contradictions in the bible???

[spiritually inclined]

From the point of view of a non-Christian, Christians are people who think that things that the rest of find evil, such as genocide, are good, as long as God commands them? So basically I should give any Christian a wide berth, stay away from them, really, as they are likely to suddenly murder my children and call it good? Should the rest of us now try to wipe out Christianity, just to protect ourselves from these dangerous people?

I completely agree with you that the beliefs Mister Emu is professing are dangerous and evil. However, it would be wrong to suggest that all Christians approach their religion and the Bible in this way. For people such as myself, religion and mythology in general are interesting human creations from which we can draw insight. We can form meaning together with other people in a community.

But I think forms of Christianity that make the Bible THE truth, THE word of God, have made the Bible and Christianity into something idolatrous and demonic.

James

 

[Scuba Pete]

So basically we can throw out the Bible out as a source of information? It's unreliable? How do you know there ever was such a guy as Jesus?

I believe you have already done that. I get a LOT from scripture, but I let the Spirit guide me into it's meanings.

 

[Scuba Pete]

Of course; it's completely inconsistent.

Only to you! To me, it is incredibly consistent. Fortunately, this wipes out any convenient stereotype of what YOU THINK Christians should believe.

 

[Scuba Pete]

But I think forms of Christianity that make the Bible THE truth, THE word of God, have made the Bible and Christianity into something idolatrous and demonic.

It is interesting to note, that scriptures DO NOT claim the following attributes:

• To be the Word of God. Jesus is: see John 1
• To be written by God. Inspired, yes, but not written.
• To be without Error. After all, it is written by MEN.

 

[gnostic]

How many times do I have to repeat myself? Man wrote the Bible: not God.

Do you seriously think that I don't know that man wrote each individual book in the bible?

I am arguing from the perspective of the literature, such as meaning, context, etc, irrespective of the author or origin of the book, because I am skeptical of large portions of the bible and I don't believe most of it.

Why would you think he wrote it without trying to make himself look as good as possible? Do you think that pride is a recent invention? God is love. You can know something is of God if it is of love.

Sorry, Pete, but do you think that Samuel wrote either of these books?

Samuel died some chapters before the end of 1st Samuel book, so I don't think he (Samuel) wrote this at all.

From the book of Samuel, particular the 1st one, the book is more than just about the kingdom of Israel; the main theme is the rise of David. The whole plot is how David rise up, while the genocide of Amalekites was the very beginning of Saul's downfall. What better way to make David a greater hero than Saul, then write a propaganda about how "good" and "obedient" David is to what I believe is a unjust God. Unjust because of God's systematic removal of Saul, but his order to have the Amalekite women and infants slaughtered.

Is that love, Pete?

Is it love that God is the one sending evil spirit to torment Saul? Strangely Satan is absent, the supposed ruler of evil spirits. No, Satan is no leader of evil spirits; God is.

You're attempting to whitewash what orders God gave in order to achieve his scheme. I think God would make Niccolo Machiavelli proud, because God is the master manipulator that make anything that Satan do, to look amateurish.

 

[Scuba Pete]

Sorry, Pete, but do you think that Samuel wrote either of these books?

No, why should I?

write a propaganda about how "good" and "obedient" David is to what I believe is a unjust God. Unjust because of God's systematic removal of Saul, but his order to have the Amalekite women and infants slaughtered.

Is that love, Pete?

So, you can't see how this was couched to suggest that God was behind these Machiavellian maneuvers? How better to JUSTIFY such deplorable acts, then to say that "The God made me do it". (My apologies to the fans of the late, great Flip Wilson for this parody of his humor)

You're attempting to whitewash what orders God gave in order to achieve his scheme. I think God would make Niccolo Machiavelli proud, because God is the master manipulator that make anything that Satan do, to look amateurish.

See? You are anthropomorphizing God. Do you REALLY believe that God wants us in Iraq? Or possibly, can you see that the Religious Right are using God to JUSTIFY their blood thirstiness? Now, do you think that somehow, the Israelites were above this?

I don't believe that God changed from a vengeful God in the OT to a loving God in the NT. Rather, I believe our PERCEPTION of God changed after God sent his son to straighten the record for us: God is LOVE.

 

[Autodidact]

No, why should I?
So, you can't see how this was couched to suggest that God was behind these Machiavellian maneuvers? How better to JUSTIFY such deplorable acts, then to say that "The God made me do it". (My apologies to the fans of the late, great Flip Wilson for this parody of his humor) See? You are anthropomorphizing God. Do you REALLY believe that God wants us in Iraq? Or possibly, can you see that the Religious Right are using God to JUSTIFY their blood thirstiness? Now, do you think that somehow, the Israelites were above this?

I don't believe that God changed from a vengeful God in the OT to a loving God in the NT. Rather, I believe our PERCEPTION of God changed after God sent his son to straighten the record for us: God is LOVE.

Since the Bible is full of inaccurate descriptions of God, His nature, actions and commandments, how do you tell when it is accurate, or is the Bible entirely irrelevant to your understanding of God?

 

[Poisonshady313]

Since the Bible is full of inaccurate descriptions of God, His nature, actions and commandments, how do you tell when it is accurate, or is the Bible entirely irrelevant to your understanding of God?

I think Pete sticks to the parts of the Bible that don't, at any given moment, **** off non-believers too much.

 

[gnostic]

See? You are anthropomorphizing God. Do you REALLY believe that God wants us in Iraq?

I am agnostic. I am both doubtful and skeptical of god's existence. I don't blame God for anything.

I didn't write your stupid bible. I look at your bible, and this is "what I see" in your god. There's nothing to say that I believe in your god. I am just pointing out the "obvious" points in your scripture, not in what I believe in your god or your scripture.

I am wondering if you can see the difference of "what I am doing" to "what I am believing".

As to Iraq, don't put idea in my mouth. I am not the one who say God tell us to go and invade Iraq. Don't confuse me with Georgie Bl3@dy Bush!

I feel "insulted". :tsk:

I don't believe that God changed from a vengeful God in the OT to a loving God in the NT.

I don't think he has changed at all. He is still a vengeful god in the NT, if we are to believe that he will throw everyone, who are "good" but "don't believe in him", into hell. This is even more vindictive and vicious god than the OT God.

 

[Autodidact]

I think Pete sticks to the parts of the Bible that don't, at any given moment, **** off non-believers too much.

What about you, Poison? Are you an observant Jew? Do you worship this same genocidal God?

 

[Scuba Pete]

Since the Bible is full of inaccurate descriptions of God, His nature, actions and commandments, how do you tell when it is accurate, or is the Bible entirely irrelevant to your understanding of God?

Ask me something HARD! The obvious answer is the Spirit.

I Corinthians 2:10 but God has revealed it to us by his Spirit.
The Spirit searches all things, even the deep things of God. 11 For who among men knows the thoughts of a man except the man's spirit within him? In the same way no one knows the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God. 12 We have not received the spirit of the world but the Spirit who is from God, that we may understand what God has freely given us. 13 This is what we speak, not in words taught us by human wisdom but in words taught by the Spirit, expressing spiritual truths in spiritual words. 14 The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned. 15 The spiritual man makes judgments about all things, but he himself is not subject to any man's judgment:
16 "For who has known the mind of the Lord
that he may instruct him?" But we have the mind of Christ.NIV

 

[Autodidact]

Ask me something HARD! The obvious answer is the Spirit.

I Corinthians 2:10 but God has revealed it to us by his Spirit.
The Spirit searches all things, even the deep things of God. 11 For who among men knows the thoughts of a man except the man's spirit within him? In the same way no one knows the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God. 12 We have not received the spirit of the world but the Spirit who is from God, that we may understand what God has freely given us. 13 This is what we speak, not in words taught us by human wisdom but in words taught by the Spirit, expressing spiritual truths in spiritual words. 14 The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned. 15 The spiritual man makes judgments about all things, but he himself is not subject to any man's judgment:
16 "For who has known the mind of the Lord
that he may instruct him?" But we have the mind of Christ.NIV

Could you expound a little in your own words please? Be a little more specific about what the spirit is, how you know, and how you know it's accurate?

btw, how do you know that this passage itself is reliable? Might it not also be just one guy's opinion?

 

[Scuba Pete]

I didn't write your stupid bible.

Interesting. You show a complete lack of understanding the scriptures, you detest those of us who DO understand the scriptures and you are dead set on trying to show God as something he isn't. Yet, you call an inanimate object "stupid". How droll.

BTW, adding insult to your injury here; You COMPLETELY missed the parallel I was drawing between Shrub's invocation of God's will to wage war against Iraqi with what you just read quoted from Scriptures. Somehow, you thought I was referring to you? Bwahahahaha! Bwahahahahahahaha!

 

[Scuba Pete]

Could you expound a little in your own words please?

I could, but we would be getting FURTHER off topic. Start a thread asking specific questions about the Spirit, and I will be glad to join in! Don't forget to PM me the link.

 

[Autodidact]

I could, but we would be getting FURTHER off topic. Start a thread asking specific questions about the Spirit, and I will be glad to join in! Don't forget to PM me the link.

No, it's directly relevant to the subject of contradictions in the Bible and how the individual Christian resolves them. Apparently you resolve them by listening to something you call "the Spirit." How does that work for you? And again, didn't you rely on the Bible to know the Spirit gives you this guidance? How do you know that passage is reliable?

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

I didn't write your stupid bible. I look at your bible, and this is "what I see" in your god.

Mirrors everywhere ...

 

[Scuba Pete]

Actually, God calls it the Spirit as well as our Counselor. You might call it your conscience until you embrace it fully for what it really is: God within us.

As for how I KNOW that the scripture is correct: i merely use the fruits of the Spirit to see if it fits.

Galatians 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law. NIV

 

[Autodidact]

Actually, God calls it the Spirit as well as our Counselor. You might call it your conscience until you embrace it fully for what it really is: God within us.

As for how I KNOW that the scripture is correct: i merely use the fruits of the Spirit to see if it fits.

Galatians 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law. NIV

O.K., so if I understand you correctly, an inner voice, which you may call Spirit, Counselor, or conscience, guides you as to which scriptures are accurate? And you can also use reasoning of a sort to figure out whether those scriptures lead to love, joy, peace, patience, etc., and if they don't, they're probably wrong? Is that an accurate summary?

And for the third time, how did you know whether to rely on the scripture that tells you to rely on the Spirit?

 

[angellous_evangellous]

***MOD ADVISORY***

Please stay on topic and refrain from personal comments.

Thanks

 

[Poisonshady313]

What about you, Poison? Are you an observant Jew? Do you worship this same genocidal God?

I am semi-observant, and yes, I worship this same genocidal God.

Exodus 15

1. Then Moses and the children of Israel sang this song to the Lord, and they spoke, saying, I will sing to the Lord, for very exalted is He; a horse and its rider He cast into the sea.

2. The Eternal's strength and His vengeance were my salvation; this is my God, and I will make Him a habitation, the God of my father, and I will ascribe to Him exaltation.

3. The Lord is a Master of war; the Lord is His Name.

4. Pharaoh's chariots and his army He cast into the sea, and the elite of his officers sank in the Red Sea.

5. The depths covered them; they descended into the depths like a stone.

6. Your right hand, O Lord, is most powerful; Your right hand, O Lord, crushes the foe.

7. And with Your great pride You tear down those who rise up against You; You send forth Your burning wrath; it devours them like straw.

8. And with the breath of Your nostrils the waters were heaped up; the running water stood erect like a wall; the depths congealed in the heart of the sea.

9. [Because] the enemy said, I will pursue, I will overtake, I will share the booty; my desire will be filled from them; I will draw my sword, my hand will impoverish them.

10. You blew with Your wind, the sea covered them; they sank like lead in the powerful waters.

11. Who is like You among the powerful, O Lord? Who is like You, powerful in the holy place? Too awesome for praises, performing wonders!

12. You inclined Your right hand; the earth swallowed them up.

13. With Your loving kindness You led the people You redeemed; You led [them] with Your might to Your holy abode.

14. People heard, they trembled; a shudder seized the inhabitants of Philistia.

15. Then the chieftains of Edom were startled; [as for] the powerful men of Moab, trembling seized them; all the inhabitants of Canaan melted.

16. May dread and fright fall upon them; with the arm of Your greatness may they become as still as a stone, until Your people cross over, O Lord, until this nation that You have acquired crosses over.

17. You shall bring them and plant them on the mount of Your heritage, directed toward Your habitation, which You made, O Lord; the sanctuary, O Lord, [which] Your hands founded.

18. The Lord will reign to all eternity