Consciousness, Mind, and Brain

[atanu]

Well, if one retains any degree of consciousness or awareness after physical death, one could conclude that the brain is not necessary for such phenomena. Although I do question if one's critical faculties would still be intact to make such a reassessment/recognition. Perhaps one may lose all of or the bulk of their memory to adapt to whatever new reality emerges. In such a case, one would not remember the question "Will my consciousness/awareness live on after my physical body/brain dies?"

Hello ToR,

The Vedantic position is that in this very life there is experience of brainless and even objectless consciousness.

 

[Elector]

Well, if one retains any degree of consciousness or awareness after physical death, one could conclude that the brain is not necessary for such phenomena. Although I do question if one's critical faculties would still be intact to make such a reassessment/recognition. Perhaps one may lose all of or the bulk of their memory to adapt to whatever new reality emerges. In such a case, one would not remember the question "Will my consciousness/awareness live on after my physical body/brain dies?"

From what I can gather, your suggestion can only prove the assertion that consciousness exists beyond the body, but never actually disprove it. Besides this would only prove to the physically dead person that consciousness exists beyond the body, but not to the rest of the world. This hardly qualifies as a proof in the scientific sense.

 

[TurkeyOnRye]

From what I can gather, your suggestion can only prove the assertion that consciousness exists beyond the body, but never actually disprove it.

Good catch.

Besides this would only prove to the physically dead person that consciousness exists beyond the body, but not to the rest of the world. This hardly qualifies as a proof in the scientific sense.

Well, theoretically, the experiment is repeatable. If anyone would like to test out this hypothesis, they're more than welcome.

 

[FearGod]

Good catch.



Well, theoretically, the experiment is repeatable. If anyone would like to test out this hypothesis, they're more than welcome.

I believe that the soul will realize that it left its body once death occurred.

It will lose connection with the world but all memories and thoughts will be still recorded on it,of course that can't be proven by science.

For example if one forgot something lets say a person name,then after a while he may remember the name, but who gives him the approval that what he remembered was the correct name if not recorded in a second memory which matching what he has in the brain.

 

[TurkeyOnRye]

I believe that the soul will realize that it left its body once death occurred.

It will lose connection with the world but all memories and thoughts will be still recorded on it,of course that can't be proven by science.

What makes you believe that?

 

[zenzero]

Friend atanu,

Consciousness, Mind, and Brain

Would guess that 'Consciousness' is the background of all things, it pervades everything. everything comes out and goes back to it. The resting place.

'MIND' is just a label for that space within everyone which is complimentary to 'consciousness' Its like the NIGHT where consciousness is DAY. Without the other creation is incomplete.
'BRAIN' helps in maintaining balance between mind and consciousness by getting the necessary work executed.

Love & rgds

 

[FearGod]

What makes you believe that?

It is how i feel about it,it is hard to be explained but i can realize that my body isn't me but to me.

 

[TurkeyOnRye]

Hello ToR,

The Vedantic position is that in this very life there is experience of brainless and even objectless consciousness.

And what is 'your' position? Do you believe that position despite that it is seemingly unverifiable?

 

[atanu]

And what is 'your' position? Do you believe that position despite that it is seemingly unverifiable?

It is not only verifiable. It is evident to oneself, if one contemplates and loosens up a bit on the notion that the observations/experiences of dream and sleep have only to be understood from the waking state.

 

[Ouroboros]

Are these three different or same? Kindly explain your reasons, with definition of the terms, whenever necessary.

Different.

Brain is the physical substrate.

Mind is the metaphysical property realized by the brain.

Consciousness is (to me) similar or the same as awareness, being aware of existing and having experiences.

 

[atanu]

Different.

Brain is the physical substrate.

Mind is the metaphysical property realized by the brain.

Consciousness is (to me) similar or the same as awareness, being aware of existing and having experiences.

Hello Ourboros

I am not clear about the distinction between brain that 'realizes' and consciousness that is 'aware'.

 

[atanu]

Different.

Brain is the physical substrate.

Mind is the metaphysical property realized by the brain.

Consciousness is (to me) similar or the same as awareness, being aware of existing and having experiences.

I am not clear about the distinction between brain that 'realizes' and consciousness that is 'aware'.

 

[Ouroboros]

Hello Ourboros

I am not clear about the distinction between brain that 'realizes' and consciousness that is 'aware'.

Part of the mystery.

 

[atanu]

Part of the mystery.

Ha ha. :yes:

 

[Ouroboros]

Ha ha. :yes:

I believe consciousness/awareness is a primary "thing" of reality. But I also believe that this awareness doesn't come to fruition (execution or realization as in "brought to existence", actualized, attained, emerged, substantiated) without a framework of time, space, substance, information exchange and processing. How it happens, is a mystery. That it is happening, that much we can see and know. Exactly how... well...

 

[atanu]

Friend atanu,

Would guess that 'Consciousness' is the background of all things, it pervades everything. everything comes out and goes back to it. The resting place.

'MIND' is just a label for that space within everyone which is complimentary to 'consciousness' Its like the NIGHT where consciousness is DAY. Without the other creation is incomplete.
'BRAIN' helps in maintaining balance between mind and consciousness by getting the necessary work executed.

Love & rgds

Thank you. I agree. May I request your observations/comments on

http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/3719887-post43.html

 

[atanu]

I believe consciousness/awareness is a primary "thing" of reality. But I also believe that this awareness doesn't come to fruition (execution or realization as in "brought to existence", actualized, attained, emerged, substantiated) without a framework of time, space, substance, information exchange and processing. How it happens, is a mystery. That it is happening, that much we can see and know. Exactly how... well...

A child does not come with ready made language and common human skills. It learns (and creates reality) with what it already has. It is equipped with consciousness. We are pure consciousness, devoid of thoughts, in our deep sleep. On that is painted the manifest picture. We don't see the canvass.

 

[Ouroboros]

A child does not come with ready made language and common human skills. It learns (and creates reality) with what it already has. It is equipped with consciousness. We are pure consciousness, devoid of thoughts, in our deep sleep. On that is painted the manifest picture. We don't see the canvass.

Consciousness is the level of awareness of things we can experience, or as Wiki states "quality or state of awareness."

Awareness requires senses. The senses aren't fully developed, so the awareness about one's existence in this world grows during development.

I don't think our consciousness is an essence independent of our bodies. There's a very strong co-dependence. Consciousness needs a body to exist. Body, soul, matter, time, existence, reality, spirit, consciousness, experience, process, information, here, there, all, it is all The One Essence.

There are however different levels of consciousness, meaning, during sleep (dreaming) we are on a low level. There are terms like unconscious and subconscious for a reason. Those terms, together with conscious, do have meanings and are different. If we are pure consciousness, there's never a subconsciousness, and we can never enter into an unconscious state. Those terms would lose their meaning.

 

[atanu]

Consciousness is the level of awareness of things we can experience, or as Wiki states "quality or state of awareness."

Awareness requires senses. The senses aren't fully developed, so the awareness about one's existence in this world grows during development.

I don't think our consciousness is an essence independent of our bodies. There's a very strong co-dependence. Consciousness needs a body to exist. Body, soul, matter, time, existence, reality, spirit, consciousness, experience, process, information, here, there, all, it is all The One Essence.

There are however different levels of consciousness, meaning, during sleep (dreaming) we are on a low level. There are terms like unconscious and subconscious for a reason. Those terms, together with conscious, do have meanings and are different. If we are pure consciousness, there's never a subconsciousness, and we can never enter into an unconscious state. Those terms would lose their meaning.

Of course my understanding of consciousness is widest, without any reference to its contents, and this differs from usual definitions. I noted my understanding in:


http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/3719886-post42.html

 

[Ouroboros]

Of course my understanding of consciousness is widest, without any reference to its contents, and this differs from usual definitions. I noted my understanding in:


http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/3719886-post42.html

Ok. I think we've fairly similar views.

One thing I know from years of experience is that we always will have a very difficult time explaining what we mean or how we see things. Trying to convey the exact image we have in our mind through a very flawed and incomplete medium as language is always causing some level of misunderstanding. I have a feeling that you and I have very similar thoughts, but we might be hitting our heads on the language barrier itself.

So with that said, we're good.