Confused about Sikhism/Hinduism differences

[ronki23]

Sorry I am confused, can u please elaborate what you mean by "CIVILISATION's remaining time/starts counting down when humans first appeared", what do you mean by appeared? For your info, we didn't appear out of thin air, we have evolved for millions of years before becoming what we call humans.

Sikhi doesn't believe in Yugas and stuff. Period. You are happy to think what ever u want, but its doesn't change what Sikhi teach us and u can read my post above if its still not clear.

Now, put urself in a Sikh position who saw his family put burnt alive, female members of his family raped, who lost everything during 1984 riots. What that Sikh would atleast expect is JUSTICE from government and its constitution. 30 years from then, still not even a single person was held accountable. I think every Sikh who has gone through this has every right to be angry, really angry. If they think they have been let down by their own people then in my opinion they are absolutely right.
Btw, my real hero is Bhagat singh, sukhdev , Rajguru, shaheed udham singh etc who cared for India..not people like Ghandi and Nehru who were core politicians..

There is no such thing as Sanathan Sikh, And Sikh gurus didn't stop islmaification. They taught us the right way to live a life and protect against injustice.

And I have no idea what you mean by "But why would others use SGGS in the Mandir/call it the 5th Vedas?"

Regarding Mahabharata, Sikhs don't have any particular stand as it not important for us. Sure you can take teaching from it ( Respect elders, stand against injustice etc") in the same way you can learn from good books written even in this era. From Spirituality point of view, only thing that matters to Sikh is SGGS, period.

I will make it more clear:


ਭੈਰਉ ਮਹਲਾ ੫ ॥
Bẖairo mėhlā 5.
Bhairao, Fifth Mehl:

ਵਰਤ ਨ ਰਹਉ ਨ ਮਹ ਰਮਦਾਨਾ ॥
varaṯ na raha▫o na mah ramḏānā.
I do not keep fasts, nor do I observe the month of Ramadaan.

ਤਿਸੁ ਸੇਵੀ ਜੋ ਰਖੈ ਨਿਦਾਨਾ ॥੧॥
Ŧis sevī jo rakẖai niḏānā. ||1||
I serve only the One, who will protect me in the end. ||1||

ਏਕੁ ਗੁਸਾਈ ਅਲਹੁ ਮੇਰਾ ॥
Ėk gusā▫ī alhu merā.
The One Lord, the Lord of the World, is my God Allah.

ਹਿੰਦੂ ਤੁਰਕ ਦੁਹਾਂ ਨੇਬੇਰਾ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥
Hinḏū ṯurak ḏuhāʼn neberā. ||1|| rahā▫o.
He administers justice to both Hindus and Muslims. ||1||Pause||

ਹਜ ਕਾਬੈ ਜਾਉ ਨ ਤੀਰਥ ਪੂਜਾ ॥
Haj kābai jā▫o na ṯirath pūjā.
I do not make pilgrimages to Mecca, nor do I worship at Hindu sacred shrines.

ਏਕੋ ਸੇਵੀ ਅਵਰੁ ਨ ਦੂਜਾ ॥੨॥
Ėko sevī avar na ḏūjā. ||2||
I serve the One Lord, and not any other. ||2||

ਪੂਜਾ ਕਰਉ ਨ ਨਿਵਾਜ ਗੁਜਾਰਉ ॥
Pūjā kara▫o na nivāj gujāra▫o.
I do not perform Hindu worship services, nor do I offer the Muslim prayers.

ਏਕ ਨਿਰੰਕਾਰ ਲੇ ਰਿਦੈ ਨਮਸਕਾਰਉ ॥੩॥
Ėk nirankār le riḏai namaskāra▫o. ||3||
I have taken the One Formless Lord into my heart; I humbly worship Him there. ||3||

ਨਾ ਹਮ ਹਿੰਦੂ ਨ ਮੁਸਲਮਾਨ ॥
Nā ham hinḏū na musalmān.
I am not a Hindu, nor am I a Muslim.

ਅਲਹ ਰਾਮ ਕੇ ਪਿੰਡੁ ਪਰਾਨ ॥੪॥
Alah rām ke pind parān. ||4||
My body and breath of life belong to Allah - to Raam - the God of both. ||4||

ਕਹੁ ਕਬੀਰ ਇਹੁ ਕੀਆ ਵਖਾਨਾ ॥
Kaho Kabīr ih kī▫ā vakẖānā.
Says Kabeer, this is what I say:

ਗੁਰ ਪੀਰ ਮਿਲਿ ਖੁਦਿ ਖਸਮੁ ਪਛਾਨਾ ॥੫॥੩॥
Gur pīr mil kẖuḏ kẖasam pacẖẖānā. ||5||3||
meeting with the Guru, my Spiritual Teacher, I realize God, my Lord and Master. ||5||3||



Some quotes to make clear what Raam states for in SGGS:

ਕਬੀਰ ਰਾਮ ਕਹਨ ਮਹਿ ਭੇਦੁ ਹੈ ਤਾ ਮਹਿ ਏਕੁ ਬਿਚਾਰੁ ॥
Kabīr rām kahan mėh bẖeḏ hai ṯā mėh ek bicẖār.
Kabeer, it does make a difference, how you chant the Lord's Name, 'Raam'. This is something to consider.

ਸੋਈ ਰਾਮੁ ਸਭੈ ਕਹਹਿ ਸੋਈ ਕਉਤਕਹਾਰ ॥੧੯੦॥
So▫ī rām sabẖai kahėh so▫ī ka▫uṯakhār. ||190||
Everyone uses the same word for the son of Dasrath and the Wondrous Lord. ||190||

ਕਬੀਰ ਰਾਮੈ ਰਾਮ ਕਹੁ ਕਹਿਬੇ ਮਾਹਿ ਬਿਬੇਕ ॥
Kabīr rāmai rām kaho kahibe māhi bibek.
Kabeer, use the word 'Raam', only to speak of the All-pervading Lord. You must make that distinction.

ਏਕੁ ਅਨੇਕਹਿ ਮਿਲਿ ਗਇਆ ਏਕ ਸਮਾਨਾ ਏਕ ॥੧੯੧॥
Ėk anekėh mil ga▫i▫ā ek samānā ek. ||191||
One 'Raam' is pervading everywhere, while the other is contained only in himself. ||191||

The same applies to Krishna or anyone else.

Below should make it very clear:

ਸ੝ਵੈਯਾ ॥
ਪਾਂਇ ਗਹੇ ਜਬ ਤੇ ਤ੝ਮਰੇ ਤਬ ਤੇ ਕੋਊ ਆਂਖ ਤਰੇ ਨਹੀ ਆਨਿਯੋ ॥
ਰਾਮ ਰਹੀਮ ਪ੝ਰਾਨ ਕ੝ਰਾਨ ਅਨੇਕ ਕਹੈਂ ਮਤਿ ਝਕ ਨ ਮਾਨਿਯੋ ॥
ਸਿੰਮ੝ਰਿਤਿ ਸਾਸਤ੝ਰ ਬੇਦ ਸਭੈ ਬਹ੝ ਭੇਦ ਕਹੈ ਹਮ ਝਕ ਨ ਜਾਨਿਯੋ ॥
ਸ੝ਰੀ ਅਸਿਪਾਨਿ ਕ੝ਰਿਪਾ ਤ੝ਮਰੀ ਕਰਿ ਮੈ ਨ ਕਹਿਯੋ ਸਭ ਤੋਹਿ ਬਖਾਨਿਯੋ ॥੮੬੩॥
SWAYYA
O God ! the day when I caught hold of your feet, I do not bring anyone else under my sight; none other is liked by me now.
The Puranas and the Quran try to know Thee by the names of Ram and Rahim and talk about you through several stories, but I do not accept any of their opinions;
The Simritis, Shastras and Vedas describe several mysteries of yours, but I do not agree with any of them. O sword-wielder God!
This all has been described by Thy Grace, what power can I have to write all this?. (863)

The Yuga theory could start from when modern humans have been around on Earth; not apes but the cavemen.

And India may not have been around without the likes of Mahatma Gandhi, Vallahbhai Patel and Nehru. India would most likely have been given independence much,much later and may have looked different.
And Manmohan Singh helped give India the economy it had today.

Or do you think they are all bad just because they're Congress?

Sanatan Sikh:

http://www.sarbloh.info/

 

[ronki23]

I need a bigger facepalm smiley.

Ronki, Sikhs don't pray to their Gurus. By all means go ahead but you'll get just as far by praying to your refrigerator.

Sikhi is a distinct and unique religion. Drawing make-believe pictures of make-believe Gurus with as many Hindu deities around them and Sanatan symbols like OM will not morph it into Sanatan Dharma. Pick ONE, don't try to turn Sikhi into something it isn't.

Having pictures of someone does not necessarily mean you pray to them. And here is my point, why do Sikhs find it a sin if Hindus do this?

Hindus pray to Shirdi Sai Baba and (not me personally) Satya Sai Baba. Heck, they pray to Gandhi. If the mesage they preached is good, and they are religious people, what's wrong in doing so?

BOTH Hindus and Chinese religions have claimed Buddha and pray to him; if that's 'ok' with the Buddhists, why do Sikhs find it offensive if Hindus pray to Gurus if they consider them people to live life by. I've given a link to Sanatan Sikhism

http://www.sarbloh.info/

Anyway, another user says Sikhs go to Hindu Mandir and go to astrologers. That is why I get confused/mixed signals- what's wrong if they do so? Does it make them any less a person?

 

[Poeticus]

And India may not have been around without the likes of Mahatma Gandhi, Vallahbhai Patel and Nehru.

Sardar Vallabhbhai, sure. He was wonderful.

I'm not too fond of the other two, though.

Nehru and Gandhi did nothing to stop the massacres of Sikhs and Hindus in North-West India (now known as Pakistan). In fact, they catered to fundamentalistic Muslim demands.

The person who got the best profit from all of that was Jinnah. Jinnah literally gave Gandhi and Nehru a run for their money. In simpler terms: Jinnah played them for fools.

More importantly, HOW IN THE FREAKIN' WORLD DOES ALL OF THIS RELATE WITH THE SIKH DIR?????

 

[Treks]

Having pictures of someone does not necessarily mean you pray to them. And here is my point, why do Sikhs find it a sin if Hindus do this?

Yeahbut you said this:

I would however, pray to the Gurus individually and (if I owned a Mandir), do this : *pictures of people meant to be Sikh Guru's surrounded by or surrounding Hindu images and symbols*

THAT'S what I'mma talkin' 'bout.

Hindus pray to Shirdi Sai Baba and (not me personally) Satya Sai Baba. Heck, they pray to Gandhi. If the mesage they preached is good, and they are religious people, what's wrong in doing so?

Hindus can pray to whomever they would like to pray to. That's fine. Conflating images of people who are meant to represent Sikh Gurus with images of Hindu deities and symbolism in an attempt to assimilate the one into the other is Very Uncool.

First of all it's just a pretty picture, then Sikhs start bowing to it (heck half of them bow to them anyway ), then somehow people start draping wreaths around them, and leaving flowers at their feet, then bringing a thaal with little candles and incense and waving it around in front, then all of a sudden whatever Guru is suddently an avatar of such and such God and there you have it, bye bye Sikhi, hellllooo Sanatan Dharma!

Computer says :no:

 

[Treks]

Anyway, another user says Sikhs go to Hindu Mandir and go to astrologers. That is why I get confused/mixed signals- what's wrong if they do so? Does it make them any less a person?

Doesn't make them any less of a person. But they're going against the Sikh Rehat Maryada:

Article XVI - Living in Consonance with Guru’s Tenets​

A Sikh’s living, earning livelihood, thinking and conduct should accord with the Guru’s tenets. The
Guru’s tenets are:​

a.​

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Worship should be rendered only to the One Timeless Being and to no god or goddess.​

b.​

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Regarding the ten Gurus, the Guru Granth and the ten Gurus word alone as saviors and holy
objects of veneration.​

c.​

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Regarding ten Gurus as the effulgence of one light and one single entity.​

d.​

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Not believing in cast or descent, untouchability, magic, spells, incantation, omens, auspicious
times, days and occasions, influence of start, horoscopic dispositions, shradh (ritual serving of
food to priests for the salvation of ancestors on appointed days as per the lunar calendar),
ancestor worship, khiah (ritual serving of food to priests - Brahmins - on the lunar anniversaries
of the death of an ancestor), pind (offering of funeral barley cakes to the deceased’s relatives),​

patal​

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(ritual donation of food in the belief that that would satisfy the hunger of the departed soul),​

diva​

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(the ceremony of keeping an oil lamp lit for 360 days after the death, in the belief that that
lights the path of the deceased), ritual funeral acts, hom (lighting of ritual fire and pouring
intermittently clarified butter, food grains etc. into it for propitiating gods for the fulfillment of a
purpose) jag (religious ceremony involving presentation of oblations), tarpan (libation), sikha-sut​

(keeping a tuft of hair on the head and wearing thread),​

​

​

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bhadan (shaving of head on the death of
a parent), fasting on new or full moon or other days, wearing of frontal marks on the forehead,
wearing thread, wearing of a necklace of the pieces of tulsi stalk [A plant with medicinal
properties], veneration of any graves, of monuments erected to honour the memory of a
deceased person or of cremation sites, idolatry and such like superstitious observances. [Most,
though not all rituals and ritual or religious observances listed in this clause are Hindu rituals and
observances. The reason is that the old rituals and practices, continued to be observed by large
numbers of Sikhs even after their conversion from their old to the new faith and a large bulk of the
Sikh novices were Hindu converts. Another reason for this phenomenon was the strangle-hold of
the Brahmin priest on Hindus secular and religious life which the Brahmin priest managed to
maintain even on those leaving the Hindu religious fold, by his astute mental dexterity and rare
capacity for compromise. That the Sikh novitiates include a sizable number of Muslims is shown
by inclusion in this clause of the taboos as to the sanctity of graves, shirni, etc.]
Not owning up or regarding as hallowed any place other than the Guru’s place - such, for
instance, as sacred spots or places of pilgrimage of other faiths.
Not believing in or according any authority to Muslim seers, Brahmins holiness, soothsayers,
clairvoyants, oracles, promise of an offering on the fulfillment of a wish, offering of sweet loaves
or rice pudding at graves on fulfillment of wishes, the Vedas, the Shastras, the Gayatri (Hindu
scriptural prayer unto the sun), the Gita, the Quran, the Bible, etc.. However, the study of the
books of other faiths for general self-education is admissible.​

e.​

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The Khalsa should maintain its distinctiveness among the professors of different religions of​

the world, but should not hurt the sentiment of any person professing another religion.
...

Doesn't make sense, does it? It's like a Christian going to, say, a Jewish Synagogue and doing whatever it is that Jewish people do, and then still calling himself a Christian. It's like, whaa?

 

[ronki23]

Yeahbut you said this:



THAT'S what I'mma talkin' 'bout.



Hindus can pray to whomever they would like to pray to. That's fine. Conflating images of people who are meant to represent Sikh Gurus with images of Hindu deities and symbolism in an attempt to assimilate the one into the other is Very Uncool.

First of all it's just a pretty picture, then Sikhs start bowing to it (heck half of them bow to them anyway ), then somehow people start draping wreaths around them, and leaving flowers at their feet, then bringing a thaal with little candles and incense and waving it around in front, then all of a sudden whatever Guru is suddently an avatar of such and such God and there you have it, bye bye Sikhi, hellllooo Sanatan Dharma!

Computer says :no:

This is already happening in India though- what is wrong in what Hindus are doing?

The only thing I find wrong in it is Hindus worshipping Sikhs Gurus WITHOUT knowing their message. Hence I wouldn't personally put the Guru Granth Sahib in a Mandir simply because it says that idolatry is useless. But as individuals the Sikh Gurus are to be admired and revered for how they helped Hindus and protected them.

Anyway, what is your opinion on Sikhs celebrating Rakhi and Holi, two HINDU festivals? Do Sikhs celebrate Hola Mohalla to give it their own 'spin' on the Hindu Holi?

What I find intriguing is how Sikhs and Hindus share festivals (albeit for different reasons) yet Sikhs and Muslims don't do things together even though their is Muslim influence in Sikhism. Guru Nanak even went to Makkah

 

[Poeticus]

First of all it's just a pretty picture, then Sikhs start bowing to it (heck half of them bow to them anyway ), then somehow people start draping wreaths around them, and leaving flowers at their feet, then bringing a thaal with little candles and incense and waving it around in front, then all of a sudden whatever Guru is suddently an avatar of such and such God and there you have it, bye bye Sikhi, hellllooo Sanatan Dharma!

I think you make a very important point. But, I think it's necessary to understand that the above example, IMHO, is culture vs. religion.

I have encountered many Sikhs who are scripturally abiding Sikhs and will never step foot in Hindu Mandirs and will abide by 5Ks vigorously. But, there also a few Sikhs that I have encountered who will be unable to separate the Indian cultural notion of "oneness" or "unity" from their religious identity and will go "SanAtana" on shizznit. Even I get baffled by their SanAtanic leanings. When I inquire, they usually say something that is cultural in leaning, e.g.: You are my bhai, stuff like that.

 

[Poeticus]

Anyway, what is your opinion on Sikhs celebrating Rakhi and Holi, two HINDU festivals? Do Sikhs celebrate Hola Mohalla to give it their own 'spin' on the Hindu Holi?

I have always seen that as cultural. Sometimes, culture penetrates a society further and deeper than religious identity does.

 

[Treks]

You really don't want to allow Sikhi to be it's own entity, do you Ronki ji?

There's nothing wrong with Hindu's doing whatever they want to do. The problem is when they (maybe by accident, I don't know) conflate Sikhi and Hinduism, meaning they try to make out that Sikhi is just another branch of the big Sanatan family tree. This can confuse young, or ignorant, or illiterate, or uncertain SIKHS because they don't know what is Sikhi and what is Hindu and before they know it they're Hindus praying to Sikh Gurus, not Sikhs anymore. I, and plenty of other Sikhs, do NOT want Sikhi to drown in this ocean.

I don't know much about Sikh holidays. I've noticed in general, new religions will piggy-back on the festivals which were already there. No one wants to be left out of the party, do they? Some festivals, like Vaisakhi, are cultural/argicultural.

You forgot to mention Diwali, when Sikhs will celebrate Bandi Chhor Divas instead.

Perhaps you don't see so many Islamic factors in Sikhi because Muslims aren't trying to absorb Sikhi into Islam. But more realistically I'm guessing it has to do with rebellian against the Turks.

 

[ronki23]

You really don't want to allow Sikhi to be it's own entity, do you Ronki ji?

There's nothing wrong with Hindu's doing whatever they want to do. The problem is when they (maybe by accident, I don't know) conflate Sikhi and Hinduism, meaning they try to make out that Sikhi is just another branch of the big Sanatan family tree. This can confuse young, or ignorant, or illiterate, or uncertain SIKHS because they don't know what is Sikhi and what is Hindu and before they know it they're Hindus praying to Sikh Gurus, not Sikhs anymore. I, and plenty of other Sikhs, do NOT want Sikhi to drown in this ocean.

I don't know much about Sikh holidays. I've noticed in general, new religions will piggy-back on the festivals which were already there. No one wants to be left out of the party, do they? Some festivals, like Vaisakhi, are cultural/argicultural.

You forgot to mention Diwali, when Sikhs will celebrate Bandi Chhor Divas instead.

Perhaps you don't see so many Islamic factors in Sikhi because Muslims aren't trying to absorb Sikhi into Islam. But more realistically I'm guessing it has to do with rebellian against the Turks.

I don't know why Sikhs call it Diwali if it's Bandi Chhor. Especially on greetings cards.
ALTHOUGH, I also don't understand why Sikhs have a problem with it being called Diwali as it technically is since Diwali means ''festival of candles'' and the Guru's path was illuminated by these candles and they do decorations/fireworks in Amritsar.

The Rehat Maryada link provided was interesting but i'm seeing from this that there aren't many "true" Sikhs considering it says they are not meant to pierce themselves, drink alcohol, do drugs, smoke or shave

and in Israel you get many Christians praying with Jews. The Orthodox Christians are very 'Jewish' in the way they pray- just looking at that analogy

 

[Treks]

Diwali and Bandi Chhor Divas are meant to celebrate different things, they just occur around the same time, and yeah, lots of Sikhs call the whole celebration Diwali. I dunno. I send Christmas cards at Christmas time LOL, but I give diwali a miss.

The Rehat Maryada link provided was interesting but i'm seeing from this that there aren't many "true" Sikhs considering it says they are not meant to pierce themselves, drink alcohol, do drugs, smoke or shave

That part of the maryada isn't about being a "true" Sikh - it's summarising what Sikhs should and shouldn't do. If someone pierces his nostril I'm not going to say he isn't a "true" Sikh. I'm going to say it's not a particularly "Sikh" thing to do. It's not for me to judge who is and isn't a "true" Sikh. But being a Sikh isn't a cake walk.

 

[ronki23]

Diwali and Bandi Chhor Divas are meant to celebrate different things, they just occur around the same time, and yeah, lots of Sikhs call the whole celebration Diwali. I dunno. I send Christmas cards at Christmas time LOL, but I give diwali a miss.




That part of the maryada isn't about being a "true" Sikh - it's summarising what Sikhs should and shouldn't do. If someone pierces his nostril I'm not going to say he isn't a "true" Sikh. I'm going to say it's not a particularly "Sikh" thing to do. It's not for me to judge who is and isn't a "true" Sikh. But being a Sikh isn't a cake walk.

Me too. Like the Gurus, I believe in the Abrahamic Prophets (not those of Islam simply as I don't know enough about it).
Though the way some Christians behave makes me think Jesus must be spinning in his grave

'I like your Christ but not your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.' (Gandhi)

Fanzelteim ("I like your Christ, not your Christians. Your...)

 

[Treks]

Like the Gurus, I believe in the Abrahamic Prophets (not those of Islam simply as I don't know enough about it).

Huh??? Please explain, cos I'm losing the will over here...

I celebrate Christmas insofar as it's a cultural holiday in the West. The cards I give have Santa and reindeers on them hehe. I think this would be the attitude of most Sikhs to Diwali, too.

 

[ronki23]

Huh??? Please explain, cos I'm losing the will over here...

I celebrate Christmas insofar as it's a cultural holiday in the West. The cards I give have Santa and reindeers on them hehe. I think this would be the attitude of most Sikhs to Diwali, too.

I worship Christ and revere the Gurus for the good things they did; I just don't follow the Bible or Guru Granth Sahib or even the Vedas (except the beef abstinence). I don't call myself a Christian or a Sikh simply because the former blacklists Pagans and idolatry and the latter (as you pointed out) are not Hindus. Not stopping me from believing in the figures in those religions

 

[Treks]

No my question was about you saying that the Gurus believed in Abrahamic prophets. Is that what you meant or..? And what do you mean by 'believing in'? Do you mean you look up to them as historical figures?

Thanks for saying a bit more about yourself, helps to keep things in perspective.

Why don't you eat beef?

 

[ronki23]

No my question was about you saying that the Gurus believed in Abrahamic prophets. Is that what you meant or..?

Thanks for saying a bit more about yourself, helps to keep things in perspective.

Why don't you eat beef?

I meant I believe in Abrahamic prophets and Gurus

No beef or snake as i'm Hindu. No alcohol or drugs as i'm Straight Edge

 

[Treks]

Oooohhh right! Thanks again for clearing that up.

 

[ronki23]

Himachal Pradesh, Kashmir, Uttar Pradesh, and Haryana are Hindu majorities [excluding Kashmir] and they are in North India. In fact, they are as "North India" as we can get.

The Indian state of Punjab pales in geographical comparison in terms of size. So, if Sikh Separatists want "all of North India", they will have to take over those four non-Sikh North Indian states.

Sikhs would end up fighting their own, especially if the Indian Army was involved. Why? Because, Sikh soldiers in the Indian Army also participated in 1984.

Furthermore, Sikh Separatism is not politically, economically, and socially sound. In fact, it's not practical at all. Yet, you still continue to worry about this problem. Why is that?

India has more important problems (no offense my Sikh brothers and sisters) to worry about, such as mass-poverty, gender inequality [Punjab has one of the highest infant mortality rates in India; google baby girl murders in Punjab], caste-discrimination [which is not restricted to Hindus*], political and economic corruption, rape-culture, etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc.

*"The Sachar Committee report of 2006 revealed that scheduled castes and tribes of India are not limited to the religion of Hinduism." -retrieved from: Sachar, Rajindar (2006). "Minority Report" (PDF). Government of India. Retrieved 2008-09-27.

Bump

I've found some right-wing Sikh websites, what's your take on them?

Khalistan » LET US BE REAL :

If Sikhs can feed whole of India ( Sikh farmers produce 74% of wheat reserve and 47% of rice reserves, in India ), you can imagine what they can do for themselves, when they have their own country.They will excel in any undertaking no matter what field of endeavor it might be. To work hard and to succeed, is in their blood. Pakistan and China would love them to be their neighbors. They understand the Psyche of Sikhs and will hopefully like to live in peace and harmony with us. You talk about Punjab, Khalistan being landlocked. So what !
Look at the example of Liechtenstein . It is landlocked with a population of 29,000 people and it is a successful country. Then there are other examples like Nepal, Bhutan etc. with much less resources than Punjab, Khalistan.
Yes, Sikhs used to hold high position in the Indian Army and Indian Government once upon a time and that is history now. They are less than 2% in the army now.

I also give you a link to Sikh Freedom; I find it a bit extreme with this quote:

Guru Ji considered the entire world as His own and by His grace the entire world shall become His. Neither India nor any other country in the world can do anything to stop this.

http://sikhfreedom.com/reliq.html

 

[ronki23]

"Is vakt vich punjabi'oN dA rAshtravAda vadauna lei koi zarurat nahi", meaning "there's no need to increase Punjabi nationalism at this time." I was just noticing that he seems to think the majority of Punjabis dislike India and/or seems to be afraid of Khalistanis, yet at the same time makes a statement regarding India needing Punjab and Punjab not needing India. This seems highly hypocritical coming from him, and if anything would drive Hindus and Sikhs further apart.

Bumping this but what do you think of these sites? I find them very 'extreme' and far right, no sources in their statistics (well, there are some)

Khalistan » Economic Viability

Sikh Freedom Home Page - Khalistan

 

[ronki23]

This is interesting. I'm assuming this guy will be slandered for his beliefs if this were to be posted on a website like Sikhnet or Sikh Sangat

[youtube]iCP93ePhVZ4[/youtube]
Nihang explains origin of 5Ks in Sikhism (from Hinduism) - YouTube

As i've stated many-a-times. I like most Sikhs, just not the hypocrites who shave,drink and smoke and then slander other religions. I also dislike SIkhs who hate Hindus.

As individuals, I like Abrahamic Prophets and Sikh Gurus

However, I also don't like Muslims who behave like 'Anglicised' Sikhs

I'm a British Asian Hindu and i'm getting stereotyped by British Asian "bruvs" and i'm constantly getting let down by Indian Hindus and Jains 'off the boat'. Perhaps it's because I don't speak Hindi. I've visited an ISKCON Temple with the other Indians from University (who distance themselves from me/stick to the 'authentic' Indians) but I had a better time at the Gurudwara.