If it was God's revelation from the first place!This is something I do not understand:
How can God first reveal something and later take back his own revelation?
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Consequences of converting from Islam
- Thread starter Godwilling
- Start date
But the punishment is supposed to be in the afterlife,i know of the sahih hadiths but they should not supercede the Qur'an,the key IMO is the interpretation of spreading mischief,for example the Egyptian Blogger who left Islam Kareem Amer was given a four year jail sentence for criticising Islam and President Mubarak whereas in other Muslim majority countries he would be dead.
As for contradictions,yes i can see plenty,i think there over a thousand mistakes and contradictions in the Qur'an but thats going off topic and there have been plenty of threads regarding that already but feel free to start another.
This is something I do not understand:
How can God first reveal something and later take back his own revelation?
IMO a Human is apt to make a mistake
Marble
Rolling Marble
Sure.IMO a Human is apt to make a mistake
But God is assumed to be perfect and unfailable.
I would be interested to know how Islamic theology solves the problem.
Me too,not sure how it can be solved though
That's Sunnah:
Sunnah - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
As for apostasy, there are many people killed because of it. In Egypt, even the police did a lot of the dirty work.
Apostasy in Islam - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
There are many example of murder just because of criticism of islam:
Theo van Gogh (film director) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Farag Foda - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
And the list goes on...
I think punishment for Apostacy in this life or supposed after life is dispicable but in the Qur'an there is no punishment prescribed for Apostacy except in the after life,the problem as i see it is the hadith and sunna which have many contradictions to the Qur'an and considering the Qur'an is sent with a clear message they shouldn't be needed at all IMO.
"Qur'an is sent with a clear message "
From whom and what is the clear message?
I don't believe quran is from God.
When the sunna and hadiths that you don't like are the deeds and sayings of the man who claimed that he received the quran from God, then there is a problem.
These hadiths are in many books, approved by muslims over the ages since the beginning of islam till now, by Egypt's alazahar and Saudi arabia's ministry of religious affairs and all sunni muslims.
"Qur'an is sent with a clear message "
From whom and what is the clear message?
I don't believe quran is from God.
When the sunna and hadiths that you don't like are the deeds and sayings of the man who claimed that he received the quran from God, then there is a problem.
These hadiths are in many books, approved by muslims over the ages since the beginning of islam till now, by Egypt's alazahar and Saudi arabia's ministry of religious affairs and all sunni muslims.
Whoah,i don't believe the Qur'an or the Bible,i am saying though that the Qur'an is touted as a clear message to Mankind when in reality its not at all as the majority of Muslims need the hadith and sunna,other than that i'd agree.
OK, I agree with what you say about the quran only.
But I believe in the bible, I am Christian.
Anyway, if you want to read about really strange things about the quran, you might read about the 'muhallel' المحلل
Father Heathen
Veteran Member
Sounds like a healthy attitude to me.
Marble
Rolling Marble
Who or what is "muhallel"?
I would, but why don't you do some search first?
Yes, that's it. In arabic it's something between o and u.
Simply put, if a man divoces his wife (which in islam is as easy as uttering the word), another man must marry her and have sex with her so that the first man will be able to take her back again.
Now this second guy is the 'muhallel'. He is usually paid for the service, he marries the woman, have sex, next morning, divorce, so she's able to be back to her husband.
Many Sages One Truth
Active Member
I'm not an Atheist, but that's easy. Most could surmise that because they wouldn't like rape being done to them, maybe they shouldn't rape someone else. No moral code needed for that, that's common sense.
Many Sages One Truth
Active Member
Yes, Islam would be ten times more attractive as a religion if it'd drop the hadith and following scholars around like they're god's mouthpieces. A scholar issues a fatwa and slaps "Allah knows best" on the end and most of them line up. (Not all Muslims, just those who think scholars speak for God, or are somehow more equipped to interpret the Koran then the layman)
Marble
Rolling Marble
But that comes from hadith, not from Quran I think.
Here from the quran:
Q 2:230
And if he has divorced her [for the third time], then she is not lawful to him afterward until [after] she marries a husband other than him. And if the latter husband divorces her [or dies], there is no blame upon the woman and her former husband for returning to each other if they think that they can keep [within] the limits of Allah . These are the limits of Allah , which He makes clear to a people who know.
By the way, marry is تنكح in arabic which mean have sex.
Zhakir
Peace&Tolerance
As the Quran teaches, freedom of religion should be respected, anyone has the right to practice any religion and convert to any religion.
Say: Do you dispute with us about Allah, and He is our Lord and your Lord, and we shall have our deeds and you shall have your deeds, and we are sincere to Him.
2:139
There is no compulsion in religion; truly the right way has become clearly distinct from error; therefore
2:256
These are they of whom Allah knows what is in their hearts; therefore turn aside from them and admonish them, and speak to them effectual words concerning themselves.
4:63
And if your Lord had pleased, surely all those who are in the earth would have believed, all of them; will you then force men till they become believers?
10:99
And many other places.. However you are responsible in the hereafter for what you believe and what you do. That's about the religion of Submission to God (Islam).
Other religions claiming to be Islam (almost all other sects) put the capital punishment for apostasy, counting on hadiths contradicting the Quran, and on the theory of abrogation to cancel these beautiful Quranic verses.
Say: Do you dispute with us about Allah, and He is our Lord and your Lord, and we shall have our deeds and you shall have your deeds, and we are sincere to Him.
2:139
There is no compulsion in religion; truly the right way has become clearly distinct from error; therefore
2:256
These are they of whom Allah knows what is in their hearts; therefore turn aside from them and admonish them, and speak to them effectual words concerning themselves.
4:63
And if your Lord had pleased, surely all those who are in the earth would have believed, all of them; will you then force men till they become believers?
10:99
And many other places.. However you are responsible in the hereafter for what you believe and what you do. That's about the religion of Submission to God (Islam).
Other religions claiming to be Islam (almost all other sects) put the capital punishment for apostasy, counting on hadiths contradicting the Quran, and on the theory of abrogation to cancel these beautiful Quranic verses.