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COL 2:16 And The Sabbath - Are You Being Told The Truth?

3rdAngel

Well-Known Member
You still haven’t cabbaged on to the fact that what I practice isn’t covered in the link.
You still haven't answered the question. How can you be a member of the Clergy and practice SHAMANISM linked which is the occult? The link is only a general all round overview of Shamanism placing it in the occult. Perhaps you would like to explain why you think you do not practice what is in the link or provide a link showing what you practice and how it differs to the overview in the link that has been provided here? You do not have to if you do not want to. I am not expecting you to. :)
 

sojourner

Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
You still haven't answered the question. How can you be a member of the Clergy and practice SHAMANISM linked which is the occult? The link is only a general all round overview of Shamanism placing it in the occult. Perhaps you would like to explain why you think you do not practice what is in the link or provide a link showing what you practice and how it differs to the overview in the link that has been provided here? You do not have to if you do not want to. I am not expecting you to. :)
There is no “it.” That’s what you’re not getting. Shamanistic practices cover a wide, wide swath of spiritual practice. The link Does. Not. Describe. what I practice. Therefore, the question is bogus. It’s like asking when I stopped beating my wife.

Perhaps, given that I don’t know who you are, and given the narrow, judgmental and provocative nature of your posts, I don’t care to share my spiritual self with you.
 

3rdAngel

Well-Known Member
There is no “it.” That’s what you’re not getting. Shamanistic practices cover a wide, wide swath of spiritual practice. The link Does. Not. Describe. what I practice. Therefore, the question is bogus. It’s like asking when I stopped beating my wife.

Perhaps, given that I don’t know who you are, and given the narrow, judgmental and provocative nature of your posts, I don’t care to share my spiritual self with you.

I am sorry my friend, I am only trying to help you. I believe we cannot practice occult teachings and be christian according to the scriptures. If you do not want to answer the questions asked of you just say so. I did not expect you would anyway. I believe you already know what I am sharing with you is true by the very way you have reacted so will leave it between you and God. :)
 
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3rdAngel

Well-Known Member
... if you're Jewish.
Please go back to the Book of Exodus and read for yourself or you'll just be making the same mistake over and over again. If you need help, please let me know and I'll get back with ya tomorrow.

There was no JEWS when the Sabbath was made for all mankind *GENESIS 2:1-3; MARK 2:27-28 :)
 

sojourner

Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
I am sorry my friend, I am only trying to help you
I don’t remember needing help or asking for help, and I don’t see your credentials as a qualified spiritual director.

I believe we cannot practice occult teachings and be christian according to the scriptures
1) This isn’t an occult practice. 2) what you believe is immaterial.

I believe you already know what I am sharing with you is true
People act the way I act when we keep getting bludgeoned with falsehood with regard to our personal information.
 

sojourner

Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
Just keep in mind that you are not standing on any evidence for your "O".
Shamans are deeply connected to the earth. Jesus had command over forces of nature.

Shamans are in tune spiritually and can converse with spirits. Jesus was one with the Father, conversed with spirits and sent the HS.

Shamans heal. Jesus healed.

Shamans track history of trauma. Jesus knew all about the woman at the well.

Shamans meditate. Jesus prayed for hours and sweat blood.

Shamans work to transmute death to life. Jesus was Resurrected and resurrected others.

shamans are attuned to the earth’s energies. Jesus felt energy being released from him.

Shamans celebrate beauty and seek to identify/create beauty in all life. Jesus saw the potential value in the prostitute, and forgave his tormentors.

Shamanism isn’t about particular doctrinal or mythic beliefs. It’s about walking a spiritual path, embodying spiritual and energetic medicine, and bringing about positive transformation. Jesus said that we would do the things he did — and even greater things.

Need I go on?
 

coconut theology

coconuts for Jesus
Colossians 2:16 is citing Ezekiel 45:17. That alone (in its proper context) places the "sabbath days" in the specific realm of non-weekly, and in the midst of the pattern (all throughout the Bible) of carnal "ordinances" of the worldly sanctuary, and are not referring to the spiritual Law of God, the Ten Commandments (Romans 7:14), which are never called "ordinances" or "carnal" in all of scripture. In vs 17 it specifically speaks of that which was "shadow", as the typical feastal yearly sabbaths were (Leviticus 23:4-38) or the 7th year and 50 year sabbaths were (Leviticus 25), and not "light" as the Law of God, the Ten Commandments are (Proverbs 6:23; Isaiah 8:20).

Back to OP.
 

3rdAngel

Well-Known Member
Colossians 2:16 is citing Ezekiel 45:17. That alone (in its proper context) places the "sabbath days" in the specific realm of non-weekly, and in the midst of the pattern (all throughout the Bible) of carnal "ordinances" of the worldly sanctuary, and are not referring to the spiritual Law of God, the Ten Commandments (Romans 7:14), which are never called "ordinances" or "carnal" in all of scripture. In vs 17 it specifically speaks of that which was "shadow", as the typical feastal yearly sabbaths were (Leviticus 23:4-38) or the 7th year and 50 year sabbaths were (Leviticus 25), and not "light" as the Law of God, the Ten Commandments are (Proverbs 6:23; Isaiah 8:20).

Back to OP.

Hi CT, I think you will scare everyone away if you want to discuss the OP. Very few people have wanted to discuss the OP since it started :)
 

metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
I never stated that they were, but Jews, Samaritans, and Karaites are all from the 12 Tribes of Israel. What separates them are some doctrinal and political differences, much the same as what we currently see between Orthodox, Conservative, and Reform Jews.

The Pharisees, for example, strongly believed in the "oral Law", whereas the Samaritans and Karaites had their "Oral Traditions". However, a great many of the teachings with all three are the same or similar.

The name "Israelites" was used even when they were in Sinai, which is obviously not part of eretz Israel. Therefore, what happened to them? Did they and their descendants all miraculously disappear? No, as today we still call them "Jews" in the diasporah.
 

metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
You have not addressed the fact that Jesus mentioned more than two commandments. You can't get your head away from the two. And one of the two is to love God. I do not see how you can love God and disrespect the special day He blessed and made holy. So maybe that is something for you to wrao your head around instead of sticking it in the sand and refusing to consider anything other than what some church has told you.
It is you who simply is not willing to accept Jesus' words that are clearly written, namely that there are Two Commandments. I'm not the one whom doesn't understand even something as basic as this. Here it is again:
Matthew 22[35] And one of them, a lawyer, asked him a question, to test him.
[36] "Teacher, which is the great commandment in the law?"
[37] And he said to him, "You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind.
[38] This is the great and first commandment.
[39] And a second is like it, You shall love your neighbor as yourself.
[40] On these two commandments depend all the law and the prophets."


Thus, unless you can come up with something based on what Jesus actually taught, there's simply no where to go with this.
 

coconut theology

coconuts for Jesus
Hi CT, I think you will scare everyone away if you want to discuss the OP. Very few people have wanted to discuss the OP since it started :)
I noticed. It seems like a train wreck of every convoluted and inane response to so clear a presentation. Here is another go at it:

Let's consider Colossians 2 briefly, though we can consider in great detail later:

Colossians 2 KJB, parallels Ephesians 2 KJB, and Hebrews 9-10 KJB. The language is the same. The "ordinances" in Colossians 2 deals with "shadows", such as the daily "meat and drink" offerings of a worldly sanctuary and carnal ordinances, the seasonal "feast days", the monthly "new moons", and the year based "sabbaths", in the singular, every 7 and 50th years, as Paul is citing Psalms 98:1-3; and Ezekiel 45:17 KJB with other texts.

The Sabbath of the LORD thy God is always called "my [as in God's] sabbaths", and the others in Leviticus 23:4 onward are called "your [the peoples] sabbaths" [Leviticus 26:35 KJB] which are "beside [given in addition to] the sabbaths of the LORD" [Leviticus 23:38 KJB]. The Ten Commandments, including the Sabbath of the 4th Commandment, are "light" [Proverbs 6:23, Isaiah 8:20, 51:4 KJB], never a "shadow", are "spiritual" [Romans 7:14 KJB], never "carnal" [Hebrews 9:10 KJB].

Colossians 2:14 - "ordinances"
Ephesians 2:15 - "law of commandments contained in ordinances"
Hebrews 9:1 - "ordinances of divine service"
Hebrews 9:10 - "carnal ordinances"

Colossians 2:16 - "in meat, or in drink" [offerings]
Hebrews 9:10 - "meats and drinks" [offerings]

Colossians 2:12 - "also ye are risen with him"
Ephesians 2:6 - "raised us up together"

Colossians 2:16 - "a shadow of things to come"
Ephesians 2:7 - "in the ages to come"
Hebrews 9:11 - "of good things to come"
Hebrews 10:1 - "the law having a shadow of good things to come", "those sacrifices", "offered year by year"​

[ps. none of the Ten Commandments deal with carnal sacrifices]
etc.

Colossians 2 speaks of plural, "sabbath days" (or 'of sabbaths'). The context, is also not concerned with all 'sabbaths' but is limited in scope, to that which is "shadow" (not light, not body or substance), that which is "of things to come" (type pointing to the future events) and of "ordinances" (not moral or spiritual Law; Romans 7:14 as the Ten Commandments are), as follows.

[1]
The Sabbath of the LORD thy God, of Creation (Genesis 2:1-3; Exodus 20:8-11), was given to mankind (Adam) before the sin of mankind (Mark 2:27), before the need of shadow and type, which were given after the sin of mankind, under the Levitical priesthood.

[2] The Sabbath of the LORD the God, is a memorial (pointing backwards, thu the words "Remember" (Exodus 20:8)), to a perfect world without sin, perfect relationship, perfect rest), and is not pointing to the future.

[3] The Sabbath of the LORD thy God, is singular and specific. "The seventh day" "the sabbath" "of the LORD thy God".

Exodus 20:8 KJB - Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
Exodus 20:9 KJB - Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
Exodus 20:10 KJB - But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:
Exodus 20:11 KJB - For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

Exodus 20:8 HOT - זכור את־יום השׁבת לקדשׁו׃
Exodus 20:9 HOT - שׁשׁת ימים תעבד ועשׂית כל־מלאכתך׃
Exodus 20:10 HOT - ויום השׁביעי שׁבת ליהוה אלהיך לא־תעשׂה כל־מלאכה אתה ובנך־ובתך עבדך ואמתך ובהמתך וגרך אשׁר בשׁעריך׃
Exodus 20:11 HOT - כי שׁשׁת־ימים עשׂה יהוה את־השׁמים ואת־הארץ את־הים ואת־כל־אשׁר־בם וינח ביום השׁביעי על־כן ברך יהוה את־יום השׁבת ויקדשׁהו׃

Exodus 20:8 HOT Translit. - zäkhôr et-yôm haSHaBät l'qaD'shô
Exodus 20:9 HOT Translit. - shëshet yämiym Taávod w'äsiytä Käl-m'lakh'Tekhä
Exodus 20:10 HOT Translit. -w'yôm haSH'viyiy shaBät layhwäh éloheykhä lo-taáseh khäl-m'läkhäh aTäh ûvin'khä-ûviTekhä av'D'khä waámät'khä ûv'hem'Tekhä w'gër'khä ásher Bish'äreykhä
Exodus 20:11 HOT Translit. - Kiy shëshet-yämiym äsäh y'hwäh et-haSHämayim w'et-hääretz et-haYäm w'et-Käl-ásher-Bäm waYänach BaYôm haSH'viyiy al-Kën Bërakh' y'hwäh et-yôm haSHaBät way'qaD'shëhû š​

[4]
The Sabbath of the LORD is separate from the yearly festal sabbaths, as denoted in Leviticus 23 (see Leviticus 23:3; then see Leviticus 23:4,38 "beside the sabbaths of the LORD")

[5] The Sabbath of the LORD thy God, is called "the sabbath of the LORD" (Exodus 20:8-11, etc), and "My sabbaths" (Isaiah 56:4; Ezekiel 20:20), as opposed to theirs, called "your sabbaths" (Leviticus 26:34,35), and "her sabbaths" (Leviticus 26:34,43; 2 Chronicles 26:31; Lamentations 1:7; Hosea 2:11), etc.

[6] Colossians 2, in its entire context says nothing about "the seventh day", but speaks of merely the shadow sabbaths (plural, not singular), and says nothing of "commandment" (as Luke 23:54,56 does), but speaks of wordly "ordinances" (Colossians 2:14,20).

[7] Colossians 2, speaks of "sins" (Colossians 2:13), which is "transgression of the law" (1 John 3:4), of which the 4th Commandment (Exodus 20:8-11) is central, whereas the yearly (and of years) sabbaths are not given in the Ten Commandments at all​

More can be said, but 7 was a good number to round it off at this point, more in detail in a bit.
 

coconut theology

coconuts for Jesus
Hi CT, I think you will scare everyone away if you want to discuss the OP. Very few people have wanted to discuss the OP since it started :)
Here are some helpful commentary on it also for those that like to live with what men say instead of the plain words of scripture (KJB) (and I know there are a lot of those responding in this thread):

On Colossians 2, even well known commentators, still regarded to this day have said:

Albert Barnes, a noted Bible Commentator, states on Colossians 2:16, on the word “sabbatwn”:

“... Or of the Sabbath days - Greek, “of the Sabbaths.” The word Sabbath in the Old Testament is applied not only to the seventh day, but to all the days of holy rest that were observed by the Hebrews, and particularly to the beginning and close of their great festivals. There is, doubtless, reference to those days in this place, since the word is used in the plural number, and the apostle does not refer particularly to the Sabbath properly so called. There is no evidence from this passage that he would teach that there was no obligation to observe any holy time, for there is not the slightest reason to believe that he meant to teach that one of the ten commandments had ceased to be binding on mankind. If he had used the word in the singular number - “the Sabbath,” it would then, of course, have been clear that he meant to teach that that commandment had ceased to be binding, and that a Sabbath was no longer to be observed. But the use of the term in the plural number, and the connection, show that he had his eye on the great number of days which were observed by the Hebrews as festivals, as a part of their ceremonial and typical law, and not to the moral law, or the Ten Commandments. No part of the moral law - no one of the ten commandments could be spoken of as “a shadow of good things to come.” These commandments are, from the nature of moral law, of perpetual and universal obligation. ...” - Albert Barnes, Colossians 2:16 Commentary. E-Sword App.​

Furthermore, another noted Commentator, Adam Clarke, states on the same passage:

“... There is no intimation here that the Sabbath was done away, or that its moral use was superseded, by the introduction of Christianity. I have shown elsewhere that, Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy, is a command of perpetual obligation, and can never be superseded but by the final termination of time. ...” - Adam Clarke, Colossians 2:16 Commentary. E-Sword App.​

Even the Jamieson, Fausset and Brown Commentary state:

“... the sabbath — Omit “THE,” which is not in the Greek (compare Note, see on Gal_4:10). “SABBATHS” (not “the sabbaths”) of the day of atonement and feast of tabernacles have come to an end with the Jewish services to which they belonged (Lev_23:32, Lev_23:37-39). The weekly sabbath rests on a more permanent foundation, having been instituted in Paradise to commemorate the completion of creation in six days. Lev_23:38 expressly distinguished “the sabbath of the Lord” from the other sabbaths. A positive precept is right because it is commanded, and ceases to be obligatory when abrogated; a moral precept is commanded eternally, because it is eternally right. If we could keep a perpetual sabbath, as we shall hereafter, the positive precept of the sabbath, one in each week, would not be needed. Heb_4:9, “rests,” Greek, “keeping of sabbath” (Isa_66:23). But we cannot, since even Adam, in innocence, needed one amidst his earthly employments; therefore the sabbath is still needed and is therefore still linked with the other nine commandments, as obligatory in the spirit, though the letter of the law has been superseded by that higher spirit of love which is the essence of law and Gospel alike (Rom_13:8-10). ...” - Jamieson, Fausset and Brown, Colossians 2:16 Commentary. E-Sword App.​
 

lostwanderingsoul

Well-Known Member
It is you who simply is not willing to accept Jesus' words that are clearly written, namely that there are Two Commandments. I'm not the one whom doesn't understand even something as basic as this. Here it is again:
Matthew 22[35] And one of them, a lawyer, asked him a question, to test him.
[36] "Teacher, which is the great commandment in the law?"
[37] And he said to him, "You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind.
[38] This is the great and first commandment.
[39] And a second is like it, You shall love your neighbor as yourself.
[40] On these two commandments depend all the law and the prophets."


Thus, unless you can come up with something based on what Jesus actually taught, there's simply no where to go with this.
And I guess "love the Lord your God" means you can ignore everything He says that you do not like. God rested on the seventh day and made the sabbath for mankind. Not Jew, not Christian, not Muslim, but for MAN. So if you can love God with all your heart and spit on His holy day, then good for you. And you say that on these two commandments depend all the law, I guess you realize that the Ten Commandments are included in the law. But if you do not like the Sabbath law, then you also do not have to follow the two commandments that the law depends on. So it all comes down to pick what you like and ignore everything else.
 

allright

Active Member
Please explain how honoring the Sabbath means going to church

Exodus 16:29 says the Israels were to honor the sabbath by staying in their homes (tents)

Therefore going to church on the Sabbath would be breaking the fourth commandment
 

coconut theology

coconuts for Jesus
Please explain how honoring the Sabbath means going to church

Exodus 16:29 says the Israels were to honor the sabbath by staying in their homes (tents)

Therefore going to church on the Sabbath would be breaking the fourth commandment
Jesus, keeping sabbath:

Mat_12:1 At that time Jesus went on the sabbath day through the corn; and his disciples were an hungred, and began to pluck the ears of corn, and to eat.

Luk_4:16 And he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up: and, as his custom was, he went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and stood up for to read.​

Paul, keeping sabbath:

Act_16:13 And on the sabbath we went out of the city by a river side, where prayer was wont to be made; and we sat down, and spake unto the women which resorted thither.

Act_17:2 And Paul, as his manner was, went in unto them, and three sabbath days reasoned with them out of the scriptures,​

You have mistaken the instruction of the wilderness encampment with their coming into settled places in the promised land, after manna stopped falling (Joshua 5:12). Also, the context, you have misunderstood.

Exo 16:29 See, for that the LORD hath given you the sabbath, therefore he giveth you on the sixth day the bread of two days; abide ye every man in his place, let no man go out of his place on the seventh day.​

What is the context of "no man go out of his place on the seventh day"?

To gather manna.

Exo 16:27 And it came to pass, that there went out some of the people on the seventh day for to gather, and they found none.​
 

3rdAngel

Well-Known Member
Please explain how honoring the Sabbath means going to church

Exodus 16:29 says the Israels were to honor the sabbath by staying in their homes (tents)

Therefore going to church on the Sabbath would be breaking the fourth commandment

Good question allright. CT posted some good scriptures already on how JESUS and PAUL kept the Sabbath. The SABBATH is Gods 4th commandment to His people that believe and follow his Word *EXODUS 20:8-11. We keep the SABBATH by "REMEMBERING" creation and God as the creator of heaven and earth. We enter into God's SABBATH by "RESTING" from our works as GOD did from his work of creation.

HOW DO WE KEEP THE SABBATH?

WHAT DOES GOD'S 4TH COMMANDMENT SAY?

EXODUS 20:8-11
[8], Remember the SABBATH DAY, to KEEP IT HOLY. <Why?> Because God made it Holy for mankind and commands us to keep it as a Holy day)
[9], Six days shalt thou labor, and do all thy work:
[10], But the SEVENTH DAY IS THE SABBATH of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: <WHY>
[11], For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the SEVENTH DAY: wherefore the LORD BLESSED THE SABBATH, and HALLOWED IT.

WHAT DAY IS GOD'S SABBATH?

v10 The SEVENTH DAY of the week. (Saturday)

WHEN DOES THE SEVENTH DAY OF THE WEEK START?

GENESIS 1:4-5
[4], And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.
[5], And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.

A day in God's time is the night (darkness) and the light make up one day. The DAY in God's WORD starts at SUNSET and ends the following SUNSET. So God's 4th Commandment Sabbath would start Friday at SUNSET and end Saturday at SUNSET.

ALL UNECCESSARY WORK TO BE DONE BEFORE FRIDAY SUNSET

EXODUS 16:22-23
[22], And it came to pass, that on the sixth day they gathered twice as much bread, two omers for one man: and all the rulers of the congregation came and told Moses.
[23], And he said to them, This is that which the LORD has said, To morrow is the rest of the holy sabbath to the LORD: bake that which you will bake to day, and seethe that you will seethe; and that which remains over lay up for you to be kept until the morning.

MARK 15:42, And now when the even was come, because it was the preparation, that is, the day before the sabbath

The preparation day is the 6th day of the week. This includes preparing to stop all business and secular work as well as any domestic work; cooking, cleaning; shopping, buying and selling that can be done on any other day of the week.

IT IS LAWFUL TO DO GOOD ON THE SABBATH?

MATTHEW 12:5-12
[5], Or have you not read in the law, how that on the sabbath days the priests in the temple profane the sabbath, and are blameless?
[6], But I say to you, That in this place is one greater than the temple.
[7], But if you had known what this means, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice, you would not have condemned the guiltless.
[8], For the Son of man is Lord even of the sabbath day
[9], And when he was departed from there, he went into their synagogue:
[10], And, behold, there was a man who had his hand withered. And they asked him, saying, Is it lawful to heal on the sabbath days? that they might accuse him.
[11], And he said unto them, What man shall there be among you, that shall have one sheep, and if it fall into a pit on the sabbath day, will he not lay hold on it, and lift it out?
[12], How much then is a man better than a sheep? Therefore it is lawful to do well on the sabbath days.

MARK 2:27, And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath

It is lawful to do good on the Sabbath.

WHAT IS LAWFUL ON GOD'S SABBATH?

1. Remembering the creator and his creation (Exod 20:8-11)
2. Rest from all unnecessary work (Ecodus 20:10-11)
3. Doing good (Matt 12:12)
4. Prayer (Acts 16:13; Matt 21:13)
5. Worship the creator (Isaiah 58:13-14; Ex 34:14; 1KING 9:6; Rev 14:6-12)

Song, praise, bible study, helping others, preaching the gospel, resting, prayer, seeking God, remembering the creator and his creation. Walking in nature, going to church with like minded believers. (too many scriptures)

WHAT IS NOT LAWFUL ON GOD'S SABBATH?

WORK; all business and secular work as well as any domestic work; cooking, cleaning; shopping, buying and selling that can be done on any other day of the week and anything to do with work (Exodus 20:8-11; Ex 16:22-23; Matt 21:13).

.............

There is no purpose in FOLLOWING any of God's LAWs including the SABBATH if it is NOT done through FAITH that works by LOVE because it is ONLY as GOD writes his LAW to LOVE then we can take up our beds to follow him. LOVE is the fulfilling of GOd's LAW in those who BELIEVE (Rom 13:8-10).

.............

Answering your question plainly, keeping God's 4th commandment is not about going to Church it is about "RESTING" from work. No secular, domestic or business; buying and selling work from the heart of any kind. Going to Church is simply one way of worshipping GOD collectively on the SABBATH just the same as RESTING at home or in nature.

blessings.
 
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lostwanderingsoul

Well-Known Member
Please explain how honoring the Sabbath means going to church

Exodus 16:29 says the Israels were to honor the sabbath by staying in their homes (tents)

Therefore going to church on the Sabbath would be breaking the fourth commandment
The commandment says nothing about church. It say to remember the sabbath to keep it holy. Many churches teach that the sabbath has changed from the seventh day to the first day. There is nothing to support this. You can go to church any day you want but you must remember that God rested on the seventh day and wants people to honor that day.
 
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