COL 2:16 And The Sabbath - Are You Being Told The Truth?

[The Anointed]

Continued from post #117.

“Jesus The Evidence,” by Ian Wilson. P. 144. The Middle Ages, for the Jews at least, began with the advent to power of Constantine the Great. He was the first Roman Emperor to issue laws which radically limited the rights of the Jews as citizens’ of the Roman Empire, a right conferred on them by Caracalla in 212. As Constantine’s church grew in power it influenced the emperors to limit further the civil and political rights of the Jews.

But if times were again difficult for the Jews, for the Christian Gnostics and other fringe groups they were impossible. The books of Arius and his sympathizers were ordered to be burnt, and a reign of terror proclaimed for all those who did not conform with the new official Christian line.

:Understand now by this present statute, Novatians, Valentinians, Marcionites, Paulinians, you who are called Cataphrygians. . . . with what a tissue of lies and vanities, with what destructive and venomous errors, your doctrines are inextricably woven! We give you warning . . . .Let none of you presume, from this time forward, to meet in congregations. To prevent this, we command that you be deprived of all the houses in which you have been accustomed to meet . . . . and that these house should be handed over immediately to the catholic/ i.e. universal church.

Within a generation, hardly leaving a trace of their existence for posterity, the great majority of these groups simply died away as successive Christian emperors reiterated the policies that Constantine had pursued.

 

[PruePhillip]

No! The church in Jerusalem which Jesus established, and of which James the brother of Jesus was the first to sit on the episcopal throne of that church, was not the church that the Lord God our saviour,
....
Understand now by this present statute, Novatians, Valentinians, Marcionites, Paulinians, you who are called Cataphrygians. . . . with what a tissue of lies and vanities, with what destructive and venomous errors, your doctrines are inextricably woven! We give you warning . . . .Let none of you presume, from this time forward, to meet in congregations. To prevent this, we command that you be deprived of all the houses in which you have been accustomed to meet . . . . and that these house should be handed over immediately to the catholic/ i.e. universal church.

Within a generation, hardly leaving a trace of their existence for posterity, the great majority of these groups simply died away as successive Christian emperors reiterated the policies that Constantine had pursued.

So.. you are saying that Jesus appeared to the wrong people, wrong church
after His resurrection? And you are saying that Paul wasn't a "chosen vessel";
Peter got it wrong; John erred and James didn't have a clue?

 

[PruePhillip]

Your statement is historically inaccurate:

Crosstian. I am going through these videos. I see them as intellectual trickery
and certainly hope they weren't a part of any church service. I would hate to
attend ANY church and hear about historic/archaeological studies of the bible.
Where is the spiritual food in that?

But using his logic "Where does it say?" you could use for many things Jesus
actually PERFORMED AS EXAMPLE. He didn't tell us not to observe the Passover
for instance, no, He showed us the new form of Christian service.
Where does it say we observe Easter or Christmas? Doesn't, many people who
speak like this guy are happy to observe them.

 

[Crosstian]

Gentiles were not added until later and the new covenant was in force. It was never a bad thing to observe the Law.....but Gentiles were not under any obligation to observe the Sabbath

Isaiah 56:1-8; John 10:16, and all of Acts, Hebrew 4, as I gave earlier states otherwise.

 

[Crosstian]

Supposing you are a nurse in the hospital and you are required to work on Saturdays

"Saturday" isn't technically the "Sabbath". The first is Roman time (midnight to midnight) and the Sabbath is scriptural time (even unto even). The two timeframes overlap, but are not technically the same.

As for the matter of 'work', there are three kinds in scripture:

[1] holy/faith - John 5:17; Exodus 20:8; Hebrews 4:11 "keep it holy", which doesn't transgress the commandment, and is in harmony with it, such as healing

[2] common/profane - Exodus 20:9, 'thy work' - like mowing the lawn

[3] wicked/carnal - 2 Timothy 4:18; James 3:16 - like murder, theft, etc

Therefore, a nurse who 'works' on sabbath, whether or not is a violation of the commandment would have to consider the context of the 'work', the situation, etc., and even the individual conscience of the matter. For instance changing out soiled bed sheets, or bringing comfort to those who are ill, that day is not profane, but a work of holiness and righteousness, of cleansing, which is in harmony with the commandment, as Jesus gave such examples of Healing upon the sabbath, for in order to heal, restoration of the human temple is involved. So, it will 'depend' situationally.

 

[Crosstian]

I would hate to
attend ANY church and hear about historic/archaeological studies of the bible.
Where is the spiritual food in that?

Well if you wanted a sermon, and spiritual food, here ya go:

 

[The Anointed]

So.. you are saying that Jesus appeared to the wrong people, wrong church
after His resurrection? And you are saying that Paul wasn't a "chosen vessel";
Peter got it wrong; John erred and James didn't have a clue?

Peter, Paul, James and John, all belonged to the church in Jerusalem that was established by Jesus.

And James was the first to sit on the Episcopal throne of that church, and was succeeded by Simeon of Cleophas after James the righteous was killed in 62 AD, at the hands of the same Sadducee sect that had his brother Jesus killed.

The Roman Church of Emperor Constantine, was the useless Shepherd that God raised up in the fourth century, which church has twisted, tortured, and corrupted the words of the Lord, even as far as teaching that Jesus was born of a perpetual virgin.

The apostles did not teach the false doctrine of the so-called non-biblical VIRGIN conception and birth, of Jesus by his mother Mary.

In the days of the Apostle Paul, the people were already beginning to fall away from the truth, and following another gospel that was not taught by the word of God or the apostles.

In his 2nd letter to the Corinthians 11: 4; Paul says, “You gladly tolerate anyone who comes to you and preaches a different Jesus, not the one we preached; and you accept a spirit (The Lie) and a gospel completely different from the spirit (Of Truth) and the gospel you received from us.”

So, what was that other gospel that was leading the people away from the truth and away from the Jesus as preached by the Apostles, to another false Jesus?

That gospel was the word of the anti-christ, that refused to acknowledge that Jesus had come as a human being, and instead, they believed that he was a spirit, whose humanlike body was able to pass through Mary’s Hymen without breaking it, and who, like some Hologram, would appear and disappear at will. Even in the later days of John, the false teaching that Jesus was not of the seed of Adam from which every human being who has, or ever will walk this earth, has descended, and had not come as a human being, but as a spiritual being, was already beginning to rear its ugly head, and concerning that evolving falsehood, John had this to say.

1st letter of John 4:1-3; “My dear friends, do not believe all who claim to have the spirit, (My words are spirit) but test them to find out if the spirit [teachings] they have come from God. For many false prophets have gone out everywhere. This is how you will be able to know if it is Gods spirit/word: anyone who acknowledges that Jesus came as a human being has the spirit who comes from God. But anyone who denies this about Jesus does not have the spirit from God. The spirit that he has is from the enemy of the anointed one, the Anti-christ etc.”

2nd letter of John verses 7-10; “Many deceivers have gone out all over the world, people who do not acknowledge that Jesus came as a human being. Such a person is a deceiver and an enemy of Christ.”

Where would one expect to find the teaching that Jesus was not a true human being, “Born of the seed of Adam” which has been spread ALL OVER THE WORLD.

In Alexandria, by the second century, ‘Docetism,’ the concept that Jesus had existed as a spirit rather than a human being, had all but theoretically been stamped out. But still, there persisted the belief that their Jesus, although seen as a sort of human being, did not have our normal bodily needs, such as eating, drinking and excretion, and Clement the bishop of Alexandria, wrote: “It would be ridiculous to imagine that the redeemer, in order to exist, had the usual needs of man. He only took food and ate it in order that we should not teach about him in a Docetic fashion.” Satan must have had some trouble trying to tempt this false Jesus of theirs into turning stones into bread.

Their Jesus was not the Jesus as taught by the apostles, but that other Jesus, taught by the Anti-Christ, who unlike we mere HUMAN BEINGS, did not need to eat, drink, or go to the toilet, as was taught by one of the great teachers that the authorities of Emperor Constantine’s universal church, used as one of their authorities when trying to defend their false doctrines.

Saint Clement of Alexandria, who was a saint in the Martyrology of the Roman universal church, in support of the great lie, speaks of the time that some imaginary midwife, who was supposed to be at the birth of Jesus, (Non-biblical) told some woman by the name Salome, that the mother was still a virgin after the birth and that her hymen was still intact, and that this supposed Salome, stuck her finger into the mother’s vagina to check, and her hand immediately withered up, but the baby Jesus reached out and touched her hand and healed it.

Clement was accepted as a saint in the universal church, which was established by Emperor Constantine, from a rag-tag group of insult hurling religious bodies, who called themselves christians. Eventually, sick to the stomach with their constant quarreling and abuse toward each other, Constantine summoned all the leaders of those groups to the first ever "World Council of churches," where, in 325 AD, some 300 years after the Apostolic Church of Jesus Christ had been firmly established in Jerusalem, the non-christian, and almost certainly theologically illiterate Constantine, established his universal church, which has nothing to do with the Jesus as taught by the apostles.

Down to the 17th century Clement was venerated as a saint. His name was to be found in the Martyrologies, and his feast fell on December 4. But when the Roman Martyrology was revised by Clement VIII (Pope from 1592 to 1605), his name was dropped from the calendar on the advice of his confessor, Cardinal Baronius. Pope Benedict XIV in 1748 maintained his predecessor's decision on the grounds that Clements life was little-known; that he had never obtained public cultus in the Church; and that some of his doctrines were, if not erroneous, at least highly suspect.

"ERRONEOUS--HIGHLY SUSPECT," they certainly got that right, but by then the false teaching of the so-called virgin birth had become firmly established, and now the minds of the poor deceived gullible are set as hard as concrete, and one would need a sledge hammer to crack them open and let the light of truth shine in.

 

[Crosstian]

not true MJ, everytime I make a statement in my posts it is supported by scripure proof directly after the statment is made.

And everytime MJFlores makes a statement it is supported by memes.

 

[Milton Platt]

What do you think is the meaning of COLOSSIANS 2:16-17?

Many people pull up COLOSSIANS 2:16 in an attempt to cherry pick scripture without considering

1. THE CHAPTER CONTEXT

2. THE WITHIN SCRIPTURE CONTEXT

3. THE GREEK WORD MEANINGS OF THE WITHIN SCRIPTURE CONTEXT

4. CONTEXT TO THE REST OF THE SCRIPTURE WITHIN ALL SCRIPTURE

In order to argue Sunday (first day of the week) is the new Christian Sabbath instead of God's seventh day sabbath which is God's 4th commandment of the 10 commandments.

In the days of JESUS and the Disciples their bible was the OLD TESTAMENT scriptures so everything that we have in the NEW TESTAMENT scriptures comes from the OLD TESTAMENT scriptures.

The point being made here is that much of the NEW TESTAMENT has direct links and is directly quoting OLD TESTAMENT scripture which with a prayerful study of God's Word can help us understand the meanings and context of what is being discussed in the NEW TESTAMENT which in many cases are a fulfillment of the OLD SHADOW laws from the MOSAIC BOOK of the OLD COVENANT *EXODUS 24:7.

I would like to propose an evaluation of COLOSSIANS 2:16-17 using all of the above applied to COLOSSIANS 2 for chapter context and in particular COLOSSIANS 2:16 for within scripture context linking the scritures from the OLD TESTAMENT that are being discussed here.

The reason being, many people try to simply use a single NEW TESTAMENT scripture (COLOSSIANS 2:16) which they pull out of the CHAPTER and the within SCRIPTURE CONTEXT and separate it from all the scriptures provided in God’s Word from which it is quoting to try and make it say things that it is not saying.

This is a discussion that I hope will encourage you and challenge you to dig deep into God's WORD, praying and asking JESUS to be your guide and teacher which he promises to do to all those who ask him and seek him to answer the question...

IS COLOSSIANS 2 SAYING THAT WE ARE NO LONGER TO KEEP GOD'S SABBATH?

I believe you all are my brothers and sisters and that God's people are in all churches living up to all the light that God has revealed to them. The hour is coming and now is however that God is calling his people wherever they may be OUT FROM FOLLOWING THE TEACHINGS AND TRADITIONS OF MEN back to the pure words of GOD alone. God is a Spirit and those who worship him must worship him in Spirit and in truth *JOHN 10:17; JOHN 4:23-24

This thread is to discuss what the context of Colossians 2:16-17 is discussing to determine the scripture applications. What are your thoughts?

May you receive God's WORD and be blessed.

If you aren't following the rest of Old Testament law, you shoudn't harp on others about the Sabbath. Just an atheist's point of view........

 

[Crosstian]

So, are you saying that the church Jesus established is a false church
because it observed the Sunday as the new "Lord's Day?"

The "Lord's day" according to scripture, is the 7th day, the sabbath day of the Lord.

Genesis 2:1-3 - 'the seventh day', 'God'
Exodus 16:3 - "to morrow [the seventh day] is the rest of the holy sabbath unto the LORD'
Exodus 16:25 - 'to day [the seventh day]; for to day is a sabbath unto the LORD: to day'
Exodus 20:8-11 - 'the sabbath day', 'the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God'
Exodus 31:15 - 'the seventh is the sabbath of rest, holy to the LORD ... the sabbath day'
Exodus 35:2 - 'the seventh day there shall be to you an holy day, a sabbath of rest to the LORD'
Leviticus 23:3 - 'the seventh day is the sabbath of rest, an holy convocation; ye shall do no work therein: it is the sabbath of the LORD'
Deuteronomy 5:14 - 'the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God'
Psalms 92:1 - 'A Psalm or Song for the sabbath day. It is a good thing to give thanks unto the LORD'
Isaiah 56:6 - 'Also the sons of the stranger, that join themselves to the LORD, to serve him, and to love the name of the LORD, to be his servants, every one that keepeth the sabbath from polluting it, and taketh hold of my covenant' (context new covenant)
Isaiah 58:13 - 'the sababth ... my [the LORD's] holy day ... the holy [day] of the Lord'
Isaiah 66:23 - 'one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD'
Jeremiah 17:21 - 'saith the LORD... on the sabbath day'
Matthew 12:8 - 'the Son of man is Lord even of the sabbath day'
Mark 2:28 - 'the Son of man is Lord even of the sabbath day'
Luke 6:5 - 'the Son of man is Lord also of the sabbath [day]'
Revelation 1:10 - 'the Lord's day'

The church which Jesus 'established' never kept the 'first [day] of the week' as Sabbath, and in fact, as already shown, every single 'first [day] of the week' text in the NT, demonstrates the perpetuity of the 7th day as the Sabbath, since the first [day] was simply a number pointing to that glorious culmination (see the koine Greek as I already cited - COL 2:16 And The Sabbath - Are You Being Told The Truth? ). It also didn't meet every first [day] of the week either. This may be shown from scripture if you will, just ask.

 

[Crosstian]

If you aren't following the rest of Old Testament law, you shoudn't harp on others about the Sabbath. Just an atheist's point of view........

All laws are to be followed:

Mat_5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

Mat_5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

Yet, there is a difference between the natural and the spiritual, as per:

1Co 15:46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.

Therefore, there is a difference in that, in how things are kept. Not in type, but in anti-type.

For instance:

Natural:

Gen 3:21 Unto Adam also and to his wife did the LORD God make coats of skins, and clothed them.

Rev 13:8 "... the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world."

Spiritual:

Joh_1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.
Joh_1:36 And looking upon Jesus as he walked, he saith, Behold the Lamb of God!

Natural:

Lev_21:9 And the daughter of any priest, if she profane herself by playing the whore, she profaneth her father: she shall be burnt with fire.

Spiritual:

Rev 17:1 And there came one of the seven angels which had the seven vials, and talked with me, saying unto me, Come hither; I will shew unto thee the judgment of the great whore that sitteth upon many waters:
Rev 17:16 And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the whore, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire.

So yes, everything is to be kept, but not of the natural, but of the spiritual, again, for instance:

Natural:

Lev 23:2 Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them, Concerning the feasts of the LORD, which ye shall proclaim to be holy convocations, even these are my feasts.

Spiritual:

1Co_5:8 Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness; but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth.

Natural:

Lev 23:5 In the fourteenth day of the first month at even is the LORD'S passover.

Spiritual:

1Co_5:7 Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us:

Natural:

Lev 23:10 Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them, When ye be come into the land which I give unto you, and shall reap the harvest thereof, then ye shall bring a sheaf of the firstfruits of your harvest unto the priest:

Spiritual:

1Co_15:20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.
1Co_15:23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

So, since October 22, 1844 (Daniel 8:13-14,26; Revelation 9:13-15, etc), is the Anti-Typical Day of Atonement.

I hope that was helpful and not overburdening in example.

 

[Milton Platt]

All laws are to be followed:

Mat_5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

Mat_5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

Yet, there is a difference between the natural and the spiritual, as per:

1Co 15:46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.

Therefore, there is a difference in that, in how things are kept. Not in type, but in anti-type.

For instance:

Natural:

Lev_21:9 And the daughter of any priest, if she profane herself by playing the whore, she profaneth her father: she shall be burnt with fire.

Spiritual:

Rev 17:1 And there came one of the seven angels which had the seven vials, and talked with me, saying unto me, Come hither; I will shew unto thee the judgment of the great whore that sitteth upon many waters:
Rev 17:16 And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the whore, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire.

So yes, everything is to be kept, but not of the natural, but of the spiritual, again, for instance:

Natural:

Lev 23:2 Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them, Concerning the feasts of the LORD, which ye shall proclaim to be holy convocations, even these are my feasts.

Spiritual:

1Co_5:8 Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness; but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth.

Natural:

Lev 23:5 In the fourteenth day of the first month at even is the LORD'S passover.

Spiritual:

1Co_5:7 Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us:

Natural:

Lev 23:10 Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them, When ye be come into the land which I give unto you, and shall reap the harvest thereof, then ye shall bring a sheaf of the firstfruits of your harvest unto the priest:

Spiritual:

1Co_15:20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.
1Co_15:23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

So, since October 22, 1844 (Daniel 8:13-14,26; Revelation 9:13-15, etc), is the Anti-Typical Day of Atonement.

I hope that was helpful and not overburdening in example.

No problem. so you do not eat shellfish? You do not eat pork? You do not mix wool and cotton in your clothing? You leave the land fallow every 7th year? You force women to live outside your town when menstruating? You stone people for adultery? You buy your slaves from the nations surrounding you and are free to beat them as long as they don't die within a couple of days?

 

[MJFlores]

"Saturday" isn't technically the "Sabbath". The first is Roman time (midnight to midnight) and the Sabbath is scriptural time (even unto even). The two timeframes overlap, but are not technically the same.

As for the matter of 'work', there are three kinds in scripture:

[1] holy/faith - John 5:17; Exodus 20:8; Hebrews 4:11 "keep it holy", which doesn't transgress the commandment, and is in harmony with it, such as healing

The thing about the Sabbath is it is an OLD testament commandment.

Is it for all people to follow?

Exodus 31:13 New International Version (NIV)
“Say to the Israelites, ‘You must observe my Sabbaths. This will be a sign between me and you for the generations to come, so you may know that I am the Lord, who makes you holy.

The term Israelite is the English name for the descendants of the biblical patriarch Jacob in ancient times, which is derived from the Greek Ἰσραηλῖται, which was used to translate the Biblical Hebrew term b'nei yisrael, יִשְׂרָאֵל as either "sons of Israel" or "children of Israel". Languages spoken: Hebrew language

Exodus 31:16 New International Version (NIV)
The Israelites are to observe the Sabbath, celebrating it for the generations to come as a lasting covenant.

Why not? But the problem is you have to be an Israelite to be counted and valid.

Leviticus 23:24 New International Version (NIV)
“Say to the Israelites: ‘On the first day of the seventh month you are to have a day of sabbath rest, a sacred assembly commemorated with trumpet blasts.

What do you call a person who imitates another?

And everytime MJFlores makes a statement it is supported by memes.

Memes is my first name and

 

[PruePhillip]

The "Lord's day" according to scripture, is the 7th day, the sabbath day of the Lord.

Genesis 2:1-3 - 'the seventh day', 'God'
Exodus 16:3 - "to morrow [the seventh day] is the rest of the holy sabbath unto the LORD'
Exodus 16:25 - 'to day [the seventh day]; for to day is a sabbath unto the LORD: to day'
Exodus 20:8-11 - 'the sabbath day', 'the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God'
Exodus 31:15 - 'the seventh is the sabbath of rest, holy to the LORD ... the sabbath day'
Exodus 35:2 - 'the seventh day there shall be to you an holy day, a sabbath of rest to the LORD'
Leviticus 23:3 - 'the seventh day is the sabbath of rest, an holy convocation; ye shall do no work therein: it is the sabbath of the LORD'
Deuteronomy 5:14 - 'the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God'
Psalms 92:1 - 'A Psalm or Song for the sabbath day. It is a good thing to give thanks unto the LORD'
Isaiah 56:6 - 'Also the sons of the stranger, that join themselves to the LORD, to serve him, and to love the name of the LORD, to be his servants, every one that keepeth the sabbath from polluting it, and taketh hold of my covenant' (context new covenant)
Isaiah 58:13 - 'the sababth ... my [the LORD's] holy day ... the holy [day] of the Lord'
Isaiah 66:23 - 'one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD'
Jeremiah 17:21 - 'saith the LORD... on the sabbath day'
Matthew 12:8 - 'the Son of man is Lord even of the sabbath day'
Mark 2:28 - 'the Son of man is Lord even of the sabbath day'
Luke 6:5 - 'the Son of man is Lord also of the sabbath [day]'
Revelation 1:10 - 'the Lord's day'

The church which Jesus 'established' never kept the 'first [day] of the week' as Sabbath, and in fact, as already shown, every single 'first [day] of the week' text in the NT, demonstrates the perpetuity of the 7th day as the Sabbath, since the first [day] was simply a number pointing to that glorious culmination (see the koine Greek as I already cited - COL 2:16 And The Sabbath - Are You Being Told The Truth? ). It also didn't meet every first [day] of the week either. This may be shown from scripture if you will, just ask.

That's odd.
Jesus appeared to His disciples three times - each on a Sunday.
And in the First Century all Christian groups held Sunday services.

 

[MJFlores]

Well that is not true MJ, everytime I make a statement in my posts it is supported by scripure proof directly after the statment is made. If you read my posts and the scriptures provided you would know this already. It seems you do not read my posts. In the cases of the scriptures above for example they are all in reference to breaking God's law (10 commandments being th definition of what sin is and what happens to those who practice known unrepentant sin.


Well that is not true Mj that is a true statement, why would you think I want to take it back when I have said no such thing? Please do not say things I have never said or believe.



Your confused here brother and still repeatng yourself as your claims here have already been shown to be false through the scriptures elsewhere in this thread. God's LAW (10 Commandments) are for all of God's people.

The name "Israel" is only a name given by God himself to represent his people who believe and follow his Word. The origin of the name "Israel" come from Genesis 32:28 where Jacob wrestled with the Angel and prevailed ...for as a prince hast thou power with God and with men, and hast prevailed. Its meaning is his posterity will rule as God. Jacob had 12 sons representing the 12 tribes of Israel.

ISRAEL (God’s new name given to Jacob) had 12 sons which make up the 12 tribes of ISRAEL

GENESIS 35:22-26 [22], ... Now the sons of Jacob were twelve: [23], The sons of Leah; Reuben, Jacob's firstborn, and Simeon, and Levi, and Judah, and Issachar, and Zebulun: [24], The sons of Rachel; Joseph, and Benjamin: [25], And the sons of Bilhah, Rachel's handmaid; Dan, and Naphtali: [26], And the sons of Zilpah, Leah's handmaid; Gad, and Asher: these are the sons of Jacob, who were born to him in Paddanaram.

God’s promise of the NEW COVENANT is to ISRAEL…

JEREMIAH 31:31-34 [31], Behold, the days come, says the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: [32], Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; my covenant which they broke, although I was a husband unto them, says the LORD: [33], But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, says the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people. [34], And they shall teach no more every man his neighbor, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, says the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

144, 000 Come out of the 12 tribes of ISRAEL…

REVELATION 7:3-8 [3], Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God on their foreheads. [4], And I heard the number of them who were sealed: and there were sealed a hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel. [5], Of the tribe of Judah were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Reuben were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Gad were sealed twelve thousand. [6], Of the tribe of Asher were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Naphtali were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Manasseh were sealed twelve thousand. [7], Of the tribe of Simeon were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Levi were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Issachar were sealed twelve thousand. [8], Of the tribe of Zebulun were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Joseph were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Benjamin were sealed twelve thousand.

Now we have shown the origin of the name ISRAEL let's look at the scripture in detail in the NEW TESTAMENT scripture to see who God's ISRAEL is...

EPHESIANS 2:11-13 [11], Why remember, that you being in TIME PAST Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;

[12], That AT THAT TIME [in the Past] YOU WERE WITHOUT CHRIST, BEING ALIENS FROM THE COMMONWEALTH OF ISRAEL, STRANGERS FROM THE COVENANT OF PROMISE, HAVING NO HOPE, AND WITHOUT GOD IN THE WORLD: [13], BUT NOW IN CHRIST JESUS, YOU WHO WERE FAR OFF ARE MADE NEAR BY THE BLOOD OF CHRIST.

GALATIANS 3:28-29 [28], THERE IS NEITHER JEW NOR GREEK, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: FOR YOU ALL ONE IN CHRIST JESUS AND IF YOU BE CHRISTS, THEN YOU ARE ABRAHAM'S SEED FOR YOU ARE ALL ONE IN CHRIST JESUS [29], and IF YOU BE CHRISTS, THEN ARE YOU ABRAHAM'S SEED, AND HEIRS ACCORDING TO THE PROMISE.

God's true ISRAEL in the NEW COVENANT are not by name only but all those in Christ. Those of the FLESH (sinful human nature) are not Abrahams seed but those who BELIEVE and FOLLOW God in Christ are God's ISRAEL...

ROMANS 9:6-8 [6], FOR THEY ARE NOT ALL ISRAEL WHICH ARE OF ISRAEL,: [7], NEITHER, BECAUSE THEY ARE THE SEED OF ABRAHAM, ARE THEY ALL CHILDREN: but in Isaac shall thy seed be called <Christ> [8], That is, THEY WHICH ARE THE CHILDREN OF THE FLESH, THESE ARE NOT THE CHILDREN OF GOD: BUT THE CHILDREN OF THE PROMISE <those who believe> ARE COUNTED FOR THE SEED.

God's ISRAEL are all those in CHRIST that have been given a NEW HEART according to the NEW COVENANT promise...

ROMANS 2:28-29 [28], FOR HE IS NOT A JEW WHICH IS ONE OUTWARDLY; NEITHER IS THAT CIRCUMCISION, WHICH IS OUTWARDS IN THE FLESH: [29], BUT HE IS A JEW WHICH IS ONE INWARDLY; and CIRCUMCISION IS OF THE HEART, IN THE SPIRIT, AND NOT IN THE LETTER; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

In the NEW COVENANT all those in Christ are are God's ISRAEL...

COLOSSIANS 3:11 [11], WHERE THERE IS NEITHER JEW NOR GREEK circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: BUT CHRIST IS ALL IN ALL.

ROMANS 10:11-13 [11], For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed. [12], FOR THERE IS NO DIFFERENCE BETWEEN JEW OR GREEK: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him. [13], FOR WHOSOEVER SHALL CALL UPON THE NAME OF THE LORD SHALL BE SAVED.

The New Covenant is for God's Israel...

EZEKIEL 36:26-27 [26], A NEW HEART WILL I GIVE YOU, AND A NEW SPIRIT WILL I PUT WITHIN YOU; AND I WILL TAKE AWAY THE STONY HEART OUT OF YOUR FLESH, AND GIVE YOU A HEART OF FLESH. [27], AND I WILL PUT MY SPIRIT WITHIN YOU, AND CAUSE YOU TO WALK IN MY STATUTES AND YOU SHALL KEEP MY JUDGEMENTS AND DO THEM.

and again...

JEREMIAH 31:33-34 [33], BUT THIS IS THE COVENANT THAT I WILL MAKE WITH THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL; After those days, says the LORD, I WILL PUT MY LAW IN THEIR INWARD PARTS,AND WRITE IT IN THEIR HEARTS; and will be their God, and they shall be my people. [34], And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, says the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

Paul proclaims it here...

HEBREWS 8:10-12 [10], BUT THIS IS THE COVENANT THAT I WILL MAKE WITH THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL; After those days, says the LORD, I WILL PUT MY LAW IN THEIR INWARD PARTS, AND WRITE IT IN THEIR HEARTS; and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people: [11], And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest. [12], For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.

The NEW COVENANT is for GOD'S ISRAEL which represent those who BELIEVE and FOLLOW God’s WORD.

If you are not part of GOD'S ISRAEL then you are not a part of the NEW COVENANT (Hebrews 8:10-12).

............

CONCLUSION: God's ISRAEL is the name given by God to all those who BELIEVE and FOLLOW his WORD. GENTILES are now grafted in. If you are not a part of the God's ISRAEL then you have no part in the NEW COVENANT. GOD'S ISRAEL ARE ALL THOSE WHO BELIEVE AND FOLLOW GOD'S WORD (The Church). Sorry brother God's Word disagrees with you. Can you see your error here?

May you receive God's Word in the Spirit it was given and be blessed.

Sorry, your blood line is not Israelite
You don't speak Hebrew
And I bet when you visit Israel and overstay there
They will deport you
Because you are not Israeli

What you have been discussing is a figurative Israelite
Which the verses does not even substantiate that a Gentile would become an Israelite
Then it runs in conflict with the verses Romans 10:12; [URL='https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Galatians+3:28&version=NIV']Galatians 3:28[/URL]
That in the Church of Christ there is no more distinction between Jews and Gentiles
Therefore there are no more distinction between Israelites and non Israelites

Maybe your agenda is to conform with the Israelites are the ones exclusively to observe the Sabbath
See how lame it is?

It is the biblical position that the Sabbath is for the Israelites to observe.

Exodus 31:13 New International Version (NIV)
“Say to the Israelites, ‘You must observe my Sabbaths. This will be a sign between me and you for the generations to come, so you may know that I am the Lord, who makes you holy.

Now if you find a verse that the Sabbath is for the Church of Christ to follow,
Word for word, in verbatim
I might give you hugs and kisses
However, if you can't...

 

[The Anointed]

That's odd.
Jesus appeared to His disciples three times - each on a Sunday.
And in the First Century all Christian groups held Sunday services.

The women rested on the Sabbath, then early next morning while it was still dark they came to prepare the tomb of Jesus with spices, only to find it empty.

The first time that Jesus appeared to His disciples, was on the day after the weekly Sabbath.

So, you are correct in saying that the risen Jesus, appeared to his disciples for the first time on Sunday, the day after the weekly Sabbath.

 

[3rdAngel]

Sorry, your blood line is not Israelite
You don't speak Hebrew
And I bet when you visit Israel and overstay there
They will deport you
Because you are not Israeli

What you have been discussing is a figurative Israelite
Which the verses does not even substantiate that a Gentile would become an Israelite
Then it runs in conflict with the verses Romans 10:12; Galatians 3:28
That in the Church of Christ there is no more distinction between Jews and Gentiles
Therefore there are no more distinction between Israelites and non Israelites

Maybe your agenda is to conform with the Israelites are the ones exclusively to observe the Sabbath
See how lame it is?

It is the biblical position that the Sabbath is for the Israelites to observe.

Exodus 31:13 New International Version (NIV)
“Say to the Israelites, ‘You must observe my Sabbaths. This will be a sign between me and you for the generations to come, so you may know that I am the Lord, who makes you holy.

Now if you find a verse that the Sabbath is for the Church of Christ to follow,
Word for word, in verbatim
I might give you hugs and kisses
However, if you can't...

Your denial of God's Word is amazing brother and I am sad for you.

Are you really going to close your eyes and ears and harden your heart to all the scriptures from God's Word in the new testament that disagrees with you and shows why you are in error, in order to follow a man made teaching and tradition that denies God's Word and breaks the commandments of God?

Here let me post it again as a witness against you as you simply ignored the post you quoted from...

God's LAW (10 Commandments) are for all of God's people. In the new covenant and the new testament scriptures God's LAW (10 commandments) give us the knowledge of Good and Evil; Sin and Righteousness *Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4. According to God's Word in the new covenant if we break any one of God's 10 commandments we stand guilty before God of sin *James 2:10-11. God's 4th commandment is one of God's 10 commandments that give us the knowledge of what sin is.

Now brother let's go through this slowly do you agree with the new covenant scriptures shown above? If not why not? If you do why do you not believe God's Word?

Now to the name of Israel. If you find this too difficult here I will start a new thread on the topic as I have a lot more scripture to share but the topic of the OP here is Colossians 2:16-17 the real truth and it seems you do not wish to discuss it. Although I can understand why as it shows why you are in error.

The name "Israel" is only a name given by God himself to represent his people who believe and follow his Word. The origin of the name "Israel" come from Genesis 32:28 where Jacob wrestled with the Angel and prevailed ...for as a prince hast thou power with God and with men, and hast prevailed. Its meaning is his posterity will rule as God. Jacob had 12 sons representing the 12 tribes of Israel.

ISRAEL (God’s new name given to Jacob) had 12 sons which make up the 12 tribes of ISRAEL

GENESIS 35:22-26 [22], ... Now the sons of Jacob were twelve: [23], The sons of Leah; Reuben, Jacob's firstborn, and Simeon, and Levi, and Judah, and Issachar, and Zebulun: [24], The sons of Rachel; Joseph, and Benjamin: [25], And the sons of Bilhah, Rachel's handmaid; Dan, and Naphtali: [26], And the sons of Zilpah, Leah's handmaid; Gad, and Asher: these are the sons of Jacob, who were born to him in Paddanaram.

God’s promise of the NEW COVENANT is to ISRAEL…

JEREMIAH 31:31-34 [31], Behold, the days come, says the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: [32], Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; my covenant which they broke, although I was a husband unto them, says the LORD: [33], But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, says the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people. [34], And they shall teach no more every man his neighbor, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, says the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

144, 000 Come out of the 12 tribes of ISRAEL…

REVELATION 7:3-8 [3], Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God on their foreheads. [4], And I heard the number of them who were sealed: and there were sealed a hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel. [5], Of the tribe of Judah were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Reuben were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Gad were sealed twelve thousand. [6], Of the tribe of Asher were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Naphtali were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Manasseh were sealed twelve thousand. [7], Of the tribe of Simeon were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Levi were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Issachar were sealed twelve thousand. [8], Of the tribe of Zebulun were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Joseph were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Benjamin were sealed twelve thousand.

Now we have shown the origin of the name ISRAEL let's look at the scripture in detail in the NEW TESTAMENT scripture to see who God's ISRAEL is...

EPHESIANS 2:11-13 [11], Why remember, that you being in TIME PAST Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;
[12], That AT THAT TIME [in the Past] YOU WERE WITHOUT CHRIST, BEING ALIENS FROM THE COMMONWEALTH OF ISRAEL, STRANGERS FROM THE COVENANT OF PROMISE, HAVING NO HOPE, AND WITHOUT GOD IN THE WORLD: [13], BUT NOW IN CHRIST JESUS, YOU WHO WERE FAR OFF ARE MADE NEAR BY THE BLOOD OF CHRIST.

GALATIANS 3:28-29 [28], THERE IS NEITHER JEW NOR GREEK, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: FOR YOU ALL ONE IN CHRIST JESUS AND IF YOU BE CHRISTS, THEN YOU ARE ABRAHAM'S SEED FOR YOU ARE ALL ONE IN CHRIST JESUS [29], and IF YOU BE CHRISTS, THEN ARE YOU ABRAHAM'S SEED, AND HEIRS ACCORDING TO THE PROMISE.

God's true ISRAEL in the NEW COVENANT are not by name only but all those in Christ. Those of the FLESH (sinful human nature) are not Abrahams seed but those who BELIEVE and FOLLOW God in Christ are God's ISRAEL...

ROMANS 9:6-8 [6], FOR THEY ARE NOT ALL ISRAEL WHICH ARE OF ISRAEL,: [7], NEITHER, BECAUSE THEY ARE THE SEED OF ABRAHAM, ARE THEY ALL CHILDREN: but in Isaac shall thy seed be called <Christ> [8], That is, THEY WHICH ARE THE CHILDREN OF THE FLESH, THESE ARE NOT THE CHILDREN OF GOD: BUT THE CHILDREN OF THE PROMISE <those who believe> ARE COUNTED FOR THE SEED.

God's ISRAEL are all those in CHRIST that have been given a NEW HEART according to the NEW COVENANT promise...

ROMANS 2:28-29 [28], FOR HE IS NOT A JEW WHICH IS ONE OUTWARDLY; NEITHER IS THAT CIRCUMCISION, WHICH IS OUTWARDS IN THE FLESH: [29], BUT HE IS A JEW WHICH IS ONE INWARDLY; and CIRCUMCISION IS OF THE HEART, IN THE SPIRIT, AND NOT IN THE LETTER; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

In the NEW COVENANT all those in Christ are are God's ISRAEL...

COLOSSIANS 3:11 [11], WHERE THERE IS NEITHER JEW NOR GREEK circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: BUT CHRIST IS ALL IN ALL.

ROMANS 10:11-13 [11], For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed. [12], FOR THERE IS NO DIFFERENCE BETWEEN JEW OR GREEK: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him. [13], FOR WHOSOEVER SHALL CALL UPON THE NAME OF THE LORD SHALL BE SAVED.

The New Covenant is for God's Israel...

EZEKIEL 36:26-27 [26], A NEW HEART WILL I GIVE YOU, AND A NEW SPIRIT WILL I PUT WITHIN YOU; AND I WILL TAKE AWAY THE STONY HEART OUT OF YOUR FLESH, AND GIVE YOU A HEART OF FLESH. [27], AND I WILL PUT MY SPIRIT WITHIN YOU, AND CAUSE YOU TO WALK IN MY STATUTES AND YOU SHALL KEEP MY JUDGEMENTS AND DO THEM.

and again...

JEREMIAH 31:33-34 [33], BUT THIS IS THE COVENANT THAT I WILL MAKE WITH THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL; After those days, says the LORD, I WILL PUT MY LAW IN THEIR INWARD PARTS,AND WRITE IT IN THEIR HEARTS; and will be their God, and they shall be my people. [34], And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, says the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

Paul proclaims it here...

HEBREWS 8:10-12 [10], BUT THIS IS THE COVENANT THAT I WILL MAKE WITH THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL; After those days, says the LORD, I WILL PUT MY LAW IN THEIR INWARD PARTS, AND WRITE IT IN THEIR HEARTS; and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people: [11], And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest. [12], For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.

The NEW COVENANT is for GOD'S ISRAEL which represent those who BELIEVE and FOLLOW God’s WORD.

If you are not part of GOD'S ISRAEL then you are not a part of the NEW COVENANT (Hebrews 8:10-12).

............

CONCLUSION: God's ISRAEL is the name given by God to all those who BELIEVE and FOLLOW his WORD. GENTILES are now grafted in. If you are not a part of the God's ISRAEL then you have no part in the NEW COVENANT. GOD'S ISRAEL ARE ALL THOSE WHO BELIEVE AND FOLLOW GOD'S WORD (The Church). Sorry brother God's Word disagrees with you. Can you see your error here?

Ignoring God's Word brother does not make it dissappear. When JESUS and PAUL spoke the Word of God the Jew closed their eyes and ears to hearing God's Word as they did to Steven before they stoned him. You do not want to find yourself in that position brother *Matthew 15:7-9; Acts 28:25-27

May you receive God's Word in the Spirit it was given and be blessed.

 

[3rdAngel]

Now if you find a verse that the Sabbath is for the Church of Christ to follow, Word for word, in verbatim I might give you hugs and kisses
However, if you can't...

As shown in the previous post God's ISRAEL in the NEW COVENANT is the CHURCH! God's ISRAEL (the Church) is all those who believe and follow God's WORD. Gentiles are grafted in *ROMANS 11:13-27.

If you are not a part of God's ISRAEL you have no part in the new covenant promise... HEBREWS 8:10 And this is the covenant that I will make with the HOUSE OF ISRAEL (from JEREMIAH 31:31-34). Also demonstrated and already proven from the new testament scriptures found in EPHESIANS 2:11-13; GALATIANS 3:28-29; ROMANS 9:6-8; ROMANS 2:28-29; COLOSSIANS 3:11; ROMANS 10:11-13.

Now brother these are God's Word not mine do you believe them? If not why not? If you cannot show why the above is not God's Word than why do you not believe them?

Now you can leave your kisses. How about a hug?

HEBREWS 4:9 THEREFORE IT REMAINS FOR THE PEOPLE OF GOD TO KEEP THE SABBATH

Now no kisses please.

Receive God's WORD and be blessed. Ignoring God's Word does not make it dissappear.

 

[Tumah]

.

Colossians 2:16-17
16 So don’t let anyone make rules for you about eating and drinking or about Jewish customs (festivals, New Moon celebrations, or Sabbath days). 17 In the past these things were like a shadow that showed what was coming. But the new things that were coming are found in Christ.

.​

Sounds pretty straightforward to me. Stop following old Jewish customs. Instead, follow those founded on the Christian faith.

.

.

Matt 23:2-3
2 "The teachers of the law and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat. 3 So you must be careful to do everything they tell you. But do not do what they do, for they do not practice what they preach.
​

How does this work?

 

[The Anointed]

"Saturday" isn't technically the "Sabbath". The first is Roman time (midnight to midnight) and the Sabbath is scriptural time (even unto even). The two timeframes overlap, but are not technically the same.

As for the matter of 'work', there are three kinds in scripture:

[1] holy/faith - John 5:17; Exodus 20:8; Hebrews 4:11 "keep it holy", which doesn't transgress the commandment, and is in harmony with it, such as healing

[2] common/profane - Exodus 20:9, 'thy work' - like mowing the lawn

[3] wicked/carnal - 2 Timothy 4:18; James 3:16 - like murder, theft, etc

Therefore, a nurse who 'works' on sabbath, whether or not is a violation of the commandment would have to consider the context of the 'work', the situation, etc., and even the individual conscience of the matter. For instance changing out soiled bed sheets, or bringing comfort to those who are ill, that day is not profane, but a work of holiness and righteousness, of cleansing, which is in harmony with the commandment, as Jesus gave such examples of Healing upon the sabbath, for in order to heal, restoration of the human temple is involved. So, it will 'depend' situationally.

In scriptural time, a day is from evening to evening, as you have said. The Jewish day consisted of 12 hours of darkness followed by 12 hours of daylight, The weekly Sabbath began as the sunset on Friday afternoon and ended as darkness ushered in the 12 hours of Sunday night.

The Jewish day began at sunset and consisted of 12 hours of darkness followed by 12 hours of Daylight.

Jesus said; "The Day has 12 hours has it not, so work while the light is with you.

It was not 'NOON' when Pilate passed judgement on Jesus, as most bibles claim, it was the sixth hour of the 12 hour of darkness (MIDNIGHT) on the day of preparation to the erroneous Jewish Passover. See RSV John 19: 14.

See Mark 15: 25 RSV; He was nailed to the cross on the 3rd hour of the 12 hours of daylight, (9 AM) on the day of preparation to the Passover, darkness covered the Land at the 6th hour of the 12 hours of daylight (NOON) on the day of preparation to the Jewish Passover, Jesus died on the 9th hour (3PM) on the day of preparation to the Jewish Passover, and was buried just as the sun was setting on the day of preparation to the Jewish Passover, just as the Jews were preparing to eat their pascal Lambs in the evening of the 15th day of Nisan, which is the first of the seven day Festival of Unleavened bread, a Most High Sabbath, but not the normal weekly Sabbath..