Consciousness in Cavemen? A Debate.

[Alceste]

Your allowing the men here to have an adverse affect on you, your starting to treat people like they do, which is unbecomming of a Woman. Your a Lady, there exist a different standard for you. You need to set your own standard and talk to others with respect, I expect that from a Woman, but not from a Man.

Peace.

You've got it the wrong way around, sweet cheeks. It's me having an adverse affect on the men.

 

[Alceste]

I'm not sure I understood the original point of this thread and now I am definitely sure I do not understand its continued purpose? How is this thread helpful to anyone in any way?

Mickiel's decided since he can't defend his ridiculous theory he's going to put an uppity female in her place instead.

 

[mickiel]

You've got it the wrong way around, sweet cheeks. It's me having an adverse affect on the men.

Okay, I certainly understand that.:bow:

 

[mickiel]

Mickiel's decided since he can't defend his ridiculous theory he's going to put an uppity female in her place instead.

Well in my point of view, the debate is going well. I have to conceeded that I was wrong about " All Civilizations" which have language, have writen skills, to my utter surprise, there are a few who didnot have the two simultaneously, that has been proven to me to my satisfaction. I have " Learned " that Adam was created far longer than 3,000 years ago, so I must detract the statement I have made, " That I can learn nothing from Atheist", I was wrong about that, I see that I can. So this debate has been good for me, if nobodyelse, its been a humbling and enlightening experience, but an enjoyable one. I like to learn, and I am not so stubborn as to not admit this, I will never make the statement of not being able to learn from Atheist ever again.

And I thank each of you who contribited to this, I won't forget.

Peace.

 

[MountainHumanist]

Well in my point of view, the debate is going well. I have to conceeded that I was wrong about " All Civilizations" which have language, have writen skills, to my utter surprise, there are a few who didnot have the two simultaneously, that has been proven to me to my satisfaction. I have " Learned " that Adam was created far longer than 3,000 years ago, so I must detract the statement I have made, " That I can learn nothing from Atheist", I was wrong about that, I see that I can. So this debate has been good for me, if nobodyelse, its been a humbling and enlightening experience, but an enjoyable one. I like to learn, and I am not so stubborn as to not admit this, I will never make the statement of not being able to learn from Atheist ever again.

And I thank each of you who contribited to this, I won't forget.

Peace.

I commend you for your willingness to integrate new knowledge. My next hope is for you to let go of the notion that Adam was a historical figure (in light of the massive amount of research showing he was not). First steps....

 

[mickiel]

I commend you for your willingness to integrate new knowledge. My next hope is for you to let go of the notion that Adam was a historical figure (in light of the massive amount of research showing he was not). First steps....

Well I am yet convinced that I am not right, but if proven to myself, I have no problem changing my views. Its an ongoing thing, but I will find out, one way or the other.

For there to be organization of humans, ( civilization), there has to be a general organization of their minds. Their consciousness. Now I believe that for sure, and I just do not see this in Primordal humans. And I do not see the selective pressures in the theory of evolution bringing about so mighty a result as conscious intelligent human civilization. I also believe that this consciousness had to start somewhere, and Adam seems to be an excellent start of that.

Peace.

 

[Dirty Penguin]

Well in my point of view, the debate is going well. I have to conceeded that I was wrong about " All Civilizations" which have language, have writen skills, to my utter surprise, there are a few who didnot have the two simultaneously, that has been proven to me to my satisfaction. I have " Learned " that Adam was created far longer than 3,000 years ago, so I must detract the statement I have made, " That I can learn nothing from Atheist", I was wrong about that, I see that I can. So this debate has been good for me, if nobodyelse, its been a humbling and enlightening experience, but an enjoyable one. I like to learn, and I am not so stubborn as to not admit this, I will never make the statement of not being able to learn from Atheist ever again.

And I thank each of you who contribited to this, I won't forget.

Peace.

You are now starting to think outside the book...If only we can help you understand Adam and Eve were not real. Most people today profess Adam to be "allegory"....

That's a subject for a new thread...I guess....

We can go into that...Later...

I personally think atheist and theist can and do learn from each other.

 

[mickiel]

You are now thinking outside the book...

I personally think atheist and theist can and do learn from each other.

Well I see now that is true. I quess I had to experience it for myself.

Peace.

 

[mickiel]

Primordal man had no true trade market, there was no buying and selling, no supply and demand, no money. These things are signs of civilization. I still think Language and writing was the backround that created trade, and these three always bring about inter cultural change. When Civilizations perish, these three always have something to do with it. You can go in reverse and conversely state that if there are not these three, there hardly would be no civilization.

Trade between different peoples is simply the extension of such exchanging of goods to another kingdom. Texts from 2500 B.C. found in Sumer speak of such exchanging as far away as the " Indus Valley." And the recent discovery of a new city cite at " Tepe Yahya", halfway between Sumer and the Ingus Valley, at the mouth of the Persian Gulf, whose artifacts clearly indicate that it was the main source of " Steatite or Soapstone", used for utensils extensively in Mesopotamia, establish it as a center of exchange.

I am deeply disturbed at the curious fact that Archaeology has found evidence from literally every era of human existence, traced agiculture and trade, writing and docuements, artifacts and even bodys, but still no sign of civilization or any of these things in Primordal man. It adds up to me as no consciousness.

Peace.

 

[mickiel]

Being a believer in Creation, no Consciousness in Primordal man explians how Adam can be the first man created, ( with Consciousness). Therefore God is not responsible for giving Primordal man eternal Life, because they, like animals, were physio-chemical existence that was temporal, they had no morals or personality. It also further puts another hole, in the multi-holed theory of evolution. Evolutionist think that Primordal man evolved from Alge, to Ampibiam, to tadpole with legs, to crawling water-land creatures, to four legged land creatures, to two legged erectus Apes, to finally Human erectus. Literally rediculus and intellectually absurd. Astounding speculation that is designed to remove God from the picture.

But God cannot be moved. I think God wanted to see how humanity would adjust to every climate , every natural situation on earth, and to the physical human body itself, but he wanted to do this without humans suffering for no cause or reason, so why not create humanity without Consciousness, and let it run a course of some hundreds of thousands of years, while God observes and further prepares for humans with Consciousness.

And I want to go into that.

Peace.

 

[monta]

But God cannot be moved. I think God wanted to see how humanity would adjust to every climate , every natural situation on earth, and to the physical human body itself, but he wanted to do this without humans suffering for no cause or reason, so why not create humanity without Consciousness, and let it run a course of some hundreds of thousands of years, while God observes and further prepares for humans with Consciousness.
.

Sounds like your version of god is that of a scientist with no knowlege about the outcome of his experiments, who using people like guinea pigs.
Why then do you leap to the hypothesis that the human animal plays any greater significance in his experiments than a rat or a chimp or a fish.
It seems to me that your god is the embodiment of everything you despise.

 

[Dirty Penguin]

Sounds like your version of god is that of a scientist with no knowlege about the outcome of his experiments, who using people like guinea pigs.
Why then do you leap to the hypothesis that the human animal plays any greater significance in his experiments than a rat or a chimp or a fish.
It seems to me that your god is the embodiment of everything you despise.

Yea.... the story of Adam being put to sleep while "God" removes a rib to make Eve through gene manipulation really does sound kind of scientific.....

Although that does sound more science fiction.......:areyoucra

 

[mickiel]

Sounds like your version of god is that of a scientist with no knowlege about the outcome of his experiments, who using people like guinea pigs.
Why then do you leap to the hypothesis that the human animal plays any greater significance in his experiments than a rat or a chimp or a fish.
It seems to me that your god is the embodiment of everything you despise.

I really don't know, I am only speculating, I can't quite nail it down. I gave that senerio reluctantly, knowing people like you will throw out this experimenting scientist garbage. It was no experiment, God wanted to see how these humans adpapted with no consciousness. How the animals adapted, he created instincts, and he wanted to see how it actively played out. He wanted things to continue on their own,. what you may think is evolution, is actually the will of God unfolding.

I remember in Genesis when God created Adam, and brought the Animals to Adam, " To see what Adam would call them." God could have named the animals himself, but he wanted to see what Adam would call them. Just as he wanted to see how humans would live on instincts alone, before he gave them consciousness.

Peace.

 

[Alceste]

Being a believer in Creation, no Consciousness in Primordal man explians how Adam can be the first man created, ( with Consciousness). Therefore God is not responsible for giving Primordal man eternal Life, because they, like animals, were physio-chemical existence that was temporal, they had no morals or personality. It also further puts another hole, in the multi-holed theory of evolution. Evolutionist think that Primordal man evolved from Alge, to Ampibiam, to tadpole with legs, to crawling water-land creatures, to four legged land creatures, to two legged erectus Apes, to finally Human erectus. Literally rediculus and intellectually absurd. Astounding speculation that is designed to remove God from the picture.

But God cannot be moved. I think God wanted to see how humanity would adjust to every climate , every natural situation on earth, and to the physical human body itself, but he wanted to do this without humans suffering for no cause or reason, so why not create humanity without Consciousness, and let it run a course of some hundreds of thousands of years, while God observes and further prepares for humans with Consciousness.

And I want to go into that.

Peace.

I suppose you're unaware of the fact that civilization sprung up independently in several different parts of the world.

By 3000 years ago, civilization had arisen in at least seven places: Mesopotamia, Egypt, the Mediterranean, India, China, Mexico and Peru. Archaeology shows that only about half of these received their crops and cultural stimuli from others. The rest had built themselves up from scratch without suspecting anyone else in the world was doing the same.

Seriously, you HAVE to go learn some stuff before you form your opinions. You're embarrassing yourself.

 

[mickiel]

I suppose you're unaware of the fact that civilization sprung up independently in several different parts of the world.



Seriously, you HAVE to go learn some stuff before you form your opinions. You're embarrassing yourself.

I support these facts of Civilizations springing up in multiple places, and have NEVER suggested otherwise. Your so bent on finding fault in me, that you are criticizing me for things I agree with. Thats what happens to the mind when your only purpose is to be negative, critical and abusive, three things I dispise in Women.

Peace.

 

[Alceste]

I support these facts of Civilizations springing up in multiple places, and have NEVER suggested otherwise. Your so bent on finding fault in me, that you are criticizing me for things I agree with. Thats what happens to the mind when your only purpose is to be negative, critical and abusive, three things I dispise in Women.

Peace.

So which of those seven places I listed did your "Adam" live then, and how was consciousness transmitted to all the other geographically isolated parts?

BTW, it's spelled "despise".

 

[mickiel]

So which of those seven places I listed did your "Adam" live then, and how was consciousness transmitted to all the other geographically isolated parts?

BTW, it's spelled "despise".

Thank you for the spelling correction, I am a terrible speller, but improving. I think Adam lived in the Irag area. Consciousness was transmitted by God to Adam, and his generate spread out on their own and took consciousness with them. Simple as that.

Peace.

 

[mickiel]

I still maintain that writing and art are signs of consciousness. Writing proceeds from pictures of visual events to symbols of Phonetic events, which is an amazing transformation. The protoliterate pictograms of Uruk, the iconography in the early depictions of gods, the glyphics of the Maya, the picture codices of the Aztecs, and our own heraldry are all signs of consciousness. And I still maintain that lack of these two are then signs of no consciousness, with rare but known exceptions.

Often if there is no writing to translate the meaning of the art, then the meaning of the artist is forever lost. So the best kind of acient art, in my view, is the art called " Half meaning, half symbol", with Egyptian Hieroglyphics being a good example of that. Some later called it " Cuneiform."

And I want to go into this most unusual art form that included writing.

Peace.

 

[Alceste]

Thank you for the spelling correction, I am a terrible speller, but improving. I think Adam lived in the Irag area. Consciousness was transmitted by God to Adam, and his generate spread out on their own and took consciousness with them. Simple as that.

Peace.

So, in about 3000 BC, according to your own empty head, God made the first "conscious" man in Iraq, and before that there was no art, writing, culture, government, trade or civilization anywhere on earth? And after that every place where civilization arose were direct descendants of the original guy?

 

[mickiel]

So, in about 3000 BC, according to your own empty head, God made the first "conscious" man in Iraq, and before that there was no art, writing, culture, government, trade or civilization anywhere on earth? And after that every place where civilization arose were direct descendants of the original guy?

No, I never said that, it had to have been anywhere between 6,000 to 12,000, perhaps up to 14,000 years ago, I just don't know for sure. I have a request, its just a request, can we have this debate without you insulting me? Is it possible for you to leave out the arrogant insults and trival attacks on my personage?

If not, I can disreguard your disrespect and continue, but its just not something you have to do. Now if I am wrong, and you have a " Need to do it", well then I understand that you cannot help yourself.

Very unbecomming in a Woman.

Peace.