Confused about Sikhism/Hinduism differences

[Sb1995]

Punjab is a prosperous state, but it has a serious drug and alcohol problem. Prakash Singh Badal, the Akali Chief Minister, his family and associates are not supposed to be very honest. That is why Akali Dal suffered a setback in the recent elections.

India has an Alcohol problem, not only Punjab.

 

[Aupmanyav]

No problem if not in excess. Government should make it cheaper. That would avoid the problem of illicit liquor.

 

[Poeticus]

No problem if not in excess. Government should make it cheaper. That would avoid the problem of illicit liquor.

The heroin coming from Afghanistan via Pakistan is destroying the youth of Punjab. Yes, understandable is the notion that India---overall---has a drug problem, if not just a concern with drugs. But the Indian state of Punjab has higher rates of drug abuse than any other Indian state. The border police in the Punjab is also complicit in trans-border smuggling of heroin.

In regards to alcohol, that's strictly a Punjab & Haryana issue. I was in Pune a few years back. On every Royal Stag I encountered, it was written in big capital letters: "Made in Haryana"; "Made in Punjab". Apart from these two, I didn't see a "Made in Maharashtra". The case of heroin abuse is complicated since there are many factors in play, but the concern of alcoholism in the Punjab isn't. It's clear as day: socio-cultural factors that enable the high-rate of consumption to stay high even when population transfers occur. For example, alcoholism among Punjabi expatriates now residing in Canada is a valid reality---a startling concern.

 

[ronki23]

Legalise and tax- that's the answer to everything nowadays. Although it'd be much easier to educate people about this- not sure what the system's like in Punjab.

Poeticus- you say the alcohol problem is a startling concern abroad in Punjabis. Is there a reason Sikh youths drink and smoke? Same goes for Muslim youths; but they don't eat pork or pray 5x a day lol. INSHALLAH BRUV

I've had the same issue with Indian students- from Delhi especially. Hardly want to do anything with the rest of the class except chase foreign skirt and/or go to nightclub every other night. The thing is even the quiet 'uncool' Indians join in. Keep letting people down e.g. don't want to go out to lunch/dinner with other ethnicities as it involves spending money socially but will blow money at nightclub

Poeticus and Aupmanyav - Did you read my previous posts r.e Khalistan economy and expats online? Would Pakistan actually trade with them as it would be anti Indian? Is there a reason these maps claim a huge chunk of India including Delhi? If Khalistan is considered terrorism what about Palestine?

 

[ronki23]

This was not approved on SikhNet and SikhSangat deleted it.

Firstly I do not wish to offend anyone so sorry if I do unknowingly do so.

I just wanted to know Sikh-Hindu relations as I am confused about it.

From the surface I can see that:

1. Both religions have a large population in the Punjab
2. Both religions celebrate Diwali
3. Both religions intermarry (I see the first born son of some Hindu
Punjabi families becomes Sikh)
4. Both religions believe in karma
5. Both religions believe in rebirth
6. Both religions have a high number of vegetarians (though i'd say a
minority in each)

I can also see that the Sikh Gurus have the names of Hindu deities:

Guru Ram Das- Rama
Guru Arjun Dev- Arjun
Guru Har Krishan- Hare Krishna


I see from the following quotes that Guru Nanak Ji and Guru Gobind Singh Ji
told followers that they are not Hindu

ਹਜ ਕਾਬੈ ਜਾਉ ਨ ਤੀਰਥ ਪੂਜਾ ॥ ਏਕੋ ਸੇਵ ਅਰੁ ਨ ਦੂਜਾ ॥ ੨ ॥

ਪੂਜਾ ਕਰਉ ਨ ਨਿਵਾਜ ਗੁਜਾਰਉ ॥ ਏਕ ਨਿਰੰਕਾਰ ਲੇ ਰਿਦੈ ਨਮਸਕਾਰਉ ॥ ੩ ॥

"I do not make pilgrimages to Mecca, nor do I worship at Hindu sacred
shrines. I serve the One Lord, and not any other. ||2|| I do not perform
Hindu worship services, nor do I offer the Muslim prayers. I have taken the
One Formless Lord into my heart; I humbly worship Him there. ||3||” (Ang
1136)

"I do not accept Ganesha as important. I do not meditate on Krishna,
neither on Vishnu. I do not hear them and do not recognize them. My love is
with the Lotus feet of God. He is my protector, the Supreme Lord. I am dust
of his Lotus feet." (Guru Gobind Singh, Krishna Avatar)

But I can see from these other quotes that there is reference to Hindu Gods

Brahma, Vishnu and Shiva stand at His Door; they serve the unseen, infinite
Lord (Guru Granth Sahib Ji, 1022).

By the order of God, Brahma obtained a body. By the order of God, Shiva was
born. By the order of God, Vishnu was born. Everything is created by God
(Benti Chaupai Sahib, Pauree 7).

ਦੁਹਸਾਸਨ ਕੀ ਸਭਾ ਦ੍ਰੋਪਤੀ ਅੰਬਰ ਲੇਤ ਉਬਾਰੀਅਲੇ ॥੧॥
In the court of Duhsaasan, You saved the honor of Dropati, when her clothes
were being removed.*

*I guess Sikhs could mean Waheguru did this but they then say

ਸਾਵਲ ਸੁੰਦਰ ਰੂਪ ਬਣਾਵਹਿ ਬੇਣੁ ਸੁਨਤ ਸਭ ਮੋਹੈਗਾ ॥੯॥

He assumed the beautiful form of the blue-skinned Krishna; hearing His
flute, all are fascinated and enticed.

Dasam Granth Sahib:

तै ही दुरगा साजि कै दैता दा नासु कराइआ ॥
O Lord! By creating Durga, Thou hast caused the destruction of demons.

तैथों ही बलु राम लै नाल बाणा दहसिरु घाइआ ॥
Rama received power from Thee and he killed Ravana with arrows.

तैथों ही बलु क्रिसन लै कंसु केसी पकड़ि गिराइआ ॥
Krishna received power from Thee and he threw down Kansa by catching his
hair.

While one could argue that these are beneath Waheguru, could these deities
not have a PURPOSE? In modern Hinduism there are Hindus who believe that
Brahma, Vishnu and Shiva are still beneath another God with no tangible
form.


Also, why did Baba Sri Chand Ji (son of Guru Nanak Ji), Baba Mohan Ji (son
of Guru Amar Das Ji) and Baba Gurditta (son of Guru Hargobind Ji) choose
Hinduism as Udasis believe in Vishnu, Shiva, Ganesha,Durga and Surya?

Wasn't Banda Singh Bahadur a Hindu beforehand? I see there was a rift
between today's Sikhs and followers of Banda Singh Bahadur (although he is
still mentioned in Sri Guru Granth Sahib isn't he?)

 

[Poeticus]

Legalise and tax- that's the answer to everything nowadays. Although it'd be much easier to educate people about this- not sure what the system's like in Punjab.

Poeticus- you say the alcohol problem is a startling concern abroad in Punjabis. Is there a reason Sikh youths drink and smoke? Same goes for Muslim youths; but they don't eat pork or pray 5x a day lol. INSHALLAH BRUV

Did you read my previous posts r.e Khalistan and expats?

It's a [socio-cultural] concern among Jatt Punjabis, that of alcoholism. Alcoholism doesn't discriminate, it affects all. But among South Asians, it seems to have a very gripping effect over Jatts. So much so, that it is a tangible reality even among Jatt Sikh populations now located in Canada and the UK. I rarely hear stories about Bengalis suffering from alcoholism, or Gujaratis, or Tamils, or Marathis, or any other Indic population for that matter. But Jatt Punjabis take the cake. It's a very discouraging reality, which suffers more under the crushing heel of parental figures that often encourage it. When one mixes alpha-male mentality with drug abuse, all hell breaks loose.

 

[ronki23]

It's a [socio-cultural] concern among Jatt Punjabis, that of alcoholism. Alcoholism doesn't discriminate, it affects all. But among South Asians, it seems to have a very gripping effect over Jatts. So much so, that it is a tangible reality even among Jatt Sikh populations now located in Canada and the UK. I rarely hear stories about Bengalis suffering from alcoholism, or Gujaratis, or Tamils, or Marathis, or any other Indic population for that matter. But Jatt Punjabis take the cake. It's a very discouraging reality, which suffers more under the crushing heel of parental figures that often encourage it. When one mixes alpha-male mentality with drug abuse, all hell breaks loose.

Expat Bangladeshi and Pakistani youths are also alcoholic and smoke

 

[Poeticus]

Expat Bangladeshi and Pakistani youths are also alcoholic and smoke

Maybe, maybe not. The concern should be to address socio-cultural realities that enable an increase in such consumption. In other words, the ego must take a beating. The alpha-male mentality must succumb to the reality that is: "no, you are not holier than thou". And drug education remedied with the concoction of progressive unity for family and society should be taken into consideration. I'm tired of Indian communities in the West, particularly those in Canada, being described as alcoholic and crime-ridden with gang-related activities when it's only a certain sub-ethnicity partaking in such en masse.

 

[Aupmanyav]

Would Pakistan actually trade with them as it would be anti Indian?

Certainly, if it becomes a reality all nations will be delighted. Pakistan, China, USA, UK, etc. Who does not enjoy the discomfiture of others? China would start a direct flight from Beijing to Ludhiana, road access from Tibet to Amritsar, and Pakistan would allow rail access to Karachi and Gwadar.

 

[Poeticus]

Certainly, if it becomes a reality all nations will be delighted. Pakistan, China, USA, UK, etc. Who does not enjoy the discomfiture of others?

Haha. Like alcoholism, business also doesn't discriminate. Profitability does not see borders, religions, nor race/ethnicity. It only sees $$$.

 

[ronki23]

Maybe, maybe not. The concern should be to address socio-cultural realities that enable an increase in such consumption. In other words, the ego must take a beating. The alpha-male mentality must succumb to the reality that is: "no, you are not holier than thou". And drug education remedied with the concoction of progressive unity for family and society should be taken into consideration. I'm tired of Indian communities in the West, particularly those in Canada, being described as alcoholic and crime-ridden with gang-related activities when it's only a certain sub-ethnicity partaking in such en masse.

With regards to the mentality of South Asian youths, I did this to rile the Asians on my facebook- the 'freshies' and the 'coconuts' for the first 2 and 'freshies' for the second 2 ; if they don't consider me Indian then why should I not post it? Since being messed about by them last year and constantly disappointed I had no hesitation in posting these

[youtube]dCk6fSQ21rY[/youtube]

[youtube]DTTBPELubFI[/youtube]

 

[Poeticus]

With regards to the mentality of South Asian youths, I did this to rile the Asians on my facebook- the 'freshies' and the 'coconuts' for the first 2 and 'freshies' for the second 2 ; if they don't consider me Indian then why should I not post it? Since being messed about by them last year and constantly disappointed I had no hesitation in posting these

In regards to South Asian youths, particularly Gujarati Americans:

Dear Gujarati Americans, please learn to converse in Gujarati with other Gujarati youths. Stop being such a disgrace to the land of our forefathers and foremothers by not having the courage to converse in Gujarati. Otherwise, the reality that ya'll even exist downplays the essence of the Maha-Gujarat Movement---making it unnecessary by default. Also, learn the script and be able to read and write in it. It really isn't that hard. Nor is this such a big ask.​

Winston wasn't a nice person, nor are the cigarettes similarly named. But he's probably right, with the way things are going.

 

[ronki23]

In regards to South Asian youths, particularly Gujarati Americans:

Dear Gujarati Americans, please learn to converse in Gujarati with other Gujarati youths. Stop being such a disgrace to the land of our forefathers and foremothers by not having the courage to converse in Gujarati. Otherwise, the reality that ya'll even exist downplays the essence of the Maha-Gujarat Movement---making it unnecessary by default. Also, learn the script and be able to read and write in it. It really isn't that hard. Nor is this such a big ask.​

Winston wasn't a nice person, nor are the cigarettes similarly named. But he's probably right, with the way things are going.

It's more the Bangladeshis,Pakistanis and Punjabi youths. Not saying the Gujaratis are saints.

Delhi expats really wind me up; as you stated they have a 'holier than thou' attitude and are only interested in foreign women and boozing

You know what they say, opposites attract and like-minds repel. You fight fire with fire

Churchill was the type of person required to kick Hitler's backside. Anyway, he praised Sikhs

 

[ronki23]

Certainly, if it becomes a reality all nations will be delighted. Pakistan, China, USA, UK, etc. Who does not enjoy the discomfiture of others? China would start a direct flight from Beijing to Ludhiana, road access from Tibet to Amritsar, and Pakistan would allow rail access to Karachi and Gwadar.

So Khalistan IS economically viable. Aupmanyav, did you see those quotes posted that say how Khalistan can work as Punjab proved 66%-85% of foodstuffs to India and how landlocked countries like Switzerland,Luxembourg, Afghanistan,Zambia and Zimbabwe function?

Some websites say Khalistan would trade with both sides. But as you say, Pakistan would trade but India wouldn't. But why do you say Pakistan can't be trusted? Is it because of what's going on with Kashmir,India,Afghanistan and Bangladesh? Remember there's another side to the story.

Poeticus, I showed some links that shows the 'ambition' of the Khalistan movement.

If Khalistan doesn't work because of its boundaries, the same could be said for Palestine. Israel works as it has trade with the West instead

 

[Poeticus]

You know what they say, opposites attract and like-minds repel. You fight fire with fire

Churchill was the type of person required to kick Hitler's backside. Anyway, he praised Sikhs

I prefer fighting fire with water---extinguish the bejesus out of it. And of course he's going to praise Sikhs. Many of them fought for him in WWII, while famine ravaged the Bengal.

 

[ronki23]

I prefer fighting fire with water---extinguish the bejesus out of it. And of course he's going to praise Sikhs. Many of them fought for him in WWII, while famine ravaged the Bengal.

I made an edit to my post r.e. Gujarati Americans and Delhi expats.

And i'd rather support Churchill than the Nazi Bose

 

[Poeticus]

It's more the Bangladeshis,Pakistanis and Punjabi youths. Not saying the Gujaratis are saints.

Delhi expats really wind me up; as you stated they have a 'holier than thou' attitude and are only interested in foreign women and boozing

You know what they say, opposites attract and like-minds repel. You fight fire with fire

Churchill was the type of person required to kick Hitler's backside. Anyway, he praised Sikhs

I made an edit to my post r.e. Gujarati Americans and Delhi expats.

And i'd rather support Churchill than the Nazi Bose

Desis in general are far from being saints, Ronki. I'm not singling anyone out. India is infested with backwardness. To acknowledge this is not selling out. There should be more toilets than there should be mosques and temples. Education in regards to gender equality should be a priority rather than Hajj subsidy or temple construction. Pro-communal stances should be discarded and a healthy form of progressiveness should be implemented. And I'm sure you'd support Churchill, noticing that you reside in the UK and would be influenced by academic realities. Nothing really wrong with that; just a reality to acknowledge, is all.

 

[ronki23]

Desis in general are far from being saints, Ronki. I'm not singling anyone out. India is infested with backwardness. To acknowledge this is not selling out. There should be more toilets than there should be mosques and temples. Education in regards to gender equality should be a priority rather than Hajj subsidy or temple construction. Pro-communal stances should be discarded and a healthy form of progressiveness should be implemented. And I'm sure you'd support Churchill, noticing that you reside in the UK and would be influenced by academic realities. Nothing really wrong with that; just a reality to acknowledge, is all.

Isn't everything supposed to be changing under the BJP? I thought that was the big deal with Modi

But India has been growing under Congress since 91

 

[Aupmanyav]

So Khalistan IS economically viable. Aupmanyav, did you see those quotes posted that say how Khalistan can work as Punjab proved 66%-85% of foodstuffs to India and how landlocked countries like Switzerland,Luxembourg, Afghanistan,Zambia and Zimbabwe function?

I never said Khalistan would not work, I said India would not allow it to happen whatever the cost be. If Monaco, Nauru, Tuvalu and San Marino can work, then any other country also can work. But, the your statistics are not correct. Punjab does not provide 66%-85% of food-stuffs in India. For the rest, Khalistanis and Pakistanis are free to dream about.

Isn't everything supposed to be changing under the BJP? I thought that was the big deal with Modi. But India has been growing under Congress since 91

Even earlier than that, India is growing since independence, in population as well as in economics. Modi has been in for just three months (not even 100 days); yes, we expect great things from Modi. Abhi to ibtida hai. Age age dekhiye hota hai kya!

 

[ronki23]

I never said Khalistan would not work, I said India would not allow it to happen whatever the cost be. If Monaco, Nauru, Tuvalu and San Marino can work, then any other country also can work. But, the your statistics are not correct. Punjab does not provide 66%-85% of food-stuffs in India. For the rest, Khalistanis and Pakistanis are free to dream about.Even earlier than that, India is growing since independence, in population as well as in economics. Modi has been in for just three months (not even 100 days); yes, we expect great things from Modi. Abhi to ibtida hai. Age age dekhiye hota hai kya!

So why do people complain about India's drug and alcohol problem/infrastructure problems if it's a developing country? It needs time

As for the Khalistan 'dream' what do you mean? If Pakistan sees them as an enemy wouldn't they trade with them? Or is it because of Pakistan's track record with Kashmir,Bangladesh,Afghanistan and India that we doubt they'd support Khalistan?

Also, couldn't you argue that the Khalistan dream is no worse than Tibet, East Turkestan, Georgia or PALESTINE?!