Comparitive Politics of RF Members.

[Alceste]

Yeah, it is true that the term "socialist" will elicit a knee-jerk reaction from most Americans. It's a dirty word that conjurers up a platoon of straw men.

I know - it actually makes it impossible to even discuss politics in a reasonable fashion with many Americans. Often, their entire range of political awareness covers only the span between Obama and Hitler: that's the tiny increment between an authoritarian capitalist and a fascist. Obama is the most leftist leader they can imagine, and they're absolutely terrified of him, even though he's still the most right-wing leader in the Western world, by a pretty wide margin.

Actually, when a new definition becomes common, that's when it changes. No matter the reason,
even a small fringe minority conspiring to subvert French origins, common usage governs all.
I'm curious....
If you were to say that performing Celtic music were your forte, how would you pronounce "forte"?
(Please answer without researching first.....it's more fun this way.)
What is the correct pronunciation? What criterion would determine that?

Parenthetical aside: I'm surprised how rigidly the supposed progressives are in so many ways.
Even we backsliding extremists can at times better face & adapt to change.

Regarding an earlier post, we don't use the French word "libertaire". "Libertarian" is an English word.
Does "libertarian" even exist in French? You might be simply experiencing a translation problem.

Ya know, we could've avoided all this word rustling if you leftists hadn't appropriated & subverted
the word "liberal". We'd be the "Liberal Party", & the Europeans would be less confused.

I'm sorry Revoltingest, but Americans can't unilaterally change the meanings of words on behalf of the entire English speaking world. How well has trying to get all those "u"s taken out of words like "odour" and "neighbour" worked for you? Not well at all, I'd say. Other English speaking people all over the world still insist on spelling those words, and many others, correctly.

Likewise, we still insist on knowing what the word "libertarian" means, no matter how hard Americans try to forget, or reinvent.

FYI, in language, when an alternative word usage becomes common, it doesn't obliterate all the other uses of the word, especially if they are ALSO extremely common. (Evidence: this test). It is simply added to them.

Like this:

Etymology

1789 liberty +‎ -arian

[show ▼]sense changes​

Pronunciation

• (RP) IPA: /ˌlɪbəˈtɛəɹjən/

Noun

libertarian (plural libertarians)

1. One who advocates liberty either generally or on a specific issue, e.g. "civil libertarian" (in favour of civil liberties).
2. (chiefly US) A believer in a political doctrine that emphasizes individual liberty and a lack of governmental regulation and oversight both in matters of the economy ('free market') and in personal behavior where no one's rights are being violated or threatened. Also 'classical liberal', akin to 'anarcho-capitalist'.
3. (chiefly Europe) An anarchist, typically with socialist implications.
4. In the philosophy branch of metaphysics, a believer in thinking beings' freedom to choose their own destiny, i.e. a believer in free will as opposed to those who believe the future is predetermined.

 

[Tarheeler]

Jeez, will you stop saying that! Canadians in general have no trouble differentiating between libertarianism socialism and libertarian capitalism. Americans have weird aversions to words describing various leftist political philosophies that Canadians just don't have. If you use the word socialist in a conversation with a Canadian, they don't get confused or outraged, or start forming citizens militias to fight off the coming UN invasion.

Wait, you mean there are actually people up there?!?!

 

[Pastek]

Here it is :

 

[Flankerl]

It is in N America.
Moreover, we don't use the French word "libertaire". "Libertarian" is an English word. Does "libertarian" even exist in French?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libertarian_Communist_Organization_(France)
OCL - Organisation Communiste Libertaire

 

[mycorrhiza]

Economic Left/Right: -9.75
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -8.82

 

[Revoltingest]

How's that private news media and private prison system working out?

Well, the private media thing works well enuf.....we have a variety of perspectives from which to select.
Quality is highly variable, but I find a variety of lies to beat a single source of truth (which isn't true either).
It seems vastly superior to countries where the media are government owned.
As for the prisons, I've yet to experience gov't or private prisons, so I can't evaluate them.
If some day I'm caught, prosecuted, & tossed in the slammer...I'll post my reviews for all.
But thanx for asking!

 

[Revoltingest]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libertarian_Communist_Organization_(France)
OCL - Organisation Communiste Libertaire

Thanx for the links!
I searched the French site, & the word "libertarian" was not to be found.
So I speculate that "libertarian" is an English (not French) word, & has a different definition from "libertaire".

Words with common roots often evolve to have different meanings in different languages.
Consider "gymnasium". In German, it's a secondary school. In English, it's an exercise facility.

 

[Revoltingest]

I'm sorry Revoltingest, but Americans can't unilaterally change the meanings of words on behalf of the entire English speaking world.

America needs no permission from backwoods anti-evolutionist Canuckistanian pedants. Like its biological analogue,
language has no central authority intelligently designing it. It is a stochastic process which simply unfolds before us.
Even your fellow frozen northerners have ditched the fossilized French definition to which you so desperately cling.
We are "libertarians", not "libertaire". BTW, the offer to join us is still open....& we'll spice up your poutine with bacon.

How well has trying to get all those "u"s taken out of words like "odour" and "neighbour" worked for you? Not well at all, I'd say. Other English speaking people all over the world still insist on spelling those words, and many others, correctly.

Putting in an extra "u" will cause your motorcycle to leak oil.
I have a 1970 Triumph, so I know.

FYI, in language, when an alternative word usage becomes common, it doesn't obliterate all the other uses of the word, especially if they are ALSO extremely common. (Evidence: this test). It is simply added to them.

1. (chiefly Europe) An anarchist, typically with socialist implications.
2. In the philosophy branch of metaphysics, a believer in thinking beings' freedom to choose their own destiny, i.e. a believer in free will as opposed to those who believe the future is predetermined.

But we aren't in Europe, are we?

 

[Flankerl]

Thanx for the links!
I searched the French site, & the word "libertarian" was not to be found.
So I speculate that "libertarian" is an English (not French) word, & has a different definition from "libertaire".

Words with common roots often evolve to have different meanings in different languages.
Consider "gymnasium". In German, it's a secondary school. In English, it's an exercise facility.

There you go. What we stand for ? - OCL - Organisation Communiste Libertaire

But if you want a more "right" view of libertarianism there is the Liberal Alternative which appareantly also has a libertarian wing.


Do you also know that there is Libertarian socialism?

 

[Revoltingest]

There you go. What we stand for ? - OCL - Organisation Communiste Libertaire
But if you want a more "right" view of libertarianism there is the Liberal Alternative which appareantly also has a libertarian wing.
Do you also know that there is Libertarian socialism?

I'm aware of what you post, but I'm only addressing the definition of "libertarian" in N America.
Both Canada & USA have a Libertarian Party, & those parties favor liberty in both social & economic areas.
When one calls oneself a libertarian here (either big "L" or small), there is no doubt of this meaning.
Here, "libertarian socialist" is oxymoronic, since socialism opposes economic liberty. And we already
have a name for that group, ie, "liberal". And yes, I know that we use even that word differently from
Europeans. I go with what works. I'd be OK with recapturing the classical definition of "liberal", to
replace "libertarian", but it ain't happening.

"Libertaire" is not "libertarian".

 

[jasonwill2]

...Obama is still better than the other choices.

 

[Revoltingest]

...Obama is still better than the other choices.

Only if one likes the results he delivers.
I prefer others.

 

[Flankerl]

"Libertaire" is not "libertarian".

I'm sorry to say this but you dont own the word "libertarian", "liberal", "conservative", "socialist", etc.

Just because in the US libertarians want something in a certain way doesnt mean that the rest of the world loses the right to be libertarian in their own way.


You know here in germany is a party called "Die Republikaner/The Republicans". Its a extreme right/neo-nazi party. Does this make the US republicans wrong republicans?

 

[Apex]

I'm sorry to say this but you dont own the word "libertarian", "liberal", "conservative", "socialist", etc.

Just because in the US libertarians want something in a certain way doesnt mean that the rest of the world loses the right to be libertarian in their own way.


You know here in germany is a party called "Die Republikaner/The Republicans". Its a extreme right/neo-nazi party. Does this make the US republicans wrong republicans?

I thought Rev was arguing about the definition as it applies here, not the rest of the world...

Seriously, you guys seem to be getting upset over nothing. Definitions do not need to be consistent between nations. Should we start arguing about what a "chip" actually is? Or "crisps"? How about a "rubber"? (that is an eraser in Germany for the US people who just started snickering)

 

[Revoltingest]

I'm sorry to say this but you dont own the word "libertarian", "liberal", "conservative", "socialist", etc.

Of course, but no one (including Europeans) do.

Just because in the US libertarians want something in a certain way doesnt mean that the rest of the world loses the right to be libertarian in their own way.

You may use the word as you please.
But if you reread my posts, you'll see that I addressed the use of "libertarian" in N America.
We were put in this position by the leftists, who took the word "liberal", & redefined it to include an economic authoritarian component. So we appropriated "libertarian" as our own.
Don't blame me....I didn't do it.

You know here in germany is a party called "Die Republikaner/The Republicans". Its a extreme right/neo-nazi party. Does this make the US republicans wrong republicans?

It points out that words which are similar in different languages have different meanings....QED.

 

[Flankerl]

Seriously, you guys seem to be getting upset over nothing.

Who's upset? Its just a misunderstanding.




Sorry Revoltingest.

 

[Revoltingest]

I thought Rev was arguing about the definition as it applies here, not the rest of the world...

To be fair to my loyal opposition, I have on other occasions argued that everyone should adopt the N American definition.
Perhaps some confuse the current discussion with my earlier more mirthful provocation, eh?

 

[Revoltingest]

Who's upset? Its just a misunderstanding.
Sorry Revoltingest.

Don't you dare be sorry!
I've found the discussion illuminating, so we be good.
And it seems that everyone was having fun & building their post count (what really matters most).

 

[Revoltingest]

OK....took the test again.
Dang! So many different ways to see each question, but I'm still purple.

 

[Father Heathen]

I'm sorry Revoltingest, but Americans can't unilaterally change the meanings of words on behalf of the entire English speaking world. How well has trying to get all those "u"s taken out of words like "odour" and "neighbour" worked for you? Not well at all, I'd say. Other English speaking people all over the world still insist on spelling those words, and many others, correctly.

What do you mean "hasn't worked", as if those who didn't adopt the changes were relevant? Languages evolve, that's why we don't speak old or middle english anymore. We've simply been innovating and streamlining the language, discarding the bits that are inconsistent, inefficient and arbitrary. The vestigial "U" has no phonic function. Also, how does "re" make an "er" sound? You know, just movin' forward is all we're trying to do. Also the term "gasoline" predates "petrol", the later of which was originally a brand name. That's as dumb as calling all sodas "Coke" regardless of actual brand. A lot of the terms that non-U.S. english speakers whine about more often than not predate their obscure bastardizations. And if Z is is "zed" rather than "zee" because of "zeta", then B should be "bed" rather than 'bee" because of beta. Consistency and logic, that's all we're aimin' for. Now this probably doesn't apply to you, but those whose accents don't even make distinctions between different vowel sounds have no place whining about other people's use of the language.

Now, metric is superior to imperial, I'll give you that. Not that it has anything to do with language.