Confused about Sikhism/Hinduism differences

[Treks]

You have to live dharmically.

Become purveyors of the dharmatic arts. Aaahahaha...

/end bad pun

Additionally Ronki you can't turn Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji into a movie - it's not a story book.

And some Sikhs don't buy into the whole Dasam Granth - some feel, like myself, that works which are probably attributable to Dasam Pita Ji (Jaap Sahib Tav Prasad Savaiyya) got bound into a book with a lot of other stuff. Like erotica.

 

[Poeticus]

Become purveyors of the dharmatic arts. Aaahahaha...
/end bad pun

I utilized a poetic perspective. I hope it worked.

 

[GURSIKH]

I just recently "discovered" sikhism by reading about it. So far, I think that their belief makes the best sense in all other religions. I look at sikhs with different eyes now. I wish people would read about every religions before they make silly remarks based on what they see. There are so many misconceptions.

Welcome Cecele on RF :namaste:

thanks for lovely post .

 

[Breathe]

Additionally Ronki you can't turn Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji into a movie - it's not a story book.

I tried thinking of ways to make it into a movie.
I couldn't. My mind exploded.

 

[Satnaam]

Dasam Granth's authority is disputed within Sikh research circles. The Avatar compositions are in contradiction to Guru Granth Sahib.

 

[ronki23]

Namaste,



Can you please give me a link or a credible source that states that Lord Shri Kalki was inspired by Greek or Egyptian religions?



Are you sure about that?



No wonder. Listen, you can't just find dharma from watching movies based off of Hindu and Sikh scriptures. You have to live dharmically. Meaning, you have to read the Hindu scriptures if you would like to be a Hindu; same goes for reading the Sikh scriptures if you would like to be a Sikh. Then, you have to practice either one of the religions through utilizing what you may have learned from your intensive readings - assuming you read them intensely and studiously - with the help of qualified Gurus or learned Sadhus.

M.V.

Firstly I'm a bit busy so haven't the time to properly research BUT I find it hard to believe that avatar of the White horsemen at the end of time came straight from Hinduism and was copied in Christianity, I'm sure other religions between India and Palestine must have this from a geographical standpoint.

Also, Jesus is referred to as Ishu Bhagvan in Hinduism I believe. Even if many don't believe, I do.

As for Sikhism, the aspect I agree with are the common themes of Dharma,Karma and reincarnation and I hold the Gurus in high regards for what they did for Hinduism. If they didn't do what they did then maybe I wouldn't follow them as the Gurus were against idolatry and rituals-but as Sikhs accept Hindus, I choose to go to Gurudwara instead of ISKCON temple.

Speaking of which, why are times so inconsistent at Gurudwara? I once went 1230 and 12.45 and they hadn't started Langar yet but when I went after 1.30 they were finishing serving. On other days 2-2.30 was best time. At dinner I've been at 4.45,5,5.15,5.30 and 5.45 and they hadn't started but sometimes at 4-4.30 or 6 they've been doing it.
How can they do 1-1.30 some days, 2-2.30 other days and not even be open after 5 weekdays (yet some days they're open as early as 4.30)

They don't even bother getting the Guru Granth Sahib out anymore-either it's kept 'sleeping' or the Sardar does prayers in another room with weapons with a sign pointing as a diversion from the Guru Granth Sahib


P.S I have realised why I like Goku so much, as a child I was into Hanuman but due to secular culturevI forgot the details of the story. Maybe I subconsciously link Hanuman to my hero Goku (though Goku is annoying-I prefer Gotenks,Trunks,Teen Gohan SSJ2 and Goku only when he's SSJ3)

 

[Treks]

Haha the Gurdwara Sahib is running on Punjabi Standard Time! Its worldwide LOL. I say this with affection and not derision for my Punjabi bhais and bhenjis.

But on a serious note, its not unusual for schedules to be flexible in this community.

However it does sound like they aren't following proper protocol but leaving Guru Sahib sukhasan when the Gurdwara is open at reasonable hours. Sounds like a bad case of mismanagement. Is there anywhere else you can go?

 

[ronki23]

Haha the Gurdwara Sahib is running on Punjabi Standard Time! Its worldwide LOL. I say this with affection and not derision for my Punjabi bhais and bhenjis.

But on a serious note, its not unusual for schedules to be flexible in this community.

However it does sound like they aren't following proper protocol but leaving Guru Sahib sukhasan when the Gurdwara is open at reasonable hours. Sounds like a bad case of mismanagement. Is there anywhere else you can go?

Apart fromISKCON temples (which I don't go to) we have a Sai Baba (old Sai baba) Mandir open at stupid times: 7-9 AM and 7-9PM!!!

I have been going to Gurudwara for 4 months and these past 3 times it being shut for Langar made me give up-it takes me 30 min to get there and 30 min to get back and I don't eat meat those days-it's hard as I have to go to restaurant instead of Langar if it's closed which is annoying as I eat meat when I go to restaurant after Gurudwara

 

[ronki23]

I went today at 1.45-2 PM and struck lucky this time. Nice langar lunch.

It seemed there was something special as the Sardar was actually doing his sermon and (for the first time ever) there were two rows of old women reading their own version of the Guru Granth Sahib; there were flowers too. What could it be today (28/8/2013)

It was also Janmastami but I seriously doubt that was the reason.

By the way, what do Sikhs think of the Mahabharat and Ramayan? I believe those 2 particularly talk a lot about, a predicted science such as matter/antimatter, evolution, astronomy (more astrology) and even atheism. Unless i'm confusing this with the Vedas.

What do other faiths think of it? Even scientists and some atheists think Hindu texts are quite intelligent but it seems all of those youngsters from other religions and those in junior high/elementary think it's just 'crazy paganism'

 

[Poeticus]

Firstly I'm a bit busy so haven't the time to properly research BUT I find it hard to believe that avatar of the White horsemen at the end of time came straight from Hinduism and was copied in Christianity, I'm sure other religions between India and Palestine must have this from a geographical standpoint.

Also, Jesus is referred to as Ishu Bhagvan in Hinduism I believe. Even if many don't believe, I do.

Your opinions are duly noted. But, what you are purporting in the above has no scriptural basis nor foundation in any of the Hindu texts - pertaining to the term "Isha" (which you typed as Ish-u). That term does not relate to a devatā; it is just an honorific similar to Shrī. You still have yet to provide me with links backing up your claims, but unless they are, in fact, just opinions...it's all good.

Lastly, I don't know where you are getting the phrase "white horsemen" from. There is nothing in the Hindu scriptures about "white horsemen". Did you mean to say a "white horse"? Also, the aśva (the horse) plays a prominent role in Hinduism since time immemorial. And, the color white plays a symbolic (please click me to read more) role in Hinduism. Therefore, it makes sense that the last avatara of Lord Shri Vishnu would be riding a white horse in order to purify the Earth from evil (which are the characteristics of the color white according to Hinduism).

Speaking of which, why are times so inconsistent at Gurudwara? I once went 1230 and 12.45 and they hadn't started Langar yet but when I went after 1.30 they were finishing serving. On other days 2-2.30 was best time. At dinner I've been at 4.45,5,5.15,5.30 and 5.45 and they hadn't started but sometimes at 4-4.30 or 6 they've been doing it.
How can they do 1-1.30 some days, 2-2.30 other days and not even be open after 5 weekdays (yet some days they're open as early as 4.30)
They don't even bother getting the Guru Granth Sahib out anymore-either it's kept 'sleeping' or the Sardar does prayers in another room with weapons with a sign pointing as a diversion from the Guru Granth Sahib

You may have to find another Gurudwara. The one described doesn't seem like a proper one.

P.S I have realised why I like Goku so much, as a child I was into Hanuman but due to secular culturevI forgot the details of the story. Maybe I subconsciously link Hanuman to my hero Goku (though Goku is annoying-I prefer Gotenks,Trunks,Teen Gohan SSJ2 and Goku only when he's SSJ3)

Irrelevant. Please respect the SikhDIR and keep outside stuff out of it - especially when it isn't related to one of the Dharmic religions.

All the best to your journey in finding an accredited Gurudwara. They are definitely around. But, you will have to ask around as well as look online and find a good one that isn't running on it's own time and you will have to find one that is abiding by Gurbani and Sahib. Ask Treks, Chinu, GurSIKH for more info. They will be more than happy to help you out. Take care.

 

[ohhcuppycakee]

People online are more likely to be extremists, I think. There's a place for everyone on the internet. I've experienced some hate on Sikh sites for being Muslim, but I know in Sikhism you should not hate anyone.

 

[Satnaam]

We hate no one. We love all, but we are also taught to oppose opressive ideologies. Some people (including some Sikhs) do view Islam as a violent ideology and thus oppose it, but in no way should hatred for Muslims be allowed (while I'm open for criticising religions in a civic, respectful manner).

 

[Treks]

This is a pretty good example of what the Sikh attitude should be on a global scale, not just America.

[youtube]QZSLw6WZOJg[/youtube]
CrazyVid: Hero stands up against racism - YouTube

 

[ronki23]

Hi,

Here's what i've found and this is what makes me think Sikhs are not happy with being Indians:

Why Are So Many Moderate Sikhs Against Khalistan - WHAT'S HAPPENING? - The Voice of Sikhs

Bhindranwale - A Terrorist or a Freedom Fighter?

Sant Jarnail Singh Bhindranwale - SikhiWiki, free Sikh encyclopedia.

SikhLionz.com: Sant Jarnail Singh Bhindranwale

If I google 'Sikhs against Khalistan', there are very few results too.

My main question is why those that support Bhindranwale ignore how he said he will kill 5000 Hindus if his demands weren't met.

I do not know both sides of the story enough but Congress in India has overseen a lot of problems in the country (the rapes, Khalistan movement, TTLE attacks) and i'm sure a lot of it is their fault .


The reason I turned to religion during my time at University was I was lonely; I had friends but they didn't go out to parties/ travel near as much as I wanted. Actually, we never went to parties and other people did but I didn't because I had a 'paranoia' there'd be people I hated at the nightclub.
I couldn't do martial arts because people from University I didn't like may have come to my club; though they were training at their own club, if they were interested in other styles they would have come to my club. So I stopped going to the martial arts club I found after I left the University ones because I thought they'd be there.

I was 'happy' when I eventually found another martial arts club, I had good friends from University and I went to the Gurudwara for lunch and to be around people socially. Then suddenly my "friends" stop talking to me, one of them for no reason, another spent 100% of the time with his new girlfriend, a group of 4-5 went travelling without me and a group of 8 went to the theme park without me, 3 days after I suggested it.

What was the most frustrating is I found the Indians students quite selfish and inappropriate around women. More annoying is they let me down. Then there was a half Indian-half English Sikh girl who has strong social skills and is very popular, I asked her about Sikh and Hindu society but I found it frustrating as I was hinting to her that I was turning to religion for the social reason and I would have liked to have done things with her and her friends :/

My friends who let me down were Chinese,Taiwanese,Thai and Malaysian but i'm not happy this girl didn't take the hint. That and I used to really like African people but they too didn't include me (she was very good friends with them). So Oriental and African people,people of cultures I really admired, let me down.

 

[Treks]

I'm confused - what do anti-Bhindranwale / anti-Khalistan pages have to do with Indian Sikhs (there are also non-Indian Sikhs) not being happy being Indian?

Where did Bhindranwale say he'd kill 5000 Hindus?

Sorry to hear you've had difficulty with your social life. I haven't had much luck either. People are people, regardless of culture. You will find friendly people and no so friendly people from all backgrounds.

Joining a religion is about your relationship with the Creator more than it is about making friends with other humans.

 

[ronki23]

I'm confused - what do anti-Bhindranwale / anti-Khalistan pages have to do with Indian Sikhs (there are also non-Indian Sikhs) not being happy being Indian?

Where did Bhindranwale say he'd kill 5000 Hindus?

Sorry to hear you've had difficulty with your social life. I haven't had much luck either. People are people, regardless of culture. You will find friendly people and no so friendly people from all backgrounds.

Joining a religion is about your relationship with the Creator more than it is about making friends with other humans.

those are pro-Bhindranwale/ pro-Khalistan pages

I can not find many things against him as he seems to be held in high regard by Sikhs. I was told to never bring him up with ANY Sikh.

But from what I can see, from these websites (Sikh Wiki,Sikh Sangat and Sikh Network), a lot of Sikhs are pro-Khalistan and unhappy being Indian. I see very few Sikhs against him

I myself am an agnostic. I do believe in God but I don't take the stories literally.
That and so many religions are interlinked, there must have been an 'uber' religion.

Heracles=Hercules=Krishna=Jesus
Mahavir=Buddha
Hanuman=Sun Wukong=Goku ^^
Odin,Zeus,Brahma
Horus,Isis and Osiris
Allah=Shiva

I went to the Gurudwara as I couldn't stand the behaviour of the Hindu and Jain students (and residents) of the UK e.g. complaining, behaving inappropriately around women and simply being selfish. Most of the Hindu Temples were ISKCON (which I do not like) and Sai Baba Sr. Temple was open only 7-9 AM and 7-9PM

 

[Treks]

My apologies then, the title confused me - 'why are so many Sikhs against Khalistan'.

It's not that they don't like being Indian it's that they resent having Punjab sliced down the middle. It would be like someone coming along to where you live in the UK and saying "right, we've going to draw a line up the middle of your hometown now, Agnostics and atheists on one side and all other theists on the other". If you had grown up on one side (or lets say you had a library you loved for it's local historical importance which was now on the OTHER side of the line) you'd likely resent having to move to the other side because some other people who have nothing to do with your hometown told you to.

Same with Sikhs.

Bhindranwale is a sensitive topic because of how it ended for him, impacting so many innocent Sikhs in 1984.

You say: That are so many religions are interlinked, there must have been an 'uber' religion.

I'd love you to post that in the general discussion forum. Personally I don't think there was ever an 'uber' religion. Humans have a tendency to be spiritual (religious/superstitious, etc.) and we have shared cultures especially in that part of the world, the Middle East which is basically where all your examples are from. What about Northern European, Native American and Australian Aboriginal religions?

I think it's less about there being an 'uber religion' and more about a) human nature and common experience of the human condition, and b) contact between the cultures whose gods you mentioned.

Even if cultures didn't have contact (or it was really distant in the past) you could still find parallels between them because the religions are still man-made, and we're all humans.

Sorry you didn't have a very good experience at the Gurdwara Sahib. If your aim is to socialise and isn't the pursuit of religion and of God, why don't you try a Christian church or a Mosque?

 

[ronki23]

My apologies then, the title confused me - 'why are so many Sikhs against Khalistan'.

It's not that they don't like being Indian it's that they resent having Punjab sliced down the middle. It would be like someone coming along to where you live in the UK and saying "right, we've going to draw a line up the middle of your hometown now, Agnostics and atheists on one side and all other theists on the other". If you had grown up on one side (or lets say you had a library you loved for it's local historical importance which was now on the OTHER side of the line) you'd likely resent having to move to the other side because some other people who have nothing to do with your hometown told you to.

Same with Sikhs.

Bhindranwale is a sensitive topic because of how it ended for him, impacting so many innocent Sikhs in 1984.

You say: That are so many religions are interlinked, there must have been an 'uber' religion.

I'd love you to post that in the general discussion forum. Personally I don't think there was ever an 'uber' religion. Humans have a tendency to be spiritual (religious/superstitious, etc.) and we have shared cultures especially in that part of the world, the Middle East which is basically where all your examples are from. What about Northern European, Native American and Australian Aboriginal religions?

I think it's less about there being an 'uber religion' and more about a) human nature and common experience of the human condition, and b) contact between the cultures whose gods you mentioned.

Even if cultures didn't have contact (or it was really distant in the past) you could still find parallels between them because the religions are still man-made, and we're all humans.

Sorry you didn't have a very good experience at the Gurdwara Sahib. If your aim is to socialise and isn't the pursuit of religion and of God, why don't you try a Christian church or a Mosque?

But with the Khalistan/Bhindranwale topic, there are so many Sikhs against India online;even on the general websites. Even at Gurudwara, they thought I was Punjabi so only spoke in Punjabi-even written signs! They don't even meet in the middle by using Hindi

From your analogy one could say the same applies with Israel/Palestine but many Palestinians still say they are Muslim Israelis. That and you have criticism of Arafat and the PLO from other Muslims-even the Jordanians and Saudis aren't a fan of Arafat and today there's a rift between Hamas and Fatah
On the other side you get so many anti Zionist Israeli

Yet with Sikhs, I could easily say more than 3/4 believe Bhindranwale did nothing wrong and I could say more than half want out of India. It looks like an overlooked version of Palestine.

I'm unsure the Punjab demographics but with Israel I back a one-state solution as both claim Jerusalem. If the figures with proposed Khalistan show ~40% Hindu and Muslim then I would still say Punjab should remain Indian. Yet with Pakistan and Bangladesh and even Kashmir, I agree being a separate country is a better idea-maybe because the other religions except Islam are a minority and those areas had approx 2/3 Muslim

I'd say anyone wanting to have a separate country should need approx 2/3 majority based on a demographic

I went to Gurudwara as it was Dharmic and family/friends wrongly said Sikhs are Hindus. Though in Leicester and Southall and even Southampton Hindus and Sikhs pray together. Even at Gurudwara I found a few Hindus. Just frustrated the girl didn't take the hint that I was bored and lonely and the answer I expected from her was an invite out!

 

[Poeticus]

Hi,

Here's what i've found and this is what makes me think Sikhs are not happy with being Indians:

Why Are So Many Moderate Sikhs Against Khalistan - WHAT'S HAPPENING? - The Voice of Sikhs

Bhindranwale - A Terrorist or a Freedom Fighter?

Sant Jarnail Singh Bhindranwale - SikhiWiki, free Sikh encyclopedia.

SikhLionz.com: Sant Jarnail Singh Bhindranwale

If I google 'Sikhs against Khalistan', there are very few results too.

My main question is why those that support Bhindranwale ignore how he said he will kill 5000 Hindus if his demands weren't met.

I do not know both sides of the story enough but Congress in India has overseen a lot of problems in the country (the rapes, Khalistan movement, TTLE attacks) and i'm sure a lot of it is their fault .


The reason I turned to religion during my time at University was I was lonely; I had friends but they didn't go out to parties/ travel near as much as I wanted. Actually, we never went to parties and other people did but I didn't because I had a 'paranoia' there'd be people I hated at the nightclub.
I couldn't do martial arts because people from University I didn't like may have come to my club; though they were training at their own club, if they were interested in other styles they would have come to my club. So I stopped going to the martial arts club I found after I left the University ones because I thought they'd be there.

I was 'happy' when I eventually found another martial arts club, I had good friends from University and I went to the Gurudwara for lunch and to be around people socially. Then suddenly my "friends" stop talking to me, one of them for no reason, another spent 100% of the time with his new girlfriend, a group of 4-5 went travelling without me and a group of 8 went to the theme park without me, 3 days after I suggested it.

What was the most frustrating is I found the Indians students quite selfish and inappropriate around women. More annoying is they let me down. Then there was a half Indian-half English Sikh girl who has strong social skills and is very popular, I asked her about Sikh and Hindu society but I found it frustrating as I was hinting to her that I was turning to religion for the social reason and I would have liked to have done things with her and her friends :/

My friends who let me down were Chinese,Taiwanese,Thai and Malaysian but i'm not happy this girl didn't take the hint. That and I used to really like African people but they too didn't include me (she was very good friends with them). So Oriental and African people,people of cultures I really admired, let me down.

those are pro-Bhindranwale/ pro-Khalistan pages

I can not find many things against him as he seems to be held in high regard by Sikhs. I was told to never bring him up with ANY Sikh.

But from what I can see, from these websites (Sikh Wiki,Sikh Sangat and Sikh Network), a lot of Sikhs are pro-Khalistan and unhappy being Indian. I see very few Sikhs against him

I myself am an agnostic. I do believe in God but I don't take the stories literally.
That and so many religions are interlinked, there must have been an 'uber' religion.

Heracles=Hercules=Krishna=Jesus
Mahavir=Buddha
Hanuman=Sun Wukong=Goku ^^
Odin,Zeus,Brahma
Horus,Isis and Osiris
Allah=Shiva

I went to the Gurudwara as I couldn't stand the behaviour of the Hindu and Jain students (and residents) of the UK e.g. complaining, behaving inappropriately around women and simply being selfish. Most of the Hindu Temples were ISKCON (which I do not like) and Sai Baba Sr. Temple was open only 7-9 AM and 7-9PM

But with the Khalistan/Bhindranwale topic, there are so many Sikhs against India online;even on the general websites. Even at Gurudwara, they thought I was Punjabi so only spoke in Punjabi-even written signs! They don't even meet in the middle by using Hindi

From your analogy one could say the same applies with Israel/Palestine but many Palestinians still say they are Muslim Israelis. That and you have criticism of Arafat and the PLO from other Muslims-even the Jordanians and Saudis aren't a fan of Arafat and today there's a rift between Hamas and Fatah
On the other side you get so many anti Zionist Israeli

Yet with Sikhs, I could easily say more than 3/4 believe Bhindranwale did nothing wrong and I could say more than half want out of India. It looks like an overlooked version of Palestine.

I'm unsure the Punjab demographics but with Israel I back a one-state solution as both claim Jerusalem. If the figures with proposed Khalistan show ~40% Hindu and Muslim then I would still say Punjab should remain Indian. Yet with Pakistan and Bangladesh and even Kashmir, I agree being a separate country is a better idea-maybe because the other religions except Islam are a minority and those areas had approx 2/3 Muslim

I'd say anyone wanting to have a separate country should need approx 2/3 majority based on a demographic

I went to Gurudwara as it was Dharmic and family/friends wrongly said Sikhs are Hindus. Though in Leicester and Southall and even Southampton Hindus and Sikhs pray together. Even at Gurudwara I found a few Hindus. Just frustrated the girl didn't take the hint that I was bored and lonely and the answer I expected from her was an invite out!

I sympathize with the negative social encounters you have had, but how does any of the above relate to the Sikh DIR? This could have been posted in the General Discussion section and you could have invited Sikhs to give their input.

 

[ronki23]

I sympathize with the negative social encounters you have had, but how does any of the above relate to the Sikh DIR? This could have been posted in the General Discussion section and you could have invited Sikhs to give their input.

Sikh DIR- it involved Sikhs and I am looking why Hindus consider Sikhs as brothers and why Sikhs do not