Consciousness, Mind, and Brain

[methylatedghosts]

An analogy that almost fits:
The car is your body
The engine your brain
Your mind is the interaction between you and the controls of the car
You as the driver is consciousness

 

[zenzero]

Friend atanu,

Whether Consciousness exists during deep sleep?

Good question.

Consciousness obviously is there everywhere but are we conscious of it?
The gap between being conscious and conciousness is the path/way we follow to bridge and when we are aware in sleep and practise being conscious of consciousness even in sleep. This is when we never sleep it is only the body that takes rest.
Yes it is easier said than done but the effort is in the direction. We can know everything but cannot BE without practise as that way we will be like 'parrots'.

Love & rgds

 

[atanu]

An analogy that almost fits:
The car is your body
The engine your brain
Your mind is the interaction between you and the controls of the car
You as the driver is consciousness

This is most apt. I wish to add a couple of points from the perspective of my dharma.

1. Mostly, we are stuck with the notion that we are mind-body and we are not aware of ourselves as Consciousness.

2. In its pure form, Consciousness that we are, is not the driver but is the onlooker. Between this pure screen of awareness and the mind-body, is the power of consciousness that is teacher/guide/conscience.

 

[atanu]

Friend atanu,


Good question.

Consciousness obviously is there everywhere but are we conscious of it?
The gap between being conscious and conciousness is the path/way we follow to bridge and when we are aware in sleep and practise being conscious of consciousness even in sleep. This is when we never sleep it is only the body that takes rest.
Yes it is easier said than done but the effort is in the direction. We can know everything but cannot BE without practise as that way we will be like 'parrots'.

Love & rgds

Although it may seem absurd from the conventional point of view whereby consciousness is equal to waking time thoughts etc., the fact is that we are aware in deep sleep also.

Else, who would want to sleep a little bit more and who would remember the deep sleep as peaceful and blissful?

 

[zenzero]

Friend atanu,

the fact is that we are aware in deep sleep also.

Else, who would want to sleep a little bit more and who would remember the deep sleep as peaceful and blissful?

Maybe have not been able to communicate properly.
When we sleep we will move in sleep because our mind's move. is activeand in different stages of sleep.
An awakened/enlightened person is always awake and even his body does not move.
In fact Gautama once told Ananda as to why he never changed his position in sleep and he said that he does not sleep and his body only takes rest.

Love & rgds

 

[atanu]

Friend atanu,


Maybe have not been able to communicate properly.
When we sleep we will move in sleep because our mind's move. is activeand in different stages of sleep.
An awakened/enlightened person is always awake and even his body does not move.
In fact Gautama once told Ananda as to why he never changed his position in sleep and he said that he does not sleep and his body only takes rest.

Love & rgds

Mind is what we observe. It is not me.

What I am trying to convey is that in deep sleep, the mindless awareness itself is revealed as pure peace and joy.

 

[zenzero]

Friend atanu,

What I am trying to convey is that in deep sleep, the mindless awareness itself is revealed as pure peace and joy.

We are speaking of two different experiences one that is awake already and the other who wakes up in the morning after a deep sleep.

Love & rgds

 

[atanu]

Friend atanu,


We are speaking of two different experiences one that is awake already and the other who wakes up in the morning after a deep sleep.

Love & rgds

Are you sure that one can have any experience in nirvikAra samAdhi, which is beyond mind and is devoid of time element because there is no subject-object division and thus no relative motion ?

However, that is one aspect. I am pointing out of the sleep itself. I am positing this question to a person who holds that in deep sleep there is no awareness. I am pointing out that there is.

 

[zenzero]

Friend atanu,

I am positing this question to a person who holds that in deep sleep there is no awareness. I am pointing out that there is.

Personally though have been trying for last few years to go into sleep with awareness but after sleep takes over the awareness is lost even in deep sleep.
Maybe others have awareness but not my experience.
A person who is already awake and no more sleeps has narrated what happens when he is said to be sleeping and take that as a que for an understanding.

Love & rgds

 

[atanu]

Friend atanu,
Personally though have been trying for last few years to go into sleep with awareness but after sleep takes over the awareness is lost even in deep sleep.
Maybe others have awareness but not my experience.

A person who is already awake and no more sleeps has narrated what happens when he is said to be sleeping and take that as a que for an understanding.

Love & rgds

It is the mind that transits from state to state: from deep sleep, to dream to waking. It becomes inactive in deep sleep.

Is the Being, that one is, asleep, when the mind is in deep sleep?

Regards

 

[zenzero]

Friend atanu,

It is the mind that transits from state to state: from deep sleep, to dream to waking. It becomes inactive in deep sleep.
Is the Being, that one is, asleep, when the mind is in deep sleep?

Guess we are speaking the same thing in different ways as to be conscious is to be conscious of the mind and the BEing is there when the Mind is.

Love & rgds

 

[methylatedghosts]

This is most apt. I wish to add a couple of points from the perspective of my dharma.

1. Mostly, we are stuck with the notion that we are mind-body and we are not aware of ourselves as Consciousness.

2. In its pure form, Consciousness that we are, is not the driver but is the onlooker. Between this pure screen of awareness and the mind-body, is the power of consciousness that is teacher/guide/conscience.

I think my analogy rather limited in describing consciousness, in that the "driver", while controlling the car, is simultaneously creating it, and the road it is being driven on. Also, the consciousness is not limited to the car. While driving, it could also be ahead on the road, looking for things, say a fork in the road, and communicating the information back to the car. Or it could also be way back, down a completely different road he took in a different vehicle centuries ago, perhaps looking for a solution to a problem previously encountered. He could be exploring a path he could have taken at the previous fork. He would be aware that he was creating the entire landscape and all the potential experiences, in constant communication with his "current" driver-self which is where his current main focus lies.

And I feel like that's just the beginning.

 

[atanu]

Devotee.: The mind is said to be from the brain.

Bhagavan (Shri Ramana Maharshi): Where is the brain? It is in the body. I say that the body itself is a projection of the mind. You speak of the brain when you think of the body. It is the mind which creates the body, the brain in it and also ascertains that the brain is its seat. (Talk 328).

.........

In my experience, it is important to first know oneself as the awareness that is the Seer of all the objects that we call as 'me' or 'mine'.

 

[idav]

Devotee.: The mind is said to be from the brain.

Bhagavan (Shri Ramana Maharshi): Where is the brain? It is in the body. I say that the body itself is a projection of the mind. You speak of the brain when you think of the body. It is the mind which creates the body, the brain in it and also ascertains that the brain is its seat. (Talk 328).

.........

In my experience, it is important to first know oneself as the awareness that is the Seer of all the objects that we call as 'me' or 'mine'.

When we are feeling something we are feeling chemical reactions produced by the brain. We know this because there is stimulus giving the mind these perceptions. When you see or tast something it is coming from your environment and being projected to your mind. However that is an intersting thing when you involve the body. Really the brain is very much part of the body because when the brain recieves a perception from the environment it that has to go back the other way and the mind projects the feelings back to the body. Both are true it must go both ways. However the feelings is a stream of consciousness a perpetual perception only allowed by our ability to recall it, meaning it has to physically stay with us, the things we percieve and learn, in order to be able to feel it again is something physically staying with our brain that can be recalled. You need a hard drive, that or a sky drive it doesnt change the mechanics.

 

[1137]

Researchers May Have Discovered The Consciousness On/Off Switch | IFLScience

 

[samosasauce]

psychology, psychiatry, and neurosciences says... it's complicated. Mind is thought to be part of the brain, but usually is a reference to what you can consciously control. Consciousness is being able to tell what's going on around you. I'd use quotes but I don't feel like breaking out all of my psychological book references right now. I will do so if someone asks me to do it, however.

 

[atanu]

psychology, psychiatry, and neurosciences says... it's complicated. Mind is thought to be part of the brain, but usually is a reference to what you can consciously control. Consciousness is being able to tell what's going on around you. I'd use quotes but I don't feel like breaking out all of my psychological book references right now. I will do so if someone asks me to do it, however.

Why not? Please go ahead and make that as tasty as samosa with tamarind sauce.

 

[atanu]

When we are feeling something we are feeling chemical reactions produced by the brain. We know this because there is stimulus giving the mind these perceptions. When you see or tast something it is coming from your environment and being projected to your mind. However that is an intersting thing when you involve the body. Really the brain is very much part of the body because when the brain recieves a perception from the environment it that has to go back the other way and the mind projects the feelings back to the body. Both are true it must go both ways. However the feelings is a stream of consciousness a perpetual perception only allowed by our ability to recall it, meaning it has to physically stay with us, the things we percieve and learn, in order to be able to feel it again is something physically staying with our brain that can be recalled. You need a hard drive, that or a sky drive it doesnt change the mechanics.

There is not only the physical body of the waking state.

In my eastern dharmic undestanding, awareness itself takes the form of waking universe with a self, or a dream universe with a self, or a homogeneous contrastless universe devoid of a self. These three states are witnessed by the Seer that is the true un-modified Consciousness or pure awareness without any modification.

 

[idav]

There is not only the physical body of the waking state.

In my eastern dharmic undestanding, awareness itself takes the form of waking universe with a self, or a dream universe with a self, or a homogeneous contrastless universe devoid of a self. These three states are witnessed by the Seer that is the true un-modified Consciousness or pure awareness without any modification.

I can agree with what you say there and then just have semantical issues with "un-modified Consciousness". Pure awareness makes a bit more sense to me semantically speaking but it pushes it, awareness in itself can't be shown to be the default. I also like to throw the word volitional but that is even pushing it, ID can't really be confirmed or denied.

As for the states, the wake and dream make little difference but interesting you say with self while it is void of consciousness. The homogeneous contrastless universe devoid of self sounds nothing like a un-modified consciousness, calling it a pure awareness is definitely pushing the envelope there, to me, scientifically I can argue it is omnipresent which can easily give rise to sort of ominiscience, the data is there and connected thats all you need but it is mindless and that is the issue with using the words "conscious" or "aware".

 

[atanu]

The homogeneous contrastless universe devoid of self sounds nothing like a un-modified consciousness, calling it a pure awareness is definitely pushing the envelope there, to me, scientifically I can argue it is omnipresent which can easily give rise to sort of ominiscience, the data is there and connected thats all you need but it is mindless and that is the issue with using the words "conscious" or "aware".

Those who have experienced the state of Seer say as below.

The Seer is above the homogeneous contrastless consciousness that we call deep sleep. The homogeneous consciousness contains the seeds of sprouting (desires) and thus it is called the causal body. The other two bodies are 'waking' and 'dream' bodies.

Because the sensual mind is product of the consciousness, it has no way to decipher the seeds embedded (desires) in the consciousness.

The Seer sees the dream and waking 'names-forms' sprout from the homogeneous conscious.

(For the sensual mind to assert that there is no Seer of the mind is naive. A character of a book cannot know its author.)