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Confused about Sikhism/Hinduism differences
- Thread starter ronki23
- Start date
Jaskaran Singh
Divosūnupriyaḥ
Your quest is admirable and I wish you the best of luck because it's going to take a lot of luck.
The link for Sikh Philosophy Network, and Narayanjot's post in particular, explains in excrutiating detail what Guru Granth Sahib Ji teaches with regard to Kal Yug.
Wikipedia is not a very good source. That particular part of the article doesn't even have a reference! Some random person could have typed it in.
Ask you family to explain this tuk from a shabad on ang 96:
Ik gẖaṛī na milṯe ṯā kalijug hoṯā.
When I could not be with You for just one moment, the Dark Age of Kali Yuga dawned for me.
If people would just let go of complex mythologies and stories and focus on the now then the Gurbani might make more sense to them.
Alternatively they can provide some evidence of how they know any other type of "age" existed 4.something million years ago etcetcetc...
You forgot to mention that the rise of the Abrahamic religions is also considered a side-effect of the Kaliyuga:
ਕਲਿ ਪਰਵਾਣੁ ਕਤੇਬ ਕੁਰਾਣੁ ॥
Kal parvāṇ kaṯeb kurāṇ.
In Kali Yuga, the Koran and the Bible have become famous.
ਪੋਥੀ ਪੰਡਿਤ ਰਹੇ ਪੁਰਾਣ ॥
Pothī pandiṯ rahe purāṇ.
The Pandit's scriptures and the Puraanas are not respected.
Treks
Well-Known Member
That's an interesting couple of lines from Ang 903, thank you. I'm going to read up on this a bit more.
What difference does it make to you both, if Sikhi does "believe" in Yugs? I'm curious for your perspectives as I don't have much knoweldge about or experience with Sanatan Dharma, or with Sikhs who relate closely with Hindus.
Many thanks
What difference does it make to you both, if Sikhi does "believe" in Yugs? I'm curious for your perspectives as I don't have much knoweldge about or experience with Sanatan Dharma, or with Sikhs who relate closely with Hindus.
Many thanks
Treks
Well-Known Member
This source has a different number of years attributed to the ages: THIRTY-SIX YUGAS
Althought it's really neither here nor there I think.
ronki23
Well-Known Member
I'll get back to you BUT a Maha Yuga is shy of5 billion years; the Earth will only last between 4-5 billion years before the Sun destroys it (proven by science); a new star means a new Yuga?
I'm sure each planet has it's own Yuga
ronki23
Well-Known Member
I indeed believe in Yugas as Hindus do, but I bump this thread when I see similarities between Hinduism and Sikhism (which would be great if answered one by one):
1. Vishnu,Shiva and Rama in Guru Granth Sahib
2. Celebration of Diwali
3. Vishnu's Kalki Avatar being mentioned in Dasam Granth Sahib
4. Mataji being mentioned in Dasam Granth Sahib
5. The Kali Yuga being mentioned in Guru Granth Sahib (see Kali Yuga site's wikipedia quote)
6. Guru Nanak being born to a Hindu family
7. Guru Harikrishan sounding very similar to Hare Krishna
Where is the Islamic influence in Sikhism because my delusional family and friends refuse to see this. My family are Indians from East Africa and my family friend is a Hindu Punjabi but are complete contradictions; Islam is frowned upon and I guess Sikhs were great warriors so they're trying to take credit for Sikhism.
I do however, see that Sikhs do not like Congress' actions yet automatically assume Mahatma Gandhi, Vallahbhai Patel and Manmohan Singh are bad people for being part of Congress even though they helped boycott Britain and opened the economy to FDI thus GDP growth.
I also see that not many Sikhs are against Bhindranwale even though the youtube video showed he threatened 5000 Hindus.
If Sikhs do not like Congress and do not hate Bhindranwale then it seems they do not wish to remain Indian
As i've said many,many times. The only thing stopping me from becoming a Sikh is I am a non-practicing Hindu and I believe in the Hindu mythology to an extent (i'm more agnostic than theistic). I do not let religion control my life but I do the 'minimum' e.g. abstain from beef, touch the feet of elders and pray on holy days/stay away from meat those days.
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Treks
Well-Known Member
You may already know about this, but this thread was created today about Yugas and Jaskaran's snippet of Gurbani in particular.
Please help
Ronki, I don't have answers to all of your questions.
But Questions #6 is a bit odd. Should he have been born into a Sikh family?
Please help
Ronki, I don't have answers to all of your questions.
But Questions #6 is a bit odd. Should he have been born into a Sikh family?
I will first try to provide you some clarification regarding Kali Yuga and if Sikhs believe it in the sense Hindus do in reference to some quotes here.
Quote:
ਜੀਵਨ ਤਲਬ ਨਿਵਾਰਿ ॥
Shed thou thy desire to remain alive.
ਹੋਵੈ ਪਰਵਾਣਾ ਕਰਹਿ ਧਿਙਾਣਾ ਕਲਿ ਲਖਣ ਵੀਚਾਰਿ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥
He who plays the tyrant is approved. Deem this to be the surest sign of the Darkage. Pause.
This Shabad is addressed to the Brahmin (Pandit), the de-facto religious and social head of the then Indian society and the inconsiderate Emperors, telling him to refrain from selfish pursuits. When the only goal of the head of the society is to live a lavish and exorbitant life, it weakens the society and expose the meek and poor to the tyrants.
Quote:
ਜੇ ਕੋ ਸਤੁ ਕਰੇ ਸੋ ਛੀਜੈ ਤਪ ਘਰਿ ਤਪੁ ਨ ਹੋਈ ॥
If anyone practises truth, he is frustrated and prosperity visits not the home of a penitent.
ਜੇ ਕੋ ਨਾਉ ਲਏ ਬਦਨਾਵੀ ਕਲਿ ਕੇ ਲਖਣ ਏਈ ॥੩॥
If any one utters the Lord's Name, he is disreputed. These are the characteristics of the Darkage.
ਜਿਸੁ ਸਿਕਦਾਰੀ ਤਿਸਹਿ ਖੁਆਰੀ ਚਾਕਰ ਕੇਹੇ ਡਰਣਾ ॥ Whosoever possesses cheiftainship, he suffers humiliation. What has the servant to fear?
Guru Sahib also goes on to state that the Kali Yuga or any other Yuga for that matter do not exist on a specific place at a specific time, as is the belief of Sanatan Dharma, but it all depends on the the events that transpire at that particular point of time which liken it to the so-called Kali Yuga. When the deserving don't get the respect they deserve, when the food doesn't reach the belly of the hungry, and those who work day in and day out don't get a chance at prosperity (which their rulers enjoy even without working a dime), these are the characters of the Dark Age (which can take place at any place and at any time, the time-division of Yugas does not apply in this).
Quote:
ਜਿਸੁ ਸਿਕਦਾਰੀ ਤਿਸਹਿ ਖੁਆਰੀ ਚਾਕਰ ਕੇਹੇ ਡਰਣਾ ॥
Whosoever possesses cheiftainship, he suffers humiliation. What has the servant to fear?
ਜਾ ਸਿਕਦਾਰੈ ਪਵੈ ਜੰਜੀਰੀ ਤਾ ਚਾਕਰ ਹਥਹੁ ਮਰਣਾ ॥੪॥
When the chief is chained, then he dies at the hands of the servant.
When the tyrants strike, it is the emperors who suffers the most, the commoners remains as servile to the throne as always, whosoever the new ruler may be, their condition doesn't change. The same chieftains who served the Emperor, are directed by the invader to slay or imprison him. (And since O corrupt Emperor, you are to face such a humiliation at the hand of your own people, be fearful and discharge your duties as they are meant to be; shun selfish goals).
Quote:
ਆਖੁ ਗੁਣਾ ਕਲਿ ਆਈਐ ॥
Utter thou the Lord's praise. The Kaliage is come.
ਤਿਹੁ ਜੁਗ ਕੇਰਾ ਰਹਿਆ ਤਪਾਵਸੁ ਜੇ ਗੁਣ ਦੇਹਿ ਤ ਪਾਈਐ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥
The Justice of the three ages has, now, ceased to be administered. If the Lord blesses man with virtues, then alone, he obtains salvation. Pause.
So, utter your Lord's praise O Pandit! Beacuse according to your own Vedantic scriptures, Lord's praise alone is of virtue in the Kali Yuga. The web of miracles and rituals you had spun in the name of the previous three Yugas is now long gone, the only virtues are those which can be possessed in your characters and dealings, do not run away from them now.
Quote:
ਕਲਿ ਕਲਵਾਲੀ ਸਰਾ ਨਿਬੇੜੀ ਕਾਜੀ ਕ੍ਰਿਸਨਾ ਹੋਆ ॥
In the unpeaceful Kaliage Muslim Law decides the cases and the blue-robed Qazi, is the Judge.
ਬਾਣੀ ਬ੍ਰਹਮਾ ਬੇਦੁ ਅਥਰਬਣੁ ਕਰਣੀ ਕੀਰਤਿ ਲਹਿਆ ॥੫॥
It is through the Guru's hymns, in place of the Atharwan Veda of Brahma, and the good deeds, that glory is obtained in this age.
ਪਤਿ ਵਿਣੁ ਪੂਜਾ ਸਤ ਵਿਣੁ ਸੰਜਮੁ ਜਤ ਵਿਣੁ ਕਾਹੇ ਜਨੇਊ ॥
Worship without faith, discipline without truthfulness and sacred thread without chastity; of what avail are they?
ਨਾਵਹੁ ਧੋਵਹੁ ਤਿਲਕੁ ਚੜਾਵਹੁ ਸੁਚ ਵਿਣੁ ਸੋਚ ਨ ਹੋਈ ॥੬॥
One may bath, wash his body and apply sacrificial; mark to his forehead, but without the Lord's meditation, there can be no piety,
The Qazi, the Muslim lawmaker, (who is even more corrupt) has now now been made judge of the land, the battered people have turned to the easy-looking ways of black magic, chants and incantations of the Atharva Veda(Atharvaveda - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia), chaos has ensued; this is the Kali Yuga that the Brahmin talked about (and as the Brahmin did nothing to enlighten the society, crisis is staring India in its face.)
Remember, the ritual bathing and religious obligations (which have failed to be of any merit the society, which has been ravaged by the acts of tyrants) do not yield piety, it is only the Lord's name which can be of any value (and even this religious misunderstanding is the Kali Yuga)
Quote:
ਕਲਿ ਪਰਵਾਣੁ ਕਤੇਬ ਕੁਰਾਣੁ ॥
In the kalage, Quran has become the approved book.
ਪੋਥੀ ਪੰਡਿਤ ਰਹੇ ਪੁਰਾਣ ॥
The Brahmans, the Hindu religious books and Puranas are esteemed not.
ਨਾਨਕ ਨਾਉ ਭਇਆ ਰਹਮਾਣੁ ॥
The Merciful Khuda is now the Lord's Name, O Nanak.
ਕਰਿ ਕਰਤਾ ਤੂ ਏਕੋ ਜਾਣੁ ॥੭॥
Know thou that there is but One Creator of the creation.
The Dharmic names of God and Vedantic scriptures have now given way to the Abrahamic Books and the Islamic names of the Lord. (In reality, the forceful subjugation of other religions too, is akin to Kali Yuga, the Age of Darkness). Remember, it is the same Creator under whose command everything comes to pass.
Quote:
ਨਾਨਕ ਨਾਮੁ ਮਿਲੈ ਵਡਿਆਈ ਏਦੂ ਉਪਰਿ ਕਰਮੁ ਨਹੀ ॥
Nanak seeks the greatness of the Lord's Name. For no other religious deed is superior to it.
ਜੇ ਘਰਿ ਹੋਦੈ ਮੰਗਣਿ ਜਾਈਐ ਫਿਰਿ ਓਲਾਮਾ ਮਿਲੈ ਤਹੀ ॥੮॥੧॥
If man goes elsewhere to ask for what he has at his home, he meets with reproach then.
The Lord's name is great, and it resides in the hearts of the believer (the Brahmin used to misguide the common-folk in pursuit of pilgrimages and rituals), it is in your heart, the home of your consciousness that God is to be found (so do not fall into the trap of the priests and snake-oil salesmen now, lest they lead you to another travesty), there is no other virtue except righteous living.
Also by the way, age of earth is 4.7 billion years now 1 billion as posted by someone before. So all ur arguments fall apart anyway..
Now for your questions one by one:
1. Vishnu,Shiva and Rama in Guru Granth Sahib :
To explain the difference between two opinions, you need to know about both opinions before you make any decisions. This makes it easier to understand things and make judgements. Vishnu, Shiva and Rama have no significance in Sikhism. One simple example:
The Gurus rejected the Avtara theory of the incarnations of God. The Gurus not only exposed the mortality of these gods but used stories to illustrate moral values, such as 'pride leads to a fall' illustrated by the story of Harnakhash, untouchability becoming superior through devotion to God by Krishna stories and stories where Bhrahma, Vishnu and Shiva are shown to be ordinary mortals. The Gurus stressed that there is only one God and that these gods and goddeses were not true.
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]"In every age, the Lord creates the kings, who are sung of as His incarnations. Even they have not found His limits." (Guru Amar Das, Ashtpadis, pg. 423)[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]"Millions of incarnations of Vishnu and Shiv, with matted hair Desire Thee, O Kind Lord, with endless longing of their mind and body. Infinite and Inaccessible is Lord, the World Sustainer, and He is the Omnipresent wealthy Master. The gods, perfect persons, heavenly heralds and celestial singers contemplate on Thee. The greater gods and heavenly dancers utter Thine praises. Myrids of kings, gods and many super human beings remember the Lord and hail Him." (Guru Arjan Dev, Chhant, pg. 455)[/FONT]
2. Celebration of Diwali
Sikhs celebrate Diwali for completely different reasons. Just google the difference, even though personally I don't celebrate it too much ...
3. Vishnu's Kalki Avatar being mentioned in Dasam Granth Sahib
Again Dasam Granth Sahib is about understanding the concept instead of picking one or two words. If you want to discuss a verse , please quote and we will discuss this.
4. Mataji being mentioned in Dasam Granth Sahib
Who?
5. The Kali Yuga being mentioned in Guru Granth Sahib (see Kali Yuga site's wikipedia quote)
Please see above. Thanks
6. Guru Nanak being born to a Hindu family
So how does this makes a difference. Prophet of every religion ( apart from Hinduism) was born in different religion ..Jesus was not a Christian when he was born and neither Muhamad was a muslims when he was born ( By the way, Mohamad is also mentioned in SGGS)
7. Guru Harikrishan sounding very similar to Hare Krishna
Is this really a point?
Lets discuss more if you want..
Happy to help
ronki23
Well-Known Member
The Sun is 4.7 billion years old; Earth was not born at the same time as the Sun. Though you could argue that the Yugas could calculate CIVILISATION's time on Earth as opposed to the Earth itself; though civilisation has less than 2 billion years left as the Sun's temperature will increase BEFORE even going Red Giant so humans will either become underground dwellers due to the heat or have left the planet (if a nuclear war hasn't destroyed them).
I'm assuming that the quotes about Kali Yug referring to Qu'ran being the absolute authority and the Vedas not refer to a worst-case scenario of Mughals controlling Hindus
Sikhs have utilised Hindu Gods in their writings; metaphorically I assume? Dasam Granth Sahib:
तै ही दुरगा साजि कै दैता दा नासु कराइआ ॥
O Lord! By creating Durga, Thou hast caused the destruction of demons.
तैथों ही बलु राम लै नाल बाणा दहसिरु घाइआ ॥
Rama received power from Thee and he killed Ravana with arrows.
तैथों ही बलु क्रिसन लै कंसु केसी पकड़ि गिराइआ ॥
Krishna received power from Thee and he threw down Kansa by catching his hair.
बडे बडे मुनि देवते कई जुग तिनी तनु ताइआ ॥
The great sages and gods, even practising great austerities for several ages;
किनी तेरा अंतु न पाइआ ॥२॥
None could know Thy end.
http://www.sridasam.org/dasam?Action=Pag...
I also hear Durga is mentioned in DGS. Mohamed in GGS?
Treks
Well-Known Member
I don't understand the preoccupations with physical Yugas. Ranvirk gave quotes that make it clear what the context and meaning of the references to Yugas in Guru Granth Sahib are about. What do you think about his effort?
The argument that Dasam Granth supports Hindu deities is precisely why a lot of Sikhs wouldn't refer to any of it except for the bani attritbuted to Guru Gobind Singh Ji which is in it - Jaap Sahib, Tav Pradad Sawaiyya, Benti Chaupai.
At any rate, no matter how you cut it, Sikhi is about One Universal Creative Force, anything else is irrelevant. Why do people insisit on fretting about all this mythology instead of focusing on the real message of the Gurbani? I mean, people are entitled to do exactly what they want and believe what they want, but it shows a superficial understanding of Sikhism and Guru Granth Sahib Ji when they insist that it's not about what it's actually about.
Apparnetly Muhammad is mentioned in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji. I can't find the reference at the moment.
The word Allah is used too, but don't tell that to the Malaysians.
Disclaimer: Frustration above is regarding the efforts by some people to turn Sikhi into a branch of Sanatan Dharma. Please don't read it as an attack on Sanatan Dharma in general.
The argument that Dasam Granth supports Hindu deities is precisely why a lot of Sikhs wouldn't refer to any of it except for the bani attritbuted to Guru Gobind Singh Ji which is in it - Jaap Sahib, Tav Pradad Sawaiyya, Benti Chaupai.
At any rate, no matter how you cut it, Sikhi is about One Universal Creative Force, anything else is irrelevant. Why do people insisit on fretting about all this mythology instead of focusing on the real message of the Gurbani? I mean, people are entitled to do exactly what they want and believe what they want, but it shows a superficial understanding of Sikhism and Guru Granth Sahib Ji when they insist that it's not about what it's actually about.
Apparnetly Muhammad is mentioned in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji. I can't find the reference at the moment.
The word Allah is used too, but don't tell that to the Malaysians.
Disclaimer: Frustration above is regarding the efforts by some people to turn Sikhi into a branch of Sanatan Dharma. Please don't read it as an attack on Sanatan Dharma in general.
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GURSIKH
chardi kla
hi Ronki ji
above quote mean the Source of Power to Hindu Gods RAMA ,KRISHNA ,DURGA etc is ONE(Thee-in above quote ) ,Birthless ,Deathless ,Endless,Formless Akaal Purakh . Hindu Gods are respected , But only worth worship is all pervading IK ONKAAR .
below is quote from Same Dasam Granth
ਆਦਿ ਅਨਾਦਿ ਅਗਾਧਿ ਸਦਾ ਪ੍ਰਭ ਸਿੱਧ ਸ੍ਵਰੂਪ ਸਭੋ ਪਹਿਚਾਨਯੋ ॥ ਗੰਧ੍ਰਬ ਜੱਛ ਮਹੀਧਰ ਨਾਗਨ ਭੂੰਮ ਅਕਾਸ਼ ਚਹੂੰ ਚਕ ਜਾਨਯੋ ॥
आदि अनादि अगाधि सदा प्रभ सि्ध स्वरूप सभो पहिचानयो ॥ गंध्रब ज्छ महीधर नागन भूम अकाश चहूं चक जानयो ॥
All know that Lord as beginningless, unfathomable and adept-incarnate; the Gandharvas, Yakshas, men, Nagas consider him on the earth, sky and all the four directions;
ਕਹੂੰ ਲੈ ਠੋਕ ਬਧੇ ਉਰ ਠਾਕੁਰ ਕਾਹੂੰ ਮਹੇਸ਼ ਕੌ ਏਸ ਬਖਾਨਯੋ ॥ ਕਾਹੂੰ ਕਹਯੋ ਹਰਿ ਮੰਦਰ ਮੈ ਹਰਿ ਕਾਹੂੰ ਮਸੀਤ ਕੈ ਬੀਚ ਪ੍ਰਮਾਨਯੋ ॥
कहूं लै ठोक बधे उर ठाकुर काहूं महेश कौ एस बखानयो ॥ काहूं कहयो हरि मंदर मै हरि काहूं मसीत कै बीच प्रमानयो ॥
Someone has tied the stone-idol around his neck and someone has accepted Shiva as the Lord; someone considers the Lord within the temple or the mosque;
ਕਾਹੂੰ ਨੇ ਰਾਮ ਕਹਯੋ ਕ੍ਰਿਸ਼ਨਾ ਕਹੁ ਕਾਹੂੰ ਮਨੈ ਅਵਤਾਰਨ ਮਾਨਯੋ ॥ ਫੋਕਟ ਧਰਮ ਬਿਸਾਰ ਸਭੈ ਕਰਤਾਰ ਹੀ ਕਉ ਕਰਤਾ ਜੀਅ ਜਾਨਯੋ ॥੧੨॥
काहूं ने राम कहयो क्रिशना कहु काहूं मनै अवतारन मानयो ॥ फोकट धरम बिसार सभै करतार ही कउ करता जीअ जानयो ॥१२॥
Someone calls him Ram or Krishna and someone believes in His incarnations, but my mind has forsaken all useless actions and has accepted only the One Creator.12.
ਜੌ ਕਹੌ ਰਾਮ ਅਜੋਨਿ ਅਜੈ ਅਤਿ ਕਾਹੇ ਕੌ ਕੌਸ਼ਲ ਕੁੱਖ ਜਯੋ ਜੂ ॥ ਕਾਲ ਹੂੰ ਕਾਲ ਕਹੈ ਜਿਹਿ ਕੌ ਕਿਹਿ ਕਾਰਣ ਕਾਲ ਤੇ ਦੀਨ ਭਯੋ ਜੂ ॥
जौ कहौ राम अजोनि अजै अति काहे कौ कौशल कु्ख जयो जू ॥ काल हूं काल कहै जिहि कौ किहि कारण काल ते दीन भयो जू ॥
If we consider Ram, the Lord as Unborn, then how did he take brith from the womb of Kaushalya ? He, who is said to be the KAL (destroyer) of KAL (death), then why did none become subjugated himself before KAL?
ਕਯੋਂ ਕਹੁ ਕ੍ਰਿਸ਼ਨ ਕ੍ਰਿਪਾਨਿਧ ਹੈ ਕਿਹ ਕਾਜ ਤੇ ਬੱਧਕ ਬਾਣ ਲਗਾਯੋ ॥ ਅਉਰ ਕੁਲੀਨ ਉਧਾਰਤ ਜੋ ਕਿਹ ਤੇ ਅਪਨੋ ਕੁਲ ਨਾਸੁ ਕਰਾਯੋ ॥
कयों कहु क्रिशन क्रिपानिध है किह काज ते ब्धक बाण लगायो ॥ अउर कुलीन उधारत जो किह ते अपनो कुल नासु करायो ॥
Krishna himself is considered the treasure of Grace, then why did the hunter shot his arrow at him ? He has been described as redeeming the clans of others then he caused the destruction of his own clan;
ਆਦਿ ਅਜੋਨਿ ਕਹਾਇ ਕਹੋ ਕਿਮ ਦੇਵਕਿ ਕੇ ਜਠਰੰਤਰ ਆਯੋ ॥ ਤਾਤ ਨ ਮਾਤ ਕਹੈ ਜਿਹ ਕੋ ਤਿਹ ਕਯੋਂ ਬਸੁਦੇਵਹਿ ਬਾਪੁ ਕਹਾਯੋ ॥੧੪॥
आदि अजोनि कहाइ कहो किम देवकि के जठरंतर आयो ॥ तात न मात कहै जिह को तिह कयों बसुदेवहि बापु कहायो ॥१४॥
He is said to be unborn and beginningless, then how did he come into the womb of Devaki ? He , who is considered without any father or mother, then why did he cause Vasudev to be called his father?14.
ਕਾਹੇ ਕੋ ਏਸ਼ ਮਹੇਸ਼ਹਿ ਭਾਖਤ ਕਾਹਿ ਦਿਜੇਸ਼ ਕੋ ਏਸ ਬਖਾਨਯੋ ॥ ਹੈ ਨ ਰਘ੍ਵੇਸ਼ ਜਦ੍ਵੇਸ਼ ਰਮਾਪਤਿ ਤੈ ਜਿਨ ਕੌ ਬਿਸ੍ਵਨਾਥ ਪਛਾਨਯੋ ॥
काहे को एश महेशहि भाखत काहि दिजेश को एस बखानयो ॥ है न रघ्वेश जद्वेश रमापति तै जिन कौ बिस्वनाथ पछानयो ॥
Why do you consider Shiva or Brahma as the Lord ? There is none amongst Ram, Krishna and Vishnu, who may be considered as the Lord of the Universe by you;
ਏਕ ਕੋ ਛਾਡਿ ਅਨੇਕ ਭਜੈ ਸੁਕਦੇਵ ਪਰਾਸਰ ਬਯਾਸ ਝੁਠਾਨਯੋ ॥ ਫੋਕਟ ਧਰਮ ਸਜੇ ਸਭ ਹੀ ਹਮ ਏਕ ਹੀ ਕੌ ਬਿਧ ਨੈਕ ਪ੍ਰਮਾਨਯੋ ॥੧੫॥
एक को छाडि अनेक भजै सुकदेव परासर बयास झुठानयो ॥ फोकट धरम सजे सभ ही हम एक ही कौ बिध नैक प्रमानयो ॥१५॥
Relinquishing the One Lord, you remember many gods and goddesses; in this way you prove Shukdev, Prashar etc. as liars; all the so-called religions are hollow; I only accept the One Lord as the Providence.15.
ਕੋਊ ਦਿਜੇਸ਼ ਕੋ ਮਾਨਤ ਹੈ ਅਰੁ ਕੋਊ ਮਹੇਸ਼ ਕੋ ਏਸ਼ ਬਤੈ ਹੈ ॥ ਕੋਊ ਕਹੈ ਬਿਸ਼ਨੋ ਬਿਸ਼ਨਾਇਕ ਜਾਹਿ ਭਜੇ ਅਘ ਓਘ ਕਟੈ ਹੈ ॥
कोऊ दिजेश को मानत है अरु कोऊ महेश को एश बतै है ॥ कोऊ कहै बिशनो बिशनाइक जाहि भजे अघ ओघ कटै है ॥
Someone tells Brahma as the Lord-God and someone tells the same thing about Shiva; someone considers Vishnu as the hero of the universe and says that only on remembering him, all the sins will be destroyed;
ਬਾਰ ਹਜ਼ਾਰ ਬਿਚਾਰ ਅਰੇ ਜੜ ਅੰਤ ਸਮੈ ਸਭ ਹੀ ਤਜਿ ਜੈ ਹੈ ॥ ਤਾਹੀ ਕੋ ਧਯਾਨ ਪ੍ਰਮਾਨਿ ਹੀਏ ਜੋਊ ਥੇ ਅਬ ਹੈ ਅਰੁ ਆਗੈ ਊ ਹ੍ਵੈ ਹੈ ॥੧੬॥
बार हज़ार बिचार अरे जड़ अंत समै सभ ही तजि जै है ॥ ताही को धयान प्रमानि हीए जोऊ थे अब है अरु आगै ऊ ह्वै है ॥१६॥
O fool ! think about it a thousand times, all of them will leave you at the time of death, therefore, you should only meditate on Him, who was in past ,who is there in the present and who will also be there in future.16.[/COLOR]
hi Ronki ji
above quote mean the Source of Power to Hindu Gods RAMA ,KRISHNA ,DURGA etc is ONE(Thee-in above quote ) ,Birthless ,Deathless ,Endless,Formless Akaal Purakh . Hindu Gods are respected , But only worth worship is all pervading IK ONKAAR .
below is quote from Same Dasam Granth
ਆਦਿ ਅਨਾਦਿ ਅਗਾਧਿ ਸਦਾ ਪ੍ਰਭ ਸਿੱਧ ਸ੍ਵਰੂਪ ਸਭੋ ਪਹਿਚਾਨਯੋ ॥ ਗੰਧ੍ਰਬ ਜੱਛ ਮਹੀਧਰ ਨਾਗਨ ਭੂੰਮ ਅਕਾਸ਼ ਚਹੂੰ ਚਕ ਜਾਨਯੋ ॥
आदि अनादि अगाधि सदा प्रभ सि्ध स्वरूप सभो पहिचानयो ॥ गंध्रब ज्छ महीधर नागन भूम अकाश चहूं चक जानयो ॥
All know that Lord as beginningless, unfathomable and adept-incarnate; the Gandharvas, Yakshas, men, Nagas consider him on the earth, sky and all the four directions;
ਕਹੂੰ ਲੈ ਠੋਕ ਬਧੇ ਉਰ ਠਾਕੁਰ ਕਾਹੂੰ ਮਹੇਸ਼ ਕੌ ਏਸ ਬਖਾਨਯੋ ॥ ਕਾਹੂੰ ਕਹਯੋ ਹਰਿ ਮੰਦਰ ਮੈ ਹਰਿ ਕਾਹੂੰ ਮਸੀਤ ਕੈ ਬੀਚ ਪ੍ਰਮਾਨਯੋ ॥
कहूं लै ठोक बधे उर ठाकुर काहूं महेश कौ एस बखानयो ॥ काहूं कहयो हरि मंदर मै हरि काहूं मसीत कै बीच प्रमानयो ॥
Someone has tied the stone-idol around his neck and someone has accepted Shiva as the Lord; someone considers the Lord within the temple or the mosque;
ਕਾਹੂੰ ਨੇ ਰਾਮ ਕਹਯੋ ਕ੍ਰਿਸ਼ਨਾ ਕਹੁ ਕਾਹੂੰ ਮਨੈ ਅਵਤਾਰਨ ਮਾਨਯੋ ॥ ਫੋਕਟ ਧਰਮ ਬਿਸਾਰ ਸਭੈ ਕਰਤਾਰ ਹੀ ਕਉ ਕਰਤਾ ਜੀਅ ਜਾਨਯੋ ॥੧੨॥
काहूं ने राम कहयो क्रिशना कहु काहूं मनै अवतारन मानयो ॥ फोकट धरम बिसार सभै करतार ही कउ करता जीअ जानयो ॥१२॥
Someone calls him Ram or Krishna and someone believes in His incarnations, but my mind has forsaken all useless actions and has accepted only the One Creator.12.
ਜੌ ਕਹੌ ਰਾਮ ਅਜੋਨਿ ਅਜੈ ਅਤਿ ਕਾਹੇ ਕੌ ਕੌਸ਼ਲ ਕੁੱਖ ਜਯੋ ਜੂ ॥ ਕਾਲ ਹੂੰ ਕਾਲ ਕਹੈ ਜਿਹਿ ਕੌ ਕਿਹਿ ਕਾਰਣ ਕਾਲ ਤੇ ਦੀਨ ਭਯੋ ਜੂ ॥
जौ कहौ राम अजोनि अजै अति काहे कौ कौशल कु्ख जयो जू ॥ काल हूं काल कहै जिहि कौ किहि कारण काल ते दीन भयो जू ॥
If we consider Ram, the Lord as Unborn, then how did he take brith from the womb of Kaushalya ? He, who is said to be the KAL (destroyer) of KAL (death), then why did none become subjugated himself before KAL?
ਕਯੋਂ ਕਹੁ ਕ੍ਰਿਸ਼ਨ ਕ੍ਰਿਪਾਨਿਧ ਹੈ ਕਿਹ ਕਾਜ ਤੇ ਬੱਧਕ ਬਾਣ ਲਗਾਯੋ ॥ ਅਉਰ ਕੁਲੀਨ ਉਧਾਰਤ ਜੋ ਕਿਹ ਤੇ ਅਪਨੋ ਕੁਲ ਨਾਸੁ ਕਰਾਯੋ ॥
कयों कहु क्रिशन क्रिपानिध है किह काज ते ब्धक बाण लगायो ॥ अउर कुलीन उधारत जो किह ते अपनो कुल नासु करायो ॥
Krishna himself is considered the treasure of Grace, then why did the hunter shot his arrow at him ? He has been described as redeeming the clans of others then he caused the destruction of his own clan;
ਆਦਿ ਅਜੋਨਿ ਕਹਾਇ ਕਹੋ ਕਿਮ ਦੇਵਕਿ ਕੇ ਜਠਰੰਤਰ ਆਯੋ ॥ ਤਾਤ ਨ ਮਾਤ ਕਹੈ ਜਿਹ ਕੋ ਤਿਹ ਕਯੋਂ ਬਸੁਦੇਵਹਿ ਬਾਪੁ ਕਹਾਯੋ ॥੧੪॥
आदि अजोनि कहाइ कहो किम देवकि के जठरंतर आयो ॥ तात न मात कहै जिह को तिह कयों बसुदेवहि बापु कहायो ॥१४॥
He is said to be unborn and beginningless, then how did he come into the womb of Devaki ? He , who is considered without any father or mother, then why did he cause Vasudev to be called his father?14.
ਕਾਹੇ ਕੋ ਏਸ਼ ਮਹੇਸ਼ਹਿ ਭਾਖਤ ਕਾਹਿ ਦਿਜੇਸ਼ ਕੋ ਏਸ ਬਖਾਨਯੋ ॥ ਹੈ ਨ ਰਘ੍ਵੇਸ਼ ਜਦ੍ਵੇਸ਼ ਰਮਾਪਤਿ ਤੈ ਜਿਨ ਕੌ ਬਿਸ੍ਵਨਾਥ ਪਛਾਨਯੋ ॥
काहे को एश महेशहि भाखत काहि दिजेश को एस बखानयो ॥ है न रघ्वेश जद्वेश रमापति तै जिन कौ बिस्वनाथ पछानयो ॥
Why do you consider Shiva or Brahma as the Lord ? There is none amongst Ram, Krishna and Vishnu, who may be considered as the Lord of the Universe by you;
ਏਕ ਕੋ ਛਾਡਿ ਅਨੇਕ ਭਜੈ ਸੁਕਦੇਵ ਪਰਾਸਰ ਬਯਾਸ ਝੁਠਾਨਯੋ ॥ ਫੋਕਟ ਧਰਮ ਸਜੇ ਸਭ ਹੀ ਹਮ ਏਕ ਹੀ ਕੌ ਬਿਧ ਨੈਕ ਪ੍ਰਮਾਨਯੋ ॥੧੫॥
एक को छाडि अनेक भजै सुकदेव परासर बयास झुठानयो ॥ फोकट धरम सजे सभ ही हम एक ही कौ बिध नैक प्रमानयो ॥१५॥
Relinquishing the One Lord, you remember many gods and goddesses; in this way you prove Shukdev, Prashar etc. as liars; all the so-called religions are hollow; I only accept the One Lord as the Providence.15.
ਕੋਊ ਦਿਜੇਸ਼ ਕੋ ਮਾਨਤ ਹੈ ਅਰੁ ਕੋਊ ਮਹੇਸ਼ ਕੋ ਏਸ਼ ਬਤੈ ਹੈ ॥ ਕੋਊ ਕਹੈ ਬਿਸ਼ਨੋ ਬਿਸ਼ਨਾਇਕ ਜਾਹਿ ਭਜੇ ਅਘ ਓਘ ਕਟੈ ਹੈ ॥
कोऊ दिजेश को मानत है अरु कोऊ महेश को एश बतै है ॥ कोऊ कहै बिशनो बिशनाइक जाहि भजे अघ ओघ कटै है ॥
Someone tells Brahma as the Lord-God and someone tells the same thing about Shiva; someone considers Vishnu as the hero of the universe and says that only on remembering him, all the sins will be destroyed;
ਬਾਰ ਹਜ਼ਾਰ ਬਿਚਾਰ ਅਰੇ ਜੜ ਅੰਤ ਸਮੈ ਸਭ ਹੀ ਤਜਿ ਜੈ ਹੈ ॥ ਤਾਹੀ ਕੋ ਧਯਾਨ ਪ੍ਰਮਾਨਿ ਹੀਏ ਜੋਊ ਥੇ ਅਬ ਹੈ ਅਰੁ ਆਗੈ ਊ ਹ੍ਵੈ ਹੈ ॥੧੬॥
बार हज़ार बिचार अरे जड़ अंत समै सभ ही तजि जै है ॥ ताही को धयान प्रमानि हीए जोऊ थे अब है अरु आगै ऊ ह्वै है ॥१६॥
O fool ! think about it a thousand times, all of them will leave you at the time of death, therefore, you should only meditate on Him, who was in past ,who is there in the present and who will also be there in future.16.[/color]
Perfect Gursikh g, I was about to explain exactly the same thing. People who need to understand Guru Granth Sahib in detail and why devis and demons are mentioned in there, need to also read Dasam granth as this was a sole reason it was written.
I would also like to correct one thing the poster is arguing about. AGE OF EARTH AND SUN. Age of earth is NOT 1 BILLION FOR GOD SAKE
. Its 4.5 billion and age of SUN is 4.7 billion.I will make it simple, here is link from NASA.
Solar System Exploration: Planets: Earth's Moon: Read More
Now to understand how can both be created with only short interval of time (few million years is nothing compare to age of universe which is around 14 billion years old), please read primary class science book and it will help.
If still you don't agree, good luck to you. I was just trying to enlighten you :yes:
Namaste
As a Hindu, I have great respect for Sikhs, and I learned to have this respect for them from very close Panjabi Hindu friends.
They taught me to think of Sikhs as great warriors and great people of faith in what is of value and which brings together a brotherhood.
Sure, everyone fights with each other, brother and sister, man and wife, but I tell you Sikhs are like brothers to me. I go to visit the Sikh temple and enjoy it a lot.
Om Namah Sivaya
As a Hindu, I have great respect for Sikhs, and I learned to have this respect for them from very close Panjabi Hindu friends.
They taught me to think of Sikhs as great warriors and great people of faith in what is of value and which brings together a brotherhood.
Sure, everyone fights with each other, brother and sister, man and wife, but I tell you Sikhs are like brothers to me. I go to visit the Sikh temple and enjoy it a lot.
Om Namah Sivaya
I am sure ,
Sikhs respect Hindus and vice versa and good to hear from u. But when it come to believing and defining god , sikhs beliefs are way differen to Hindus.
And I am sure if you read this discussion, it will be clear. Sat Sri Akal😊
Namaste Brother
Yes, I read the slokas. You may be surprised to know, as far as visiting with my friends at ਗੁਰਦੁਆਰਾ I have never taken offense and enjoy the very warm adherents there.
Yes, there are differences, but not enough to say we cannot be brothers. Think of Hindus who are Advaitas of the Brahman. While I am not that, such Hindus may not have much to differ with some of these slokas.
One thing for sure both Sikh and Hindu share! And that is delicious food!
Om Namah Sivaya
Yes, I read the slokas. You may be surprised to know, as far as visiting with my friends at ਗੁਰਦੁਆਰਾ I have never taken offense and enjoy the very warm adherents there.
Yes, there are differences, but not enough to say we cannot be brothers. Think of Hindus who are Advaitas of the Brahman. While I am not that, such Hindus may not have much to differ with some of these slokas.
One thing for sure both Sikh and Hindu share! And that is delicious food!
Om Namah Sivaya
ronki23
Well-Known Member
Perfect Gursikh g, I was about to explain exactly the same thing. People who need to understand Guru Granth Sahib in detail and why devis and demons are mentioned in there, need to also read Dasam granth as this was a sole reason it was written.
I would also like to correct one thing the poster is arguing about. AGE OF EARTH AND SUN. Age of earth is NOT 1 BILLION FOR GOD SAKE
I will make it simple, here is link from NASA.
Solar System Exploration: Planets: Earth's Moon: Read More
Now to understand how can both be created with only short interval of time (few million years is nothing compare to age of universe which is around 14 billion years old), please read primary class science book and it will help.
If still you don't agree, good luck to you. I was just trying to enlighten you :yes:
I'm just saying you could argue each Yuga is CIVILISATION's remaining time/starts counting down when humans first appeared-so humans may still be in Kali Yug as they have less than 5 billion years before Earth is destroyed (2 billion if you consider the Solar temperature increase)
Still not convinced Sikhs like India though-they even find faults with Amitabh Bachachan as well as M.Gandhi and M.Singh-people who put India on the map. Some even support Pakistan even though they don't live there/were driven out and I have no answer for JSB '5000 Hindus' threat-a clear divide between the 2 religions that happened very,very recently
What would Sanathan Sikhs believe in? I believe Guru Nanak's son was one as he was a Sadhu? I could say I'm a Sanathan Sikh as I go to Gurudwara and admire the Gurus for defending Hindus from Islamification. But why would others use SGGS in the Mandir/call it the 5th Vedas?
What do other Sikhs think of books like Mahabharat from a metaphoric/agnostic view?
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Poeticus
| abhyAvartin |
Yes, it can be argued. No one is definitively saying that it cannot be argued.
The Sikhs in the Indian army disagree.