after the one thousand year Sabbath, when heavenly fire incinerate the surface of the earth, with the great wealth that will be paid in tribute by the nations of the world during that thousand year rule of our king and high priest, genetic banks of all physical life forms will be created, (The Ark) and sent to a place of safety in order that when the incinerated earth is once again able to sustain physical life forms, Plants will be planted, animals will be created anew, and when the system for the sustainability of mankind has been put in place, the Lord, our brother, king, and high priest will say, "And now, let us make man in our image and likeness." And a new and more, humble Race of men will people this earth.

"Under the guidance of Jupiter (Planet) man prepares, by means of religious exercises, for the journey to the life beyond, and he attains rest under the influence of Saturn." (Basra Encyclopedia)- De Boer, Philosophy in Islam, p 88.

The water ocean on Enceladus, a moon that orbits the planet Saturn, is about 6 miles (10 kilometers) deep and lies beneath a shell of ice 19 to 25 miles (30 to 40 km) thick, researchers said. Further, it's in direct contact with a rocky seafloor, theoretically making possible all kinds of complex chemical reactions — such as, perhaps, the kind that led to the rise of life on Earth.

"The world being melted and re-entered into the bosom of Jupiter, this God continues for some time totally concentered in himself: . . . afterwards we see a new world spring from him, perfect in all its parts; animals are produced anew; an innocent race of man is formed under more favourable auspices, in order to people this earth." " Seneca, Epist, 9, and Qucest. Nat. L. 3, c, ult.

It was the prophet Zephaniah through whom the Lord said; "I am going to destroy everything 'ON EARTH', All human beings and animals, birds and fish. I will bring about the downfall of the wicked. I will destroy mankind and no survivors will be left. I the Lord have spoken. . . . . . . . . "On the day when the Lord shows his fury, not even all their gold and silver will save them. The whole 'EARTH' will be destroyed by the fire of his anger. He will put an end----a sudden end----to everyone who lives 'ON EARTH.

Brother from reading your post here it seems you have still not read the OP and the scriptures provided there.

Can I suggest you read post # 6; posts # 7; posts # 8; posts # 9 and posts # 10 linked from the OP as they prove that Colossians 2:11-17 is not talking about anyone of God's 10 Commandments but the shadow laws from the Mosaic book of the old covenant that pointed to JESUS and God's plan of salvation in the new covenant and feast days. This includes all the "shadow sabbaths" connected to the annual feast days.

According to God's Word in the new covenant God's LAW (10 commandments) gives us the knowledge of what sin is when broken *Romans 3:20 and if we break any one of them we stand guilty before God of sin *James 2:10-11. . You say We are only "under the law" if we are guilty before God of breaking the law *Romans 3:19-20.

It is impossible for God's 4th commandment "seventh day" weekly sabbath to be a shadow of anything as it was part of a "finished work" of creation where God rested after he created all things in heaven and earth, set apart the "seventh day" from all the other days of the week, "blessed" the seventh day and made the seventh day a "holy day for all mankind *Genesis 2:1-3; Mark 2:27. The reason why God's 4th commandment "seventh day sabbath" is "impossible" to be a "shadow law" was because there was no sin, and mankind was in perfect harmony with God and there was no plan of salvation given to mankind from which the shadow laws of Moses are given.

May God bless you as you seek him through his Word.

 

[3rdAngel]

Continued from post #110.

In dream I saw the heavens ablaze with balls of fire
Huge hailstones that were burning and streaking down the skies
The earth was clothed in purples, dark orange, and deep blue
Like a swaddling cloth surrounding us that hid the stars from veiw
Dark clouds rose from the mountain peaks, earth's veins were opened wide
Through which her inner blood spewed forth in streams of living fire
Whole continents, they heaved and tossed, waves rippled through the ground
In all the earth, no hiding place of safety could be found
The oceans boiled, they foamed and rose destroying cities on their shores
All the river dams were busted, valley towns were seen no more
The power stations of the earth--all were melted down
A few survivors of the human race were all that could be found
And then I saw the winter, a winter so severe
It lasted not a few short months, but many, many, years
And the women who were pregnant, Ahh, the children that they bore
Grotesque and hideous malformations, I pray to see that sight no more
Then when the winter lifted and the crops began to grow
A strange and eerie world emerged from the destruction and the snow
A world with neither day nor night where rainbows couldn't form
In the atmosphere above the earth, and yet the air was strangely warm
A thousand years of twilight and through that swaddling band on high
Three blood red giants were blazing through a hazed and orange sky
The sun and moon had turned to blood, but far brighter than the moon
Was Jupiter, that heavenly light, which in time would spell man's doom...….The Anointed.

"DITTO" see previous post. You may want to visit here click me.

God bless

 

[PruePhillip]

Brother from reading your post here it seems you have still not read the OP and the scriptures provided there.

Can I suggest you read post # 6; posts # 7; posts # 8; posts # 9 and posts # 10 linked from the OP as they prove that Colossians 2:11-17 is not talking about anyone of God's 10 Commandments but the shadow laws from the Mosaic book of the old covenant that pointed to JESUS and God's plan of salvation in the new covenant and feast days. This includes all the "shadow sabbaths" connected to the annual feast days.

According to God's Word in the new covenant God's LAW (10 commandments) gives us the knowledge of what sin is when broken *Romans 3:20 and if we break any one of them we stand guilty before God of sin *James 2:10-11. . You say We are only "under the law" if we are guilty before God of breaking the law *Romans 3:19-20.

It is impossible for God's 4th commandment "seventh day" weekly sabbath to be a shadow of anything as it was part of a "finished work" of creation where God rested after he created all things in heaven and earth, set apart the "seventh day" from all the other days of the week, "blessed" the seventh day and made the seventh day a "holy day for all mankind *Genesis 2:1-3; Mark 2:27. The reason why God's 4th commandment "seventh day sabbath" is "impossible" to be a "shadow law" was because there was no sin, and mankind was in perfect harmony with God and there was no plan of salvation given to mankind from which the shadow laws of Moses are given.

May God bless you as you seek him through his Word.

So, are you saying that the church Jesus established is a false church
because it observed the Sunday as the new "Lord's Day?"

 

[Crosstian]

on one or three verse
than send of too many verses
when most of it are just duds

What you really mean is facts don't matter, only your meme-ology.

 

[Crosstian]

more to come...

MJFlores isn't interested 3rdAngel. It is quite obvious. Such refuses to read our responses, and expects us to read theirs (though I have, at least until this point, at least until I see a change). Time is better spent with others who will read our responses and engage.

 

[The Anointed]

So, are you saying that the church Jesus established is a false church
because it observed the Sunday as the new "Lord's Day?"

No! The church in Jerusalem which Jesus established, and of which James the brother of Jesus was the first to sit on the episcopal throne of that church, was not the church that the Lord God our saviour, through his prophet Zechariah, prophesied that he would raise up in the land after HE, who had filled the man Jesus with his spirit and dwelt among man, was paid his majestic wage of thirty pieces of Silver, that church which was established in the 4th century, the head of which claims to be the shepherd of God's people.

Zechariah 11:12-17 New King James Version (NKJV)

12 Then I said to them, “If it is agreeable to you, give me my wages; and if not, refrain.” So they weighed out for my wages thirty pieces of silver.

13 And the Lord said to me, “Throw it to the potter”—that princely price they set on me. So I took the thirty pieces of silver and threw them into the house of the Lord for the potter. 14 Then I cut in two my other staff, Bonds, that I might break the brotherhood between Judah and Israel.

15 And the Lord said to me, “Next, take for yourself the implements of a foolish shepherd. 16 For indeed I will raise up a shepherd in the land who will not care for those who are cut off, nor seek the young, nor heal those that are broken, nor feed those that still stand. But he will eat the flesh of the fat and tear their hooves in pieces.

17 “Woe to the worthless shepherd,
Who leaves the flock!
A sword shall be against his arm
And against his right eye;
His arm shall completely wither,
And his right eye shall be totally blinded.”


Oh you shepherd of the darkness, who claim God sent you out

And even though we know that’s true, that fact I wouldn’t flout

For God commanded Zechariah, “Throw my wages ‘cross the floor,

Those thirty bits of silver, for I’ll guide this flock no more

A worthless shepherd now I’ll raise to guide this stubborn flock

And he will be a useless one, of him I’ll take no stock

For he’ll not feed my little ones, nor search for them that’s lost

But he eats the meat of the fattest sheep. And their hooves? He tears them off

That worthless shepherd, he is doomed for abandoning my flock

His power, will I destroy by war, his arm will wither dry, then drop

And his right eye will I turn Blind, that’s why he’s never seen

The passage where I speak of him, Zechariah eleven—twelve to seventeen.


There is but one church, which claims to be the Universal church, the head of which church claims to be the shepherd of Gods people, who was raised up after the Lord, who revealed himself through his obedient earthly host body, ‘The Man Jesus,’ was paid the majestic wage of thirty pieces of silver, which was cast to the potter in the house of the Lord.

“Jesus The Evidence,” by Ian Wilson. P. 144. The Middle Ages, for the Jews at least, began with the advent to power of Constantine the Great. He was the first Roman Emperor to issue laws which radically limited the rights of the Jews as citizens’ of the Roman Empire, a right conferred on them by Caracalla in 212. As Constantine’s church grew in power it influenced the emperors to limit further the civil and political rights of the Jews.

But if times were again difficult for the Jews, for the Christian Gnostics and other fringe groups they were impossible. The books of Arius and his sympathizers were ordered to be burnt, and a reign of terror proclaimed for all those who did not conform with the new official Christian line.

:Understand now by this present statute, Novatians, Valentinians, Marcionites, Paulinians, you who are called Cataphrygians. . . . with what a tissue of lies and vanities, with what destructive and venomous errors, your doctrines are inextricably woven! We give you warning . . . .Let none of you presume, from this time forward, to meet in congregations. To prevent this, we command that you be deprived of all the houses in which you have been accustomed to meet . . . . and that these house should be handed over immediately to the catholic/ i.e. universal church.

Within a generation, hardly leaving a trace of their existence for posterity, the great majority of these groups simply died away as successive Christian emperors reiterated the policies that Constantine had pursued.

 

[Crosstian]

The fundamental FACT in all this is that the Apostolic Church treated Sunday
as the New Sabbath day. This statement is strictly historical.

Your statement is historically inaccurate:

Watch the ones inbetween also.

If you do not desire to watch the ones in between, or even these, I can provide the historical citations for you:

"... But keep the Sabbath ... because the former is the memorial of the creation ... But there is one only Sabbath to be observed by you in the whole year, which is that of our Lord’s burial, on which men ought to keep a fast, but not a festival. ..." - Apostolic Constitutions, Book VII (7), section XXIII (23), by Philip Schaff; ANF07. Fathers of the Third and Fourth Centuries: Lactantius, Venantius, Asterius, Victorinus, Dionysius, Apostolic Teaching and Constitutions, Homily, and Liturgies; page 692 (PDF 712) - http://www.documentacatholicaomnia....ers_Of_The_Third_And_Fourth_Centuries,_EN.pdf

"... The people of Constantinople, and of several other cities, assemble together on the sabbath, as well as on the next day; which custom is never observed at Rome, or at Alexandria. There are several cities and villages in Egypt where, contrary to the usages established elsewhere, the people meet together on sabbath evenings; and although they have dined previosuly, partake of the mysteries. ..." - Salaminius Hermias Sozomenus (aka: "Sozomen"); The Ecclesiastical History of Sozomen, comprising a History of the Church, from A.D. 324 to A.D. 440; translated from the Greek: without a memoir of the Author; also The Ecclesiastical History of Philostorgus, as epitomised by Photius, Patriarch of Constantinople.; translated by Edward Walford, M.A.; late scholar of Balliol College, Oxford.; London: Henry G. Bohn, York Street, Covent Garden. MDCCCLV (1855). page 344 (PDF 364) - The Ecclesiastical History Of Sozomen 1855

See also Salaminius Hermias Sozomenus (aka: "Sozomen"); The Ecclesiastical History of Sozomen, comprising a History of the Church, from A.D. 323 to A.D. 425., translated from the Greek.; Revised by Chester D. Hartranft, Hartford Theological Seminary. (page 639-640 (PDF 315-316)) - http://www.documentacatholicaomnia....,_The_Ecclesiastical_History_[Schaff],_EN.pdf

"... For although almost all churches throughout the world celebrate the sacred mysteries on the sabbath of every week, [1] yet the Christians of Alexandria and at Rome, on account of some ancient tradition, refuse to do this. The Egyptians in the neighbourhood of Alexandria, and the inhabitants of Thebais, hold their religious meetings on the sabbath ..." - Socrates Scholasticus; The Ecclesiastical History of Socrates, surnamed Scholasticus, or the Advocate., comprising a History of the Church in Seven Books, from the accession of Constantine, A.D. 305, to the 38th Year of Theodosius II., including A period of 140 years.; translated from the Greek: with some account of the Author, and notes selected from Valesius.; London: Henry G. Bohn, York Street, Covent Garden. MDCCCLIII (1853).; page 289-290 (PDF 313-314) - The Ecclesiastical History of Socrates, Surnamed Scholasticus, Or the Advocate: Comprising a ...
The Ecclesiastical History of Socrates, Surnamed Scholasticus, Or the Advocate: Comprising a ...

See also Socrates Scholasticus - Historia ecclesiastica - The Ecclesiastical History of Socrates Scholasticus., Revised, with Notes, byThe Rev. A.C. Zenos, D.D.; Professor of New TEstament exegesis in the theological seminary at Hartford, Conn.; page 244 (PDF 244) - http://www.documentacatholicaomnia.eu/03d/0380-0440,_Socrates_Scholasticus,_Historia_ecclesiastica_[Schaff],_EN.pdf

Apostolic Constitutions:

“... THE RECITAL OF THE TEN COMMANDMENTS, AND AFTER WHAT MANNER THEY DO HERE PRESCRIBE TO US.

XXXVI. Have before thine eyes the fear of God, and always remember the ten commandments of God,—to love the one and only Lord God with all thy strength; to give no heed to idols, or any other beings, as being lifeless gods, or irrational beings or dæmons. Consider the manifold workmanship of God, which received its beginning through Christ. Thou shalt observe the Sabbath,on account of Him who ceased from His work of creation, but ceased not from His work of providence: it is a rest for meditation of the law, not for idleness of the hands. Reject every unlawful lust, everything destructive to men, and all anger. Honour thy parents, as the authors of thy being. Love thy neighbour as thyself. Communicate the necessaries of life to the needy. Avoid swearing falsely, and swearing often, and in vain; for thou shalt not be held guiltless. Do not appear before the priests empty, and offer thy free-will offerings continually. Moreover, do not leave the church of Christ; but go thither in the morning before all thy work, and again meet there in the evening, to return thanks to God that He has preserved thy life. Be diligent, and constant, and laborious in thy calling. Offer to the Lord thy free-will offerings; for says He, “Honour the Lord with the fruit of thy honest labours.” [2754] If thou art not able to cast anything considerable into the Corban, [2755] yet at least bestow upon the strangers one, or two, or five mites. “Lay up to thyself heavenly treasure, which neither the moth nor thieves can destroy.” [2756] And in doing this, do not judge thy bishop, or any of thy neighbours among the laity; for if thou judge thy brother, thou becomest a judge, without being constituted such by anybody, for the priests are only entrusted with the power of judging. For to them it is said, “Judge righteous judgment;” [2757] and again “Approve yourselves to be exact money-changers.” [2758] For to you this is not entrusted; for, on the contrary, it is said to those who are not of the dignity of magistrates or ministers: “Judge not, and ye shall not be judged.” [2759] ...” - Apostolic Constitutions, Book VII (7), Chapter XIV (14) - Of the First and Last Times of the World, by Philip Schaff; ANF07. Fathers of the Third and Fourth Centuries: Lactantius, Venantius, Asterius, Victorinus, Dionysius, Apostolic Teaching and Constitutions, Homily, and Liturgies; pages 317-318 (PDF 337-338) - http://www.documentacatholicaomnia....ers_Of_The_Third_And_Fourth_Centuries,_EN.pdf

See also - The work claiming to be the constitutions of the holy Apostles, including the canons : Whiston's version, revised from the Greek : with a prize esssay, at the University of Bonn, upon their origin and contents [by O.C. Krabbe]

 

[Crosstian]

The fundamental FACT in all this is that the Apostolic Church treated Sunday
as the New Sabbath day. This statement is strictly historical.

Further:

Latin:

"... Similiter et feriae a fando dicuntur, ob quam causam Silvester papa primus apud Romanos constituit ut dierum nomina quae antea secundum nomina deorum suorum vocabant, id est, Solis, Lunae, Martis, Mercurii, Veneris, Saturni, feria deinceps vocarent, id est, prima feria, secunda feria, tertia feria, quarta feria, quinta feria, sexta feria, quia in principio Genesis scriptum est quod Deus per singulos dies dixerit : prima, Fiat Lux; secunda, Fiat firmamentum; tertia, Producat terra herbam virentem, similiter, etc. Sabbatum autem antiquo legis vocabulo vocare praecepit, et primam feriam diem Dominicam, eo quod Dominus in illa resurrexit. Statuit autem idem papa ut otium sabbati magis in diem Dominicam transferretur, ut ea die a terrenis operibus ad laudandum Deum vacaremus, justa illud quod scriptum est : Vacate et videte, quoniam ego sum Deus (Psal. XLV). ..." - Beati Rabani Mauri, Fuldensis Abbatis et Moguntini Archiepiscopi, de Clericorum Institutione, ad Heistulphum Archiepiscopum; Libri Tres. (Anno 819.) Ad Fratres Fuldenses Epigramma Ejusdem; Liber Secundus, Caput XLVI. Column 361 (Left; PDF page 35) - http://www.documentacatholicaomnia....eistulphum_Archiepiscopum_Libri_Tres,_MLT.pdf

Translated English:

"... Pope Sylvester first among the Romans ordered that the names of the days [of the week], which they previously called after the name of their gods, that is, [the day] of the Sun, [the day] of the Moon, [the day] of Mars, [the day] of Mercury, [the day] of Jupiter, [the day] of Venus, [the day] of Saturn, they should call feriae thereafter, that is the first feria, the second feria, the third feria, the fourth feria, the fifth feria, the sixth feria, because that in the beginning of Genesis it is written that God said concerning each day: on the first, "Let there be light:; on the second, "Let there be a firmament"; on the third, "Let the earth bring forth verdure"; etc. But he [Sylvester] ordered [them] to call the Sabbath by the ancient term of the law, [to call] the first feria the [counterfeit] "Lord's day," because on it the Lord rose [from the dead], Moreover, the same pope decreed that the rest of the Sabbath should be transferred rather to the [counterfeit] Lord's day [Sunday], in order that on that day we should rest from worldly works for the praise of God.7 ..." - Exactly Which Pope Changed The Sabbath To Sunday?

"Now in the matter of Sabbath observance the Protestant rule of Faith is utterly unable to explain the substitution of the Christian Sunday for the Jewish Saturday. It has been changed. The Bible still teaches that the Sabbath or Saturday should be kept holy. There is no authority in the New Testament for the substitution of Sunday for Saturday. Surely it is an important matter. It stands there in the Bible as one of the Ten Commandments of God. There is no authority in the Bible for abrogating this Commandment, or for transferring its observance to another day of the week. For Catholics it is not the slightest difficulty. "All power is given Me in heaven and on earth; as the Father sent Me so I also send you," said our Divine Lord in giving His tremendous commission to His Apostles. "He that heareth you heareth Me." We have in the authoritative voice of the Church the voice of Christ Himself. The Church is above the Bible; and this transference of Sabbath observance to Sunday is proof positive of that fact. Deny the authority of the Church and you have no adequate or reasonable explanation or justification for the substitution of Sunday for Saturday in the Third - Protestant Fourth - Commandment of God." - Source: The Catholic Record, London, Ontario Canada, September 1, 1923.- see source from Liberty Magazine Volumes 16-20, all this, the Roman and Seventh Day Adventist, in a response to speech given by Baptist minister [Emmanuel Baptist Church, Toronto Canada] Rev. J. Marion Smith on the Sabbath/Sunday question [google books pagination 14-15] - Liberty

The Catholic Record, Sept. 1, 1923.

In Fact, Read Rome's Challenge, put out by Rome itself:

ROME'S CHALLENGE - WHY DO PROTESTANTS KEEP SUNDAY?

In the "Rome's Challenge" articles, we find such clearly overt and definite statements as these, "Examining the New Testament from cover to cover, critically, ..." and "He never once hinted at a desire to change it." ["He", refers to Jesus] and "Thus the Sabbath (Saturday) from Genesis to Revelation!!! Thus, it is impossible to find in the New Testament the slightest interference by the Saviour, or His Apostles, with the orginal Sabbath, but, on the contrary, an entire acquiesence in the original arrangment; nay a plenary endoresment by Him ...", etc.

Additional statements from Cardinal Gibbons in further material, such as found in "Faith of our Fathers" google books pagination 108, "The Church and the Bible"; "...is not every Christian obliged to to sanctify Sunday, and to abstain on that day from unnecessary servile work? Is not the observance of this law among the most prominent of our sacred duties? But you may read the Bible from Genesis to Revelation, and you will not find a single line authorizing the sanctification of Sunday. The Scriptures enforce the religious observance of Saturday, a day which we never sanctify." - Faith of Our Fathers 1877 and as such at the beginning in the Introduction it is clearly said, "...in which the doctrines of the Roman Catholic Church are expounded by one of her own sons."

“The [Catholic] Church took the pagan philosophy and made it the buckler of faith against the heathen. She took the pagan Roman Pantheon, temple of all gods, and made it sacred to all the martyrs; so it stands to this day. She took the pagan Sun day and made it the Christian Sunday. She took the pagan Easter [in honor of Ishtar] and made it the feast we celebrate during this season ...The sun was a foremost god with heathendom ...Hence the Church would seem to say, ‘Keep that old pagan name [Sunday]. It shall remain consecrated, sanctified.’ And thus the pagan Sunday, dedicated to Balder (Baal), became the Christian Sunday, sacred to Jesus.” - Paulist Fathers “Paschale Gaudium,” in The Catholic World, Volume LVIII October 1893 - , March 1894; page 809 - http://books.google.com/books?id=pg4XAQAAIAAJ&pg=PA809&dq=Keep+that+old+pagan+name&hl=en&sa=X&ei=HQrhT82BNMLI2gXT9KGuCw&ved=0CEYQ6AEwAw#v=onepage&q=Keep that old pagan name&f=false

 

[Crosstian]

So you are telling us
You should not worship God on a SUNDAY because it is a sin!

No. God is to be worshipped everyday. The argument is non-sequitur. What we have said is that the 7th day is the sabbath of the LORD and is the day of God's rest and no other day, and such is to be kept Holy according to the Commandment of God (Exodus 20:8-11). In fact, the sabbath commandment encompasses all 7 days:

Exo 20:8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
Exo 20:9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
Exo 20:10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:
Exo 20:11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

If you had read my previous reply in prayerful sincerity, you would have not said what you have, for you have already been answered on this, but instead of listening to one who came to you in love, you instead prefer your meme-ological religion, thinking it witty (it isn't). God is not mocked, you will reap what you sow, and always more than you sow, for that is the Law of sowing and reaping.

"... The body of believers may gather on any and every day with no injunction anywhere found in scripture against such, and in truth they met "daily", "continually", etc (Mat 26:55; Mar 14:49; Luk 22:53, 24:33,36; Acts 19:9) and likewise among the followers of Jesus Christ (Luk 24:51,53; Acts 1:3,9, 2:46-47, 5:42, 6:1, 16:5, 17:11,17; Heb 3:13, etc), but not every day is the sabbath of the LORD." - COL 2:16 And The Sabbath - Are You Being Told The Truth?