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Consequences of converting from Islam

Godwilling

Organic, kinetic learner
Leaving most Christian religions is fairly easy at present. There are some exceptions like the case of the Davidians in Waco, Texas, some Mormon sects and some other sects where power and control extend to breaking US law.

Long gone are the days of the Inquisition where people would be put to death for "not believing" in a prescribed manner.

I would like Muslims to educate me on the consequences of converting from Islam to another religion or to atheism and your views in the matter.

Thank you!
 
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A

angellous_evangellous

Guest
Did you mean Waco (correct) or Wacko (also correct)?
 

gnostic

The Lost One
godwilling said:
I would like Muslims to educate me on the consequences of converting from Islam to another religion or to atheism and your views in the matter.

There's a conversion to atheism?
 

gnostic

The Lost One
revoltingest said:
We have many converts.
We're quite popular among ex-Catholics in this area.
Atheism is not a religion.

When people leave the church, they just stop going and stop believing. From what I understand about atheists, they don't go to some sorts of organisations, like an atheistic temple or church or mosque.
 

Jesus4m3

Stop Being Ignorant!
Question to an Atheist. If someone rapes a little girl would you think its wrong? And if so where did you learn that from? Because your morality had to come from some source.
 

gnostic

The Lost One
Jesus4m3 said:
Question to an Atheist. If someone rapes a little girl would you think its wrong? And if so where did you learn that from? Because your morality had to come from some source.

I am not an atheist, but what make you think that rape (of girl or woman) would be acceptable to atheists?

Do you think that being a Christian make you morally superior?

I see that Christians make wrong decision like anyone else when it come to moral or crime. Most of the male criminals you would find in prisons in Florida come largely from Christian background, which is the same for every other states in the US.

As to where it come from. It can come from teachings from parents, educations, friends, etc.
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
Question to an Atheist. If someone rapes a little girl would you think its wrong? And if so where did you learn that from? Because your morality had to come from some source.
To me, & every other atheist I know, rape is wrong.

Where does this originate? Just as with believers, we get our morals from how our brain functions (genetics) & from culture around us.
The faithful often think their morals come from their scripture, but I see that to be false when members of the faith commit crimes in
violation of their dogma. People even changes faiths when the find another which suits them better. This points to morals not being
absolute. Moreover, I don't see the faithful being any more "moral" than we heathens are.
 
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LuisDantas

Aura of atheification
Premium Member
Question to an Atheist. If someone rapes a little girl would you think its wrong? And if so where did you learn that from? Because your morality had to come from some source.

Of course we do. Morality is something that people lend to religion, more than they borrow from it.

And what would it source be? Sometimes it is lent from external teachings and example. To some extent it always happens. But emulation can only go so far. Moral values must be self-taught to some extent, and they are all the more solid for that.

Incidentally, belief in God is not at all necessary as a source for morality. There are some people who manage to make it work, but as a rule such belief hinders moral development instead of helping it.
 

Jesus4m3

Stop Being Ignorant!
Of course we do. Morality is something that people lend to religion, more than they borrow from it.

And what would it source be? Sometimes it is lent from external teachings and example. To some extent it always happens. But emulation can only go so far. Moral values must be self-taught to some extent, and they are all the more solid for that.

Incidentally, belief in God is not at all necessary as a source for morality. There are some people who manage to make it work, but as a rule such belief hinders moral development instead of helping it.

Yes but if you believe in nothing, then you have nothing, which also means that you are nothing. Because to be able to distinct right from wrong is a moral decision and if you believe in nothing and sit there and borrow from moral beliefs then that means that you are confused. Because you have no foundation that's stable enough to claim to have invented a moral decision. Atheist borrow morals to make up their own belief system in their own heads.
 

Jesus4m3

Stop Being Ignorant!
I am not an atheist, but what make you think that rape (of girl or woman) would be acceptable to atheists?

Do you think that being a Christian make you morally superior?

I see that Christians make wrong decision like anyone else when it come to moral or crime. Most of the male criminals you would find in prisons in Florida come largely from Christian background, which is the same for every other states in the US.

As to where it come from. It can come from teachings from parents, educations, friends, etc.

If we were perfect we wouldn't need a savior would we? And how can you say that christians are doing wrong when you have no morals in your life. Unless you borrow them. I dont think myself highly better then anyone but i do say my father in heaven sees what i do. You are no one to judge and have no control over peoples decisions. No offense but Atheist are very confused people. That i bet that when the time comes to a near death experience they will call for some sort of help. Maybe even Jesus. But why? Because the confused people have no idea what's next after this and because their natural instinct is to call for help.

To me, & every other atheist I know, rape is wrong.

Where does this originate? Just as with believers, we get our morals from how our brain functions (genetics) & from culture around us.
The faithful often think their morals come from their scripture, but I see that to be false when members of the faith commit crimes in
violation of their dogma. People even changes faiths when the find another which suits them better. This points to morals not being
absolute. Moreover, I don't see the faithful being any more "moral" than we heathens are.

OK but if rape is wrong where do you get that feeling or view from? It must come from somewhere or some source. So now you cant get your morals from how your brain functions because if that was the case then you can do anything and think its right until you fail. There are people out there that kill others thinking that there's nothing wrong with that. Why because "that's how their brains function" so now this is a case your trying to prove without facts. The faithful being do have morals but just like our word says we are not perfect but to strive to do is better then not doing it at all. Don't judge others because they make mistakes just like you do. Would you like to be spoken down about? I'm sure not. Then don't do it.
 

LuisDantas

Aura of atheification
Premium Member
Yes but if you believe in nothing, then you have nothing, which also means that you are nothing. Because to be able to distinct right from wrong is a moral decision and if you believe in nothing and sit there and borrow from moral beliefs then that means that you are confused. Because you have no foundation that's stable enough to claim to have invented a moral decision. Atheist borrow morals to make up their own belief system in their own heads.

It is a long jump from me being an Atheist to believing in nothing. I don't even see how that could mean anything or happen in practice.

I'm an Atheist. A strong Atheist, as it turns out: I really doubt that Gods exists except as creations of human imagination and belief.

That is all. And in all fairness, that is not a big deal and doesn't have many consequences at all. God is not a particularly important concept, not even in the Abrahamic faiths that go out of their way to style themselves after it.

I believe in many things, with various degrees of certainty and consistency. It just turns out that I have no pressing desire to include the existence of God among them.

I most certainly don't need belief in God to make moral decisions. In all honesty, I doubt such a belief is even of much use for moral judgements among believers; God is such a misty, distant concept that it doesn't really have much use for moral and ethics - people project their own hopes and fears at their conceptions of God way too easily, for one. And once they do, they may easily take the miss-step of choosing dogma to direct their choices, and by that point the whole foundation of morals is lost.

Moral choices are human choices, make no mistake. They are certainly a challenge, but they have no need of nebulous, mysterious directives from supposedly transcendental beings. They are a direct consequence of our existence in a world that is not shaped towards easy decisions with harmless results. They are a practical need that every sentient being should recognize and address. It is the moral nature of our existence that motivates many people towards religion (which at its best addresses moral issues), not the other way around.

We Atheists do not live isolated from the nature of this world, and therefore have no less need (or foundation) for morals than any other healthy people.
 

Father Heathen

Veteran Member
Question to an Atheist. If someone rapes a little girl would you think its wrong? And if so where did you learn that from? Because your morality had to come from some source.

From reason and compassion. Why would you think an invisible sky daddy would be a prerequisite for ethics and morality?
 

Father Heathen

Veteran Member
Yes but if you believe in nothing, then you have nothing, which also means that you are nothing. Because to be able to distinct right from wrong is a moral decision and if you believe in nothing and sit there and borrow from moral beliefs then that means that you are confused. Because you have no foundation that's stable enough to claim to have invented a moral decision. Atheist borrow morals to make up their own belief system in their own heads.

Atheism isn't necessarily nihilistic. You make the mistake of assuming that both meaning and purpose require voodoo and fairy magic. We needn't "borrow" from primitive superstitions to have a conscience or to live meaningful and fulfilling lives.
 

Jesus4m3

Stop Being Ignorant!
It is a long jump from me being an Atheist to believing in nothing. I don't even see how that could mean anything or happen in practice.

I'm an Atheist. A strong Atheist, as it turns out: I really doubt that Gods exists except as creations of human imagination and belief.

That is all. And in all fairness, that is not a big deal and doesn't have many consequences at all. God is not a particularly important concept, not even in the Abrahamic faiths that go out of their way to style themselves after it.

I believe in many things, with various degrees of certainty and consistency. It just turns out that I have no pressing desire to include the existence of God among them.

I most certainly don't need belief in God to make moral decisions. In all honesty, I doubt such a belief is even of much use for moral judgements among believers; God is such a misty, distant concept that it doesn't really have much use for moral and ethics - people project their own hopes and fears at their conceptions of God way too easily, for one. And once they do, they may easily take the miss-step of choosing dogma to direct their choices, and by that point the whole foundation of morals is lost.

Moral choices are human choices, make no mistake. They are certainly a challenge, but they have no need of nebulous, mysterious directives from supposedly transcendental beings. They are a direct consequence of our existence in a world that is not shaped towards easy decisions with harmless results. They are a practical need that every sentient being should recognize and address. It is the moral nature of our existence that motivates many people towards religion (which at its best addresses moral issues), not the other way around.

We Atheists do not live isolated from the nature of this world, and therefore have no less need (or foundation) for morals than any other healthy people.

Well we are not technically isolated, that view comes from Atheist themselves and believe in pressure. See I was a atheist myself and learned that theres no such thing as a coincidence and always believed that everything happens for a reason, just like when you put bread in the toaster the reason behind it is to eat it. I have another question then. Do you believe everything happens for a reason?

From reason and compassion. Why would you think an invisible sky daddy would be a prerequisite for ethics and morality?

Because he wants us to make our life choices the right way and not go off like a crazy animal like it is now happening. See i believe in my religion because something supernatural that i cannot explain happened to me. I may not understand it but it sure did a great of big help in my life. Atheist to me have no valid thoughts in this life and its because the lack of understanding of, "why are we here for, and how did i came to be in this world, or what is my purpose?". Those are things to look at. One great big hug can change a persons life. Now why such a little thing can make a great impact in this world? Those are things that you should ask yourself. Not sit there and say. "well hmm today is just going to be a random day with no accomplishments and no desire to change anything". Idk but many of you are lost and im not saying this in a religious format but in a logical matter. Thinnk about those things. Think deeper and become more intellectual about the nature of ourselfs.
 

waitasec

Veteran Member
Long gone are the days of the Inquisition where people would be put to death for "not believing" in a prescribed manner.

I would like Muslims to educate me on the consequences of converting from Islam to another religion or to atheism and your views in the matter.

Thank you!

Psalm 14

1The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God.

so yes only a fool would go against the current...
 

Valjean

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Yes but if you believe in nothing, then you have nothing, which also means that you are nothing.
Where do you come up with this "belief in nothing" stuff, and why do you think it impacts morality?
You probably don't believe in Aslan the lion or Santa Clause, but I wouldn't accuse you of believing in nothing because of your A-Clausianism.
Some religions are not theistic. Many Buddhists, for example, do not incorporate any idea of divine personage into their religion, and who would accuse Buddhists of being immoral, much less "nothing?"

Because to be able to distinct right from wrong is a moral decision and if you believe in nothing and sit there and borrow from moral beliefs then that means that you are confused.
On the contrary. It is the religious that adopt or "borrow" moral rules. We atheists have a social conscience and develop our own, internalized morality, which is generally more benign and socially appropriate than the traditional morality of the Christians -- which could be said to be more appropriate to the tribes of Bedouin goatherds who originated it.

Because you have no foundation that's stable enough to claim to have invented a moral decision. Atheist borrow morals to make up their own belief system in their own heads.
There is a universal morality that is generally agreed upon everywhere: fairness, kindness, the golden rule, &c. Everyone agrees that theft, murder, &c is generally wrong. But when you base your morality on a formalized, prescriptive, inflexible set of rules it becomes easy to excuse such excesses as slavery, war and oppression.
Perhaps this is why we see an inverse relationship between crime and religiosity here In the US.

Rather than the atheists being morally adrift, I would say it was more the religious who are the moral cripples. Perhaps when you grow up with an imposed set of moral crutches there is no incentive to develop a strong, internalized moral skeleton.
 
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