Condemns ISIS for war and hate but okay with Catholic church's past atrocities for centuries?

[Rival]

Don't be.

Je pense donc je suis!

I like your new one btw.

 

[Pudding]

Je pense donc je suis!

I like your new one btw.

Yes, the old one can be seen as optimistic due to its colourful and crystal clear feeling then the new one is like corrupted and pessimistic.
But the new one still can be seen as being reconstruct to become better in an optimistic way.
But you're right that generally the new one can be more depressed.
You like the new one make you feeling depressed?

 

[Rival]

Yes, the old one can be seen as optimistic due to its colourful and crystal clear feeling then the new one is like corrupted and pessimistic.
But the new one still can be seen as being reconstruct to become better in an optimistic way.
But you're right that generally the new one can be more depressed.
You like the new one make you feeling depressed?

I was kidding, you'd just had your old one for so long and I liked it.

 

[Pudding]

I was kidding, you'd just had your old one for so long and I liked it.

I see.

 

[Ingledsva]

I can't recall seeing anyone on RF saying they are OK with past atrocities.

Where are you seeing Christians saying that? What exactly have they said?

I might point out that most people are not able to time travel so they don't spend that much of their time trying to change things that happened hundreds of years ago. Many people understand that we really only exist in present time, so what is currently happening is the only things that we can actually change.

If we wish to spend our time being angry about the wrongs committed over the past hundreds, or thousands of years, I don't believe any group of people remains innocent.

Actually we have had people say exactly that. One man in particular said the slaughter of innocent infants and children was fine because God knows the future. EDIT - Forgot - and created us thus owns us.

He also said the Spanish slaughter in South America was fine - for the same reasons, - and because - the means - led to the desired result = Christianity.

Very sad.

*

 

[Ingledsva]

...The OP is talking about serious harm being done to others. Can you give us some examples, or at least the context and argument you've seen where people are okay with it in the same way some might be okay with the activities of ISIS today? Do you see Christians on RF supporting forced conversions, killing, torturing, burning, etc. people today?....

Actually Christians and Muslims are killing each other to this day.

In Africa Christians have been torturing, and burning alive, people they call witches. Recently.

*

 

[4consideration]

Actually we have had people say exactly that. One man in particular said the slaughter of innocent infants and children was fine because God knows the future.

He also said the Spanish slaughter in South America was fine - for the same reasons, - and because - the means led to the desired result = Christianity.

Very sad.

*

That is sad.

 

[4consideration]

Actually Christians and Muslims are killing each other to this day.

In Africa Christians have been torturing, and burning alive, people they call witches. Recently.

*

That is terrible.

Do you think these are the same people that are on RF? And is the Catholic church doing these things?

I ask because of the way the OP posed the situation specifically regarding Catholics, as though those condemning the atrocities of ISIS should not be affiliated with the Catholic church because of past atrocities within and by the church.

I don't really care whether or not someone wants to be Catholic, I just don't see the two points ought to be considered mutually exclusive (condemning ISIS, being Catholic.)

So... You condemn ISIS for the atrocities that might have killed around a few million in the last few years.
But 1.2 billion people are okay being the member of the church that slaughtered people globally in many many millions over 1600 years?

This quest is posed to Ingledsva. I've only quoted it here to refer back to the specific questions of the OP.

Do you consider that because of past atrocities of the Catholic church, Catholics should not condemn the atrocities of ISIS? Or, that Catholics should stop being Catholic before they have the right to condemn the atrocities going on now with ISIS?

 

[JustWondering]

I'm curious what the point is of judging today's Catholic Church by the actions of yesterday's Catholic Church? Are you perhaps suggesting that the Church still engages in atrocities? Or that it might someday once again engage in atrocities?

What's history is history, but they continue doing really shady stuff. If they engaged in atrocities before, what's keeping them from doing it again?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ustaše#Connections_with_the_Catholic_Church
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/03/09/vatican-money-laundering_n_1334704.html
http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/story?id=4656143
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duplessis_Orphans
https://www.pcusa.org/news/2011/12/20/philippine-catholic-church-odds-health-department-/

 

[Ingledsva]

...This quest is posed to Ingledsva. I've only quoted it here to refer back to the specific questions of the OP.

Do you consider that because of past atrocities of the Catholic church, Catholics should not condemn the atrocities of ISIS? Or, that Catholics should stop being Catholic before they have the right to condemn the atrocities going on now with ISIS?

1. Definitely not. All atrocities past and present should be acknowledged, and condemned.

2. Why would we stop with Catholics? Most of the religions of Abraham have committed atrocities, and they ALL trace back to the Hebrew, whom committed atrocities, and had laws allowing slavery, rape, murder of different, etc. And a God that killed the innocent for the crimes of others, etc.

*

 

[metis]

We need to at least somewhat separate atrocities done for primarily religious reasons versus those done primarily for political reasons, although sometimes in history there's an overlap of the two.

 

[Sonofason]

ISIS is dubbed as unIslamic by many for their violent and inhumane treatment of people.
But the Catholic church that destroyed sacred pagan temples all over Europe, forcefully converted millions, started wars with their neighbors in the name of religion in Europe and in Israel.
StArted the LGBT persecution, burning atheists and scientists to death and also even protestant who are also Christians.
Later caused the witchunts that killed millions of women, Spanish inquisition that spread all over Europe except maybe England.
Catholic emissaries destroyed native indian lands, killing everyone and practically making them extinct.
Coming to India and forcefully converting people to their religion.

So... You condemn ISIS for the atrocities that might have killed around a few million in the last few years.
But 1.2 billion people are okay being the member of the church that slaughtered people globally in many many millions over 1600 years?

And before the blame game starts, I m a Buddhist and not a fanatical Muslim.
And just curious about the possible reasons that wants to be members of this community.

Just ask a member of ISIS if he believes he is non-Islamic.
Human beings get accustomed to their way of life and when that way of life becomes threatened in any way, we tend to try to eliminate the threats. What the Catholic church did in the past, they did for a reason. They were justified. Please don't think that this means that you justify what they did. They are all dead now, and don't need your justification for their deeds. Do you suggest we not destroy ISIS because some dead members of the Catholic Church weren't properly punished?

 

[Subhankar Zac]

Just ask a member of ISIS if he believes he is non-Islamic.
Human beings get accustomed to their way of life and when that way of life becomes threatened in any way, we tend to try to eliminate the threats. What the Catholic church did in the past, they did for a reason. They were justified. Please don't think that this means that you justify what they did. They are all dead now, and don't need your justification for their deeds. Do you suggest we not destroy ISIS because some dead members of the Catholic Church weren't properly punished?

I suggest that one must treat the Catholic, Baptist and other Christian terror groups (also a safe haven for child rapists) to be treated in the exact method ISIS should be.
There's a saying: A rapist cannot a judge a murderer nor can a murderer judge a torturer.
So, your views on this matter, doesn't matter at all.

 

[Sonofason]

You sir, are either incapable of reading English or funding loopholes to somehow dodge the question by twisting what I asked.
I asked about the membership with a church that has slaughtered millions, not what they are doing right now.

You are a member of the human race. Human beings have a horrible history of slaughtering one another. And yet, you continue being a member?

I suggest that one must treat the Catholic, Baptist and other Christian terror groups (also a safe haven for child rapists) to be treated in the exact method ISIS should be.
There's a saying: A rapist cannot a judge a murderer nor can a murderer judge a torturer.
So, your views on this matter, doesn't matter at all.

Yes, any person caught harming other individuals should be severely punished if not brutally killed.

 

[Sonofason]

What's history is history, but they continue doing really shady stuff. If they engaged in atrocities before, what's keeping them from doing it again?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ustaše#Connections_with_the_Catholic_Church
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/03/09/vatican-money-laundering_n_1334704.html
http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/story?id=4656143
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duplessis_Orphans
https://www.pcusa.org/news/2011/12/20/philippine-catholic-church-odds-health-department-/

Yes, I agree... Lets start punishing people for what they might do. That would be awesome and great.

 

[Subhankar Zac]

You are a member of the human race. Human beings have a horrible history of slaughtering one another. And yet, you continue being a member?

Yes, any person caught harming other individuals should be severely punished if not brutally killed.

1. Being human isn't a choice, burning people at the stakes based on their religion is.
2. By your logic you cannot ask for punishing the ISIS members as well.
3. And no, I m not a member of the human race. My body is that of humans where I reside temporarily.
True identity is the self, not the body.

The popes were safe from this rule under the law of subjugating others.

 

[Sonofason]

1. Being human isn't a choice, burning people at the stakes based on their religion is.
2. By your logic you cannot ask for punishing the ISIS members as well.
3. And no, I m not a member of the human race. My body is that of humans where I reside temporarily.
True identity is the self, not the body.

The popes were safe from this rule under the law of subjugating others.

1. Being a living breathing human being is definitely a choice.
2. I do not have to ask anyone to do anything I'm not willing and prepared to do myself.
3. whatever

 

[The Emperor of Mankind]

You are a member of the human race. Human beings have a horrible history of slaughtering one another. And yet, you continue being a member?

One can stop being a Catholic; one cannot stop being human.

 

[Sonofason]

One can stop being a Catholic; one cannot stop being human.

My mother and father are dead, and burned. They are not human beings any longer. They are nothing but ashes. You most certainly can stop being a human being.

 

[Agondonter]

ISIS is dubbed as unIslamic by many for their violent and inhumane treatment of people.
But the Catholic church that destroyed sacred pagan temples all over Europe, forcefully converted millions, started wars with their neighbors in the name of religion in Europe and in Israel.
StArted the LGBT persecution, burning atheists and scientists to death and also even protestant who are also Christians.
Later caused the witchunts that killed millions of women, Spanish inquisition that spread all over Europe except maybe England.
Catholic emissaries destroyed native indian lands, killing everyone and practically making them extinct.
Coming to India and forcefully converting people to their religion.

So... You condemn ISIS for the atrocities that might have killed around a few million in the last few years.
But 1.2 billion people are okay being the member of the church that slaughtered people globally in many many millions over 1600 years?

And before the blame game starts, I m a Buddhist and not a fanatical Muslim.
And just curious about the possible reasons that wants to be members of this community.

It's history. Get over it.

No sane person believes those who commit atrocities in the name of Christ are actually following his teachings or example. The same cannot be said for Mohammedans. Christianity had a reformation because of Christ's teachings and example; Islamic terrorists, on the other hand, are simply following in Muhamed's footsteps.