Communism

[ChristineM]

So, im confused, why did you disagree with me?

Because what you said in post #63 and the link you provided in post #65 when i asked for confirmation are completely different
Let me remind you

You said in post #63

Oh yea, well look at the rest of that definition from google dictionary.

"a political theory derived from Karl Marx, advocating class war and leading to a society in which all property is publicly owned and each person works and is paid according to their abilities and needs.
synonyms: collectivism, state ownership, socialism, radical socialism;
Sovietism, Bolshevism, Marxism,neo-Marxism, Leninism, Marxism–Leninism, Trotskyism, Maoism
"the social and economic principles of communism"

So there, huh.
​

And in post #65 you provided a link to

communism
/ˈkɒmjʊnɪz(ə)m/
noun
noun: communism
a theory or system of social organization in which all property is owned by the community and each person contributes and receives according to their ability and needs.
synonyms: collectivism, state ownership, socialism, radical socialism; More
Sovietism, Bolshevism, Marxism, neo-Marxism, Leninism, Marxism–Leninism, Trotskyism, Maoism
"the social and economic principles of communism"
Origin

mid 19th century: from French communisme, from commun (see common).​

Confused is not the word i would use.

 

[ChristineM]

Uh, Jollybear, by that logic, capitalism is a step below Nazi fascism and the only difference is degree.

Yeah. You got it

 

[Sunstone]

NK did not develop towards Communist society, it was stunted very early on by Kim Il Sung and the rejection of Marxism for Juche philosophy.

This is quite true, but also totally irrelevant to the many among us who have no firm grasp that such a thing as truth exists, as opposed to whatever Fox News says is true on Monday.

 

[Jollybear]

Uh, Jollybear, by that logic, capitalism is a step below Nazi fascism and the only difference is degree.

Thats not true because capitalism is not a government. Its business and production.

A business cant raid your business, house, your personal life, ect. But, government can.

Communism and nazism now ARE strongly hand in hand.

 

[Sunstone]

Thats not true because capitalism is not a government. Its business and production.

A business cant raid your business, house, your personal life, ect. But, government can.

Communism and nazism now ARE strongly hand in hand.

Neither is it true that socialism is a step below communism and the only difference is degree. But let's get to the basics, Jollybear. Does truth matter to you?

 

[Jollybear]

Because what you said in post #63 and the link you provided in post #65 when i asked for confirmation are completely different
Let me remind you

You said in post #63

Oh yea, well look at the rest of that definition from google dictionary.

"a political theory derived from Karl Marx, advocating class war and leading to a society in which all property is publicly owned and each person works and is paid according to their abilities and needs.
synonyms: collectivism, state ownership, socialism, radical socialism;
Sovietism, Bolshevism, Marxism,neo-Marxism, Leninism, Marxism–Leninism, Trotskyism, Maoism
"the social and economic principles of communism"

So there, huh.
​

And in post #65 you provided a link to

communism
/ˈkɒmjʊnɪz(ə)m/
noun
noun: communism
a theory or system of social organization in which all property is owned by the community and each person contributes and receives according to their ability and needs.
synonyms: collectivism, state ownership, socialism, radical socialism; More
Sovietism, Bolshevism, Marxism, neo-Marxism, Leninism, Marxism–Leninism, Trotskyism, Maoism
"the social and economic principles of communism"
Origin

mid 19th century: from French communisme, from commun (see common).​

Confused is not the word i would use.

Your losing me. Where are you disagreeing with me? Or are you disagreeing with me?

 

[Jollybear]

Neither is it true that socialism is a step below communism and the only difference is degree. But let's get to the basics, Jollybear. Does truth matter to you?

I believe based on communisms definition and socialisms definition, that they are similar and that its a matter of degree.

Yes, truth matters to me. Lies certainly dont matter to me, lol. But, who willfully loves lies?

Let me ask you this. Do you agree with this graph? >

communist spectrum graph - Google Search

 

[Jollybear]

WW2 was predominantly a Communist vs Nazi war. They do not go in hand, they have been antagonistic in every single context which they have existed.

I think thats oversimplified.

 

[Jollybear]

That's a laughable political spectrum. I'd be surprised if you could find a single political scientist to validate it.
If you cannot see the right wing bias present in declaring the far-left tyranny and the far-right liberty I don't know what to tell you.

I think its totally logical.

Think about it.

Fascism is big government. Communism is big government control.

Libertarianism is small government. Anarcism is no government.

It should be common sense.

 

[ChristineM]

Your losing me. Where are you disagreeing with me? Or are you disagreeing with me?

Your two post i note totally disagree, if you are unable to see that ot more likely, admit that then i see no point in continuing

 

[Jollybear]

Your two post i note totally disagree, if you are unable to see that ot more likely, admit that then i see no point in continuing

What? There is no contradiction in anything i said at all. if you are unable to see that or more likely, admit that then i see no point in continuing

 

[Sunstone]

I believe based on communisms definition and socialisms definition, that they are similar and that its a matter of degree.

Yes, truth matters to me. Lies certainly dont matter to me, lol. But, who willfully loves lies?

Let me ask you this. Do you agree with this graph? >

communist spectrum graph - Google Search

I agree the graph is moronic. That's what I agree with.

 

[Jollybear]

I agree the graph is moronic. That's what I agree with.

Why is it moronic?

The bigger the government, the more it controls(taxes, regulations), the smaller the government the less it controlls(less taxes, less regulations).

Should be simple common sense.

 

[Prometheus85]

Sure, ill go with that.

Like i said, socialism is a step BELOW communism. Its a matter of DEGREE.

I like keeping my words streaght and simple, to the point.

I just told you the differences between socialism and communism and yet you’re still using the words interchangeably. You’re literally arguing in circles.

 

[atanu]

And in correctimg its problems, they destroy production and destroy its country.

Not true.

Organised, subversive, and often violent anti communism movement distorted and hindered application of communism in many countries. Social democrats, liberals, fascists, religious fundamentalists have all worked together to safeguard their own interests. Common people are swayed by sophisticated propaganda of the stinky rich people.

Anti-communism - Wikipedia

 

[Sunstone]

Why is it moronic?

The bigger the government, the more it controls(taxes, regulations), the smaller the government the less it controlls(less taxes, less regulations).

Should be simple common sense.

That's what passes for common sense these days? Dude! That is pre-scientific reasoning! You are 500 years behind the times. I am not joking. Where the hell is your empirical evidence? Science is logic PLUS empirical confirmation. You have no confirmation of your logic. JEEBERS! 500 years, Jollybear! 500 years!

 

[Jollybear]

Your conception of the political spectrum is erroneous. While capitalist-Libertarianism and Anarchism(also called libertarian socialism) are both small government, Anarchism is a far-left phenomena. Anarchists typically reject capitalism and state structure ( see: Noam Chomsky, Kropotkin, Big Bill Haywood, etc.). Libertarian was a word also initially coined and used by socialists, and is still associated with Socialism in many countries outside of North America and Western Europe.

Fascism has big government, but it is big government for the purpose of maintaining private capital and capitalist productive relations.

Communists want a state to suppress capitalism and counter-revolutionary forces which would like to restore it.

These are qualitative differences your spectrum does not account for, instead it opts for a really distorted spectrum where right wing = "liberty" and left wing = "tyranny". It is nothing but trying to set up definitions in such a way to make the left-wing a bad thing, rather than presenting what left wing ideologies actually believe.

Oh boy oh boy.......

Ok, let me approuch this another way.

Im talking about a political spectrum here, not what individuals believe in, which individual beliefs could be all over the board of the spectrum on diverse issues. At this point i care not what individuals believe.

Now, apart from definitions. Do you agree with my statement here >

The bigger the government, the more it taxes, owns and regulates and controls. The smaller the government, the less it taxes, owns and regulates and controls.

Do you agree with that statement?

 

[Jollybear]

That's what passes for common sense these days? Dude! That is pre-scientific reasoning! You are 500 years behind the times. I am not joking. Where the hell is your empirical evidence? Science is logic PLUS empirical confirmation. You have no confirmation of your logic. JEEBERS! 500 years, Jollybear! 500 years!

You didnt answer my question of why is it moronic, and yet you wanna talk to me about emperical evidence?

 

[Jollybear]

Not true.

Organised, subversive, and often violent anti communism movement distorted and hindered application of communism in many countries. Social democrats, liberals, fascists, religious fundamentalists have all worked together to safeguard their own interests. Common people are swayed by sophisticated propaganda of the stinky rich people.

Anti-communism - Wikipedia

If it wernt for the "stinky ritch" youd not have your computer in order to send me your stinky message.

 

[Jollybear]

I just told you the differences between socialism and communism and yet you’re still using the words interchangeably. You’re literally arguing in circles.

No im not using them interchangably. Your not listening to me. But, thats because you dont want to listen.