Concept of Brahman in Hinduism

[sayak83]

Two things -

1. I should point out that this difficulty is only with the abstract Nirguna Brahman as defined by Advaita. Other schools such as Vishi****advaita and Dvaita see Brahman as Sriman Narayana himself and so, there is no confusion about ultimately unreal universes and ultimately unreal gods (Saguna Brahman). It is very simple and straight forward.

2. The Kena verses you have posted can be interpreted directly on the basis of Brahman = Narayana.

Not many practicing Hindus are reflective enough to delve into the philosophy behind Hinduism and are more into simple devotion. In my experience.

 

[sayak83]

My answer to your question would need an explanation of what you hope to gain or learn from this Brahman religion?

And also if this is one of those Buddhist spin offs that only limits one to only reaching nirvana, consciousness, or promotes that one can "never know"?

As a follower of Hinduism, I do try to understand the metaphysical underpinnings of the worldview. This discussion is an attempt towards that end.

 

[WhyIsThatSo]

What makes you think that these two are same?

If I understand correctly, the goal for Hindus is to become "one" with Brahman. To be "absorbed" back into the "ultimate reality".
This idea is akin to spiritual suicide. If we ever return to the ultimate Source, we will cease to be, we will cease to exist.

 

[WhyIsThatSo]

What makes you think that these two are same?

If I understand correctly, the goal for Hindus is to become "one" with Brahman. To be "absorbed" back into the "ultimate reality".
This idea is akin to spiritual suicide. If we ever return to the ultimate Source, we will cease to be, we will cease to exist.
The True Father would never desire this, but this is exactly what the Demiurge in Gnosticism desires.

 

[WhyIsThatSo]

Not all. Only those who are insincere. We can all be that, but it need not be what defines us. For some, there is nothing else yet realized. No authentic self yet.

I agree....and I can smell insincerity a mile away

 

[WhyIsThatSo]

What makes you believe this?

I'm sure you know there is a "dark side" to Hinduism just as there is Christianity. And too many are controlled by it.
Everybody wants to be a "superman", but nobody wants the Godly responsibilities that go with it.

 

[WhyIsThatSo]

"In this world", that is what we perceive with our limited senses and evolution-influenced mind. What exactly your are is cloud of energy and if a pin is inserted into your body, it never touches anything. That is how substantial we are. Sure, funny. But that is what it is.

I agree.....and would carry the thought even further by saying that NOTHING in this world is what it appears to be.

 

[sayak83]

If I understand correctly, the goal for Hindus is to become "one" with Brahman. To be "absorbed" back into the "ultimate reality".
This idea is akin to spiritual suicide. If we ever return to the ultimate Source, we will cease to be, we will cease to exist.

Only the ego-self ceases to exist. But the ego self is a momentary construct only. Your past ego self has already died.. to be replaced by the present ego self.. and so on interminably. The thing in you that is permanent is this unitary self luminous awareness-knowledge and is both immortal and of the same essence as all of reality. That never stops existing.

 

[WhyIsThatSo]

Only the ego-self ceases to exist. But the ego self is a momentary construct only. Your past ego self has already died.. to be replaced by the present ego self.. and so on interminably. The thing in you that is permanent is this unitary self luminous awareness-knowledge and is both immortal and of the same essence as all of reality. That never stops existing.

That's true. And this "unitary self luminous awareness-knowledge " ( "Light") that is immortal and of the same essence, is called "spirit"...
who and what we really are.

And yes, every incarnation requires a "soul".....a temporary character (self) to play the roll. Until we come to the realization of "Self",
our True Self. And this is who we should be looking to reunite with, to become "one" with ….our True Self.

This True Self is androgynous (Male and Female). And this union that we should be looking forward to is the true "marriage" of our Being.
Everything here is but a type and a shadow of the true reality.....earthly marriage, sex, family relationships, and every human relationship here has a meaning and purpose far beyond what the physical eye can see.

 

[Jainarayan]

And very much like an Italian can learn absolutely nothing about Italian customs from a non-Italian ?

Not really. Not if they haven’t lived it and just read or observed.

 

[Jainarayan]

If I understand correctly, the goal for Hindus is to become "one" with Brahman. To be "absorbed" back into the "ultimate reality".

That’s Advaita, which only a portion of Hindus subscribe to. It’s more prominent among Shaivas, and possibly Shaktas. Vaishnavas are more likely to be some flavor or degree of dualistic. Moreover, in Advaita thought there nothing to be absorbed into or reunited with, because there was never any separation of the Self from Brahman.

 

[sayak83]

That's true. And this "unitary self luminous awareness-knowledge " ( "Light") that is immortal and of the same essence, is called "spirit"...
who and what we really are.

And yes, every incarnation requires a "soul".....a temporary character (self) to play the roll. Until we come to the realization of "Self",
our True Self. And this is who we should be looking to reunite with, to become "one" with ….our True Self.

This True Self is androgynous (Male and Female). And this union that we should be looking forward to is the true "marriage" of our Being.
Everything here is but a type and a shadow of the true reality.....earthly marriage, sex, family relationships, and every human relationship here has a meaning and purpose far beyond what the physical eye can see.

In Hinduism Brahman is clearly indicated to be the designator of this true self.

 

[WhyIsThatSo]

Only the ego-self ceases to exist. But the ego self is a momentary construct only. Your past ego self has already died.. to be replaced by the present ego self.. and so on interminably. The thing in you that is permanent is this unitary self luminous awareness-knowledge and is both immortal and of the same essence as all of reality. That never stops existing.

That's true. And this "unitary self luminous awareness-knowledge " ( "Light") that is immortal and of the same essence, is called "spirit"...
who and what we really are.

And yes, every incarnation requires a "soul".....a temporary character (self) to play the roll. Until we come to the realization of "Self",
our True Self. And this is who we should be looking to reunite with, to become "one" with ….our True Self.

This True Self is androgynous (Male and Female). And this union that we should be looking forward to is the true "marriage" of our Being.
Everything here is but a type and a shadow of the true reality.....earthly marriage, sex, family relationships, and every human relationship here has a meaning and purpose far beyond what the physical eye can see.

In Hinduism Brahman is clearly indicated to be the designator of this true self.

Yes, I understand that too. Hinduism is probably the closest thing to the truth of understanding our human existence here, as far as "religions" go.

But when one investigates further it's evident (to me anyway) that there is something very vital missing, as far as how it relates to our human condition. From what I have read and studied of it's teachings, there is a huge detachment in many ways from what it means to be "human".
Even though it does attempt to define what it means to be "human"...
much like Christianity, being patriarchal, there is also a tendency to denigrate the divine feminine.

 

[Ancient Soul]

As a follower of Hinduism, I do try to understand the metaphysical underpinnings of the worldview. This discussion is an attempt towards that end.

Then I get the impression from your answer that you only want a mental exercise, so then this Brahman dogma should be right for you.

However, if you are seeking spiritual answers, then no.

 

[ManSinha]

As @Aupmanyav and I have discussed in a thread started by @SalixIncendium - my personal belief is the Sikhism is Adwaita for the masses - there are a number of verses which speak to merging with the One once the life span is done as for example

and

And on a slightly different tangent - the consideration that the Divine dwells in all of us - also IMO a nod to the fact that the Divine is not external (not the old man with a beard in the sky) concept

 

[Aupmanyav]

I agree.....and would carry the thought even further by saying that NOTHING in this world is what it appears to be.

I wholly agree to that.

The thing in you that is permanent is this unitary self luminous awareness-knowledge and is both immortal and of the same essence as all of reality. That never stops existing.

Well, I have doubts about that (that is a civil statement). The rude , frank statement without camouflaging truth is that nothing like that exists. But, of course, all people do not have the same view.

However, if you are seeking spiritual answers, then no.

IMHO, there is nothing more spiritual and scientific than accepting the truth, which is that all things in the world, living or non-living, are constituted by energy that existed at the time of Big Bang, that we are all one, we are ourselves the force that we have been searching for.
That is what the Mahavakyas (Great sayings) in Hinduism have said:
"Aham Brahmasmi" (I am Brahman), "Ayamatma Brahman" (This self is Brahman), "So Aham" (I too am that)
"Tat twam asi" (That is what you are), "Eko Brahma, Dwiteeyo nasti" (Brahman is one, there is no second).

Why must we have a false belief in God, soul, rebirth, heaven, hell, judgment, deliverance to have spirituality?

- my personal belief is the Sikhism is Adwaita for the masses - there are a number of verses which speak to merging with the One once the life span is done as for example..

That is true, Man; Sri Guru Nanak Sahebji, Sant Kabeer Dasji and Syed Abdullah Shah Qadri (Bulle Shah) were all advatists.
Advaita, IMHO, is the pinacle of spirituality.

"Avval aakhar aap nu jaana, na koi dooja hor pachchana."
(I am the first, I am the last, I do not know any second)
Syed Abdullah Shah Qadri (Bulle Shah, 1680-1757)

Dargah Hazrat Baba Bulle Shah, Kasur, Punjab, Pakistan; Kabir Chaura, Magahar, Uttar Pradesh, India

 

[PearlSeeker]

Hinduism is probably the closest thing to the truth of understanding our human existence here, as far as "religions" go.

/.../

Even though it does attempt to define what it means to be "human"...
much like Christianity, being patriarchal, there is also a tendency to denigrate the divine feminine.

What about Shakti and Lakshmi? And Mother Mary? And Shekhinah?

 

[WhyIsThatSo]

What about Shakti and Lakshmi? And Mother Mary? And Shekhinah?

Yes, these are all mentioned , but only in passing, and never on equal footing.

 

[Aupmanyav]

That is not true, WhyisThatSo. Shakta tradition is one of the four most important traditions (Vaishnava, Shaiva, Shakta and Smarta-Vedic). A huge number of people fast during the nine day celebration of the Mother Goddess Durga, even those who do not belong to the Shakta tradition, twice in a year (in April and in October) including our Prime Minister, Mr. Narendra Modi, and the Chief Minister of our most populous state, Uttar Pradesh (pop. 240 million people), Yogi Aditya Nath. It is a big occasion in the whole of our country. Gujarat to Bengal, Assam, Kashmir to Tamilnadu.
NAVRTRI IN iNDIA at DuckDuckGo
(worship of the nine forms of Mother Goddess Durga)

 

[WhyIsThatSo]

That is not true, WhyisThatSo. Shakta tradition is one of the four most important traditions (Vaishnava, Shaiva, Shakta and Smarta-Vedic). A huge number of people fast during the nine day celebration of the Mother Goddess Durga, even those who do not belong to the Shakta tradition, twice in a year (in April and in October) including our Prime Minister, Mr. Narendra Modi, and the Chief Minister of our most populous state, Uttar Pradesh (pop. 240 million people), Yogi Aditya Nath. It is a big occasion in the whole of our country. Gujarat to Bengal, Assam, Kashmir to Tamilnadu.
NAVRTRI IN iNDIA at DuckDuckGo
(worship of the nine forms of Mother Goddess Durga)

Yes, I'm aware of many of the deities of the Hindu pantheon. There are so many it seems you have one for just about every area of life,
"War Goddesses" included. But I was referring to how the sacred feminine is no where to be found in the hearts and minds of people, only patronized in some obscure way with religious festival. I think the human rights records for women in both our countries (especially yours) speaks for itself in this regard.