College students unclear about Free Speech - FIRE

[The Reverend Bob]

So? A lot of people run their traps on the internet saying hateful stuff and making the most absurd and idle of threats ever issued. Realistically, a threat from a two-year-old carries more weight. On the internet, you can beat up anyone. It also provides all sorts of protections and shields so there isn't any real chance of it backfiring on you, so it's not even like running your mouth on the playground where it can get bopped.

And that is the problem. It doesn't have consequences. Milo can run harassment campaigns all day long on twitter, gets band and all he does is create a new account and continues on disseminating hate speech. There should always be consequences for certain types of speech

 

[Revoltingest]

So? A lot of people run their traps on the internet saying hateful stuff and making the most absurd and idle of threats ever issued. Realistically, a threat from a two-year-old carries more weight. On the internet, you can beat up anyone. It also provides all sorts of protections and shields so there isn't any real chance of it backfiring on you, so it's not even like running your mouth on the playground where it can get bopped.

On the internet I have a 9th degree black belt in Schtick Fu.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

And that is the problem. It doesn't have consequences.

Saying "you wanna say that in real life" has consequences. It makes you look like a punk, and people get a laugh out of it, at your expense. Asides from that, how has it possible given any consequences to Nowhere Man? He doesn't even describe Democrats correctly, instead claiming they are all "Socialist Democrats." Is that really worth making yourself look like an *** over?

Milo can run harassment campaigns all day long on twitter, gets band and all he does is create a new account and continues on disseminating hate speech. There should always be consequences for certain types of speech

And, BTW, Conservatives dealt him a far bigger blow than any Liberal has.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

On the internet I have a 9th degree black belt in Schtick Fu.

I have one in Drunken Wire Fu. I'll Matrix stagger and fly through the air and before I'm done bouncing and zooming around no one, not even myself, will know which way is up.

 

[Revoltingest]

I have one in Drunken Wire Fu. I'll Matrix stagger and fly through the air and before I'm done no one, not even myself, will know which way is up.

My favorite martial arts technique is to sit down.
Guys bent on belligerence find it non- threatening & odd.
Bend down to punch me? Nah, it doesn't happen.

Of course, it's not always practical.
Then I scream like a little girl & run away.
(This makes it too embarrassing to chase me.)

 

[Shadow Wolf]

My favorite martial arts technique is to sit down.
Guys bent on belligerence find it non- threatening & odd.
Bend down to punch me? Nah, it doesn't happen.

I can't even laugh at that because it fits the "win without fighting" thingy. Except I can...your belly really IS yellow!!

 

[The Reverend Bob]

Saying "you wanna say that in real life" has consequences. It makes you look like a punk, and people get a laugh out of it, at your expense. Asides from that, how has it possible given any consequences to Nowhere Man? He doesn't even describe Democrats correctly, instead claiming they are all "Socialist Democrats." Is that really worth making yourself look like an *** over?

Point is free speech is abridged in IRL. I was showing him how it is abridged. Because it has consequences in IRL, you offend someone IRL that can led to some serious hurt IRL.

Talk crap IRL, this can happen:

And I don't really care if it hurts your wee little feelings. You can cry "Free speech" all day long if you want but a the end of the day there will be consequences.

 

[Revoltingest]

I can't even laugh at that because it fits the "win without fighting" thingy. Except I can...your belly really IS yellow!!

Remember the Revoltistanian battle cry....
"Damn the torpedoes....full speed astern!"

 

[Shadow Wolf]

I was showing him how it is abridged. Because it has consequences in IRL,

You showed him you are capable of being an internet ***. Nothing more, nothing less.

You can cry "Free speech" all day long if you want but a the end of the day there will be consequences.

If I ran my mouth to you on this website the absolute worst that would happen is the mods give me another warning. Woo. You won't beat me up, no one here will. They won't even be able to find me if they tried.

 

[Revoltingest]

I am ganking "slings & arrows of outrageous posters."

Should it be "outraged posters"?
Yes....that's better.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Should it be "outraged posters"?
Yes....that's better.

Nah. Outrageous fortune, outrageous poster.

 

[Augustus]

According the to survey of 2225 U.S. college students linked to below:

- 96% think it's important to have their rights and liberties (e.g. free speech) protected on campus.
- But 57% think that "offensive" or "intolerant" views should be restricted.

Apparently, many students are unclear on the concept of free speech.

This is the reason we should be very sceptical of opinion polls where people talk about values, the results are almost entirely dependant on question wording. As such, they are generally meaningless and are best ignored. We love polls because they have nice % figures that make us think they are 'scientific', but they are mostly worthless.

For example, do you believe that colleges should be able to punish someone for calling a black student a *n word*? If so, you agree with the latter. Or does free speech restriction make you think of 'snowflakes' and 'safe spaces', in which case you might be against restrictions.

Even with precise questions your wording makes a huge difference, with vague, fuzzy statements it means next to nothing. Also it's not just about the question, but the context. You could easily make this 57% change significantly based on the wording of the previous questions and how these 'prime' the responders.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

This is the reason we should be very sceptical of opinion polls where people talk about values, the results are almost entirely dependant on question wording. As such, they are generally meaningless and are best ignored. We love polls because they have nice % figures that make us think they are 'scientific', but they are mostly worthless.

For example, do you believe that colleges should be able to punish someone for calling a black student a *n word*? If so, you agree with the latter. Or does free speech restriction make you think of 'snowflakes' and 'safe spaces', in which case you might be against restrictions.

Even with precise questions your wording makes a huge difference, with vague, fuzzy statements it means next to nothing. Also it's not just about the question, but the context. You could easily make this 57% change significantly based on the wording of the previous questions and how these 'prime' the responders.

If they were thorough they would have controlled for that by asking the same question but wording it differently.

 

[Twilight Hue]

As one matures, one learns to be less affected
by the slings & arrows of outrageous posters.

Pretty much.

After a while you start feeling like Joe Walsh. *Grin*

 

[Twilight Hue]

I am ganking "slings & arrows of outrageous posters."

Just pull or snap the stem. ;0)

 

[Kangaroo Feathers]

Are you saying that someone can only support free speech if they support entirely unconditional free speech? You can disagree with where they draw the line of acceptable free speech but that doesn't mean they've failed to understand the fundamental principle.

Qft.

That said, I believe well constructed arguments are the correct response to intolerant or hateful speech, rather than censorship.

Yes, even in the age of Donny Dollhands, although I admit some days maintaining such idealism is hard.

 

[Revoltingest]

Pretty much.

After a while you start feeling like Joe Walsh. *Grin*

I don't know him.

Ya know....insulting a poster can be shrugged off.
But don't ever insult or laugh at his mule.

 

[Shad]

That's my point. The OP is presenting that impression that there are no limits when in truth they're just applying their own interpretation of "acceptable speech".

Perhaps.

I am talking more about stuff like the Berkeley riot. When the subjects are not threats of violence and such. Merely topics people do not want to even be spoken about by anyone.

 

[HonestJoe]

Correct. Many of these students would appear to favor curtailing freedom of speech to some degree. That's terrifying.

Why? You favour curtailing freedom of speech to some degree too and I suspect that in practice, there isn't that wide a difference between your two positions.

 

[icehorse]

Why? You favour curtailing freedom of speech to some degree too and I suspect that in practice, there isn't that wide a difference between your two positions.

Throughout history free speech has been rare. What we have in the U.S. was hard fought and it's precious. ANY move to even slightly put more restrictions on free speech ought to be met with extreme resistance. Free speech is the liberty upon which all of our other liberties depend.

As for differences, I disagrees with anyone who thinks "offensive" speech should be censored.