Convergence Of Signs

[Subduction Zone]

I can recall believing what the OP believes regarding the alleged end times. I used to study this topic when I was still a Christian and could explain what I believed without having to consult my research notes or look it up online for assistance. I read and studied the Bible numerous times during the thirty years I was a devout Christian, including extensive study of the Bible and Christian theology while I was training to be an evangelism team leader and extensively studying the Bible and Christian theology while assisting my nephew in his extended theological studies to become an ordained minister.

Truth be told, I essentially studied my way out of believing the Bible, which led to further focused study and research in and out of Christianity. It ultimately led me to disavow my belief in God and my faith in Jesus. Other circumstances also contributed to my decision to renounce my belief in God and abandon Christianity, but I studied my way out of believing in the Bible and God. Ironically, my nephew did as well. He was studying to be a pastor, so it took him longer to admit that he no longer believed in God or in the Bible than it did me, but he finally admitted it. It was hard on him too. He is an agnostic now, like I am.

All religions tend to have some good teachings. Those can make it hard to leave them at times. But almost all of them also have some very wrong teachings. Some people keep the good and throw away the bad, but lately in the US I have seen the opposite among many of the religious.

 

[InChrist]

Assuming a God exists. We don't see any God acting in our world, so all we are left if you believers trying to back up your fantastioc claims. Since your God is absent, why don't you explain how your exagerated beliefs are true and we should take them serioulsy. Don't forget the history of Christianity that has many hundreds of false predictions, so your track record is very bad. Since your track record is so bad we can't just take your word for it. Where is your absent God?

Well the Catholics and Lutherans of 1940's Germany had no problem exterminating 6 million Jews, so it's fair to say Christians aren't the most emotionally stable bunch historically. Why do Christians need to believe at all when atheists and Muslims and Hindus get along fine without Christian dogma? Why do fundamentalist Christian need to drag everyone down in their toxic theology? At least atheists don't believe so we are immune to this emotional expoitation. I feel bad for Christian children who are exposed to this toxicity and are emotionally damaged as a result. It borders on abuse.

How about you, do you think it cruel and unnecessary to tell children what you are saying in this thread if it causes them distress?

What is distressing about it?

 

[Left Coast]

I agree and think that Day is imminent.

So did Jesus and the Apostles 2,000 years ago.

I’m ready are you?

If it happens as Jesus predicted, God will be my judge.

 

[F1fan]

I can recall believing what the OP believes regarding the alleged end times. I used to study this topic when I was still a Christian and could explain what I believed without having to consult my research notes or look it up online for assistance. I read and studied the Bible numerous times during the thirty years I was a devout Christian, including extensive study of the Bible and Christian theology while I was training to be an evangelism team leader and extensively studying the Bible and Christian theology while assisting my nephew in his extended theological studies to become an ordained minister.

Truth be told, I essentially studied my way out of believing the Bible, which led to further focused study and research in and out of Christianity. It ultimately led me to disavow my belief in God and my faith in Jesus. Other circumstances also contributed to my decision to renounce my belief in God and abandon Christianity, but I studied my way out of believing in the Bible and God. Ironically, my nephew did as well. He was studying to be a pastor, so it took him longer to admit that he no longer believed in God or in the Bible than it did me, but he finally admitted it. It was hard on him too. He is an agnostic now.

I'm curious how old you were when you first became a believer and when you snapved out of it. It's one thing to tell children that Jesus saves. But it's another to tell children this end times nonsense that can really affect their mental health. It's abuse to my mind.

 

[F1fan]

What is distressing about it?

That you don't understand is disturbing. This illustrates how Christians can be so detached from morality that the Holocaust can happen with Christians being mass murderers and not understand what's wrong with eliminating Jews.

And where is your absent God?

 

[InChrist]

You might want to turn up your skepticism a notch. But at any rate, there has been a "convergence" of the signs ever since the time of Jesus and probably before that.

I would say there have been signs ever since the time of Christ, but not the convergence of signs as at present, certainly not before Israel was re-established as a nation back in its former land.

 

[Trailblazer]

Yes, Jesus said no one would know the day or the hour and that He would come unexpectedly.

No, Jesus did not say that He would come unexpectedly. He said we would not know the day and the hour when the Lord would come.
Jesus is not the Lord and Jesus is not the Son of man that came as a theif in the night. That was another person.

Matthew 24:42-44
42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.
43 But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up.
44 Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.

2 Peter 3:10
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

 

[Trailblazer]

Jesus told His disciples He was leaving and they wouldn’t see him any longer, but He clearly said He would return again…

And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and receive you to Myself; that-where I am, there you may be also. John 14:3

John 14:2-3 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

Jesus said He would come again, but Jesus did not say ‘how’ He would come so there is no reason to think this one verse is Jesus saying He will come to earth again in the same physical body He had when He walked the earth 2,000 years ago.

When Jesus said “I will come again” He was not referring to His physical body coming again. Jesus said that His work was finished here and He was no more in the world: (John 14:19, John 17:4, John 17:11).

Since Jesus said He was no more in the world and the world would see Him no more we know that when He said "and receive you unto myself" He was not talking about His physical body, but rather He was referring to His spirit. Also please note that Jesus did not ever say He would come again and ‘do’ anything on earth that would require a body, like building a Kingdom of God on earth, as most Christians believe Jesus will do.

"and receive you unto myself" is obviously about the Spirit of Jesus, not about His physical body, because there would be no way that the disciples Jesus was speaking to could receive the body of Jesus on earth since they were no longer living on earth. Where Jesus was in heaven and that is where the disciples also are, so that is where Jesus received them. That is why Jesus said that He went to prepare a place for them, a place in heaven, not on earth.

The spirit of Jesus did come again, in the Person of Baha'u'llah who was the return of Christ that Jesus promised. So when Jesus said “I will come again” He meant that His Spirit would come again because He would send His Spirit from the Father, and we see that in the verses that follow in John 14. Jesus promised not to leave us comfortless and then He said He would send a Comforter. The Comforter refers to the person who would be the return of Christ. So when Jesus said I will come again, He meant He would send His spirit in the person of the Comforter who would do what it says in John 14:26.

"and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also” is referring to heaven, not earth, because Jesus was going to heaven to prepare a place in heaven, not on earth. Jesus was preparing a place in heaven so they could be with him in heaven.

John 14:3 is one of the most misunderstood verses in the New Testament so it is no wonder the Bible commentaries do not agree on what it means.

Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
Matthew 24:30

Yes, Jesus said they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
Jesus never said that they will see me coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

Who is the Son of man who will come in the clouds of heaven?

And behold, I am coming quickly, and My reward is with Me, to give to every one according to his work. 13 I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End, the First and the Last.”
Revelation 22:12-13

That is not Jesus speaking. Jesus did not write the Book of Revelation.

Revelation 22 is the twenty-second and final chapter of the Book of Revelation or the Apocalypse of John, and the final chapter of the New Testament and of the Christian Bible. The book is traditionally attributed to John the Apostle.

Revelation 22 - Wikipedia​

 

[InChrist]

That you don't understand is disturbing. This illustrates how Christians can be so detached from morality that the Holocaust can happen with Christians being mass murderers and not understand what's wrong with eliminating Jews.

And where is your absent God?

I don’t think you are being very clear, nor understand why you’re connecting prophecy, the Holocaust, and claiming God as absent all in on convoluted paragraph.

To begin with, I don’t think God is absent, but very much present and at work throughout history…although He is determined to allow humans freedom to choose good or evil, seek Him or not. The consequences play out in the real world; the Holocaust being an epitome of evil perpetuated by human beings against other human beings. Many claim to be Christians, whether Catholic, Lutheran, Baptist, whatever, but may be merely practicing religion. Those who are truly in a living relationship with Jesus Christ are not religionists. Corrie ten Boom and Dietrich Bonhoeffer demonstrated the truth and love of Christ by hiding Jews, standing against the Nazis, and facing concentration camp or death themselves.

 

[Sgt. Pepper]

I'm curious how old you were when you first became a believer and when you snapved out of it. It's one thing to tell children that Jesus saves. But it's another to tell children this end times nonsense that can really affect their mental health. It's abuse to my mind.

I was 17 when I became a Christian and 47 when I renounced my belief in God and left Christianity. I believed in God ten years before I became a Christian, and I grew up attending church. Going to church was one of the few escapes I had to get away from being abused at home and bullied by other kids.

 

[InChrist]

So did Jesus and the Apostles 2,000 years ago.



If it happens as Jesus predicted, God will be my judge.

I like your responses. If the Apostles thought it was imminent, then how much closer it must be now! Especially with Israel re-established as a nation (besides Christ, Israel is the main focus of the Bible) and the technology now in place to unite the world on a global scale.

Yes, my view, too. God is the only just and merciful judge.

 

[InChrist]

John 14:2-3 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

Jesus said He would come again, but Jesus did not say ‘how’ He would come so there is no reason to think this one verse is Jesus saying He will come to earth again in the same physical body He had when He walked the earth 2,000 years ago.

When Jesus said “I will come again” He was not referring to His physical body coming again. Jesus said that His work was finished here and He was no more in the world: (John 14:19, John 17:4, John 17:11).

Since Jesus said He was no more in the world and the world would see Him no more we know that when He said "and receive you unto myself" He was not talking about His physical body, but rather He was referring to His spirit. Also please note that Jesus did not ever say He would come again and ‘do’ anything on earth that would require a body, like building a Kingdom of God on earth, as most Christians believe Jesus will do.

"and receive you unto myself" is obviously about the Spirit of Jesus, not about His physical body, because there would be no way that the disciples Jesus was speaking to could receive the body of Jesus on earth since they were no longer living on earth. Where Jesus was in heaven and that is where the disciples also are, so that is where Jesus received them. That is why Jesus said that He went to prepare a place for them, a place in heaven, not on earth.

The spirit of Jesus did come again, in the Person of Baha'u'llah who was the return of Christ that Jesus promised. So when Jesus said “I will come again” He meant that His Spirit would come again because He would send His Spirit from the Father, and we see that in the verses that follow in John 14. Jesus promised not to leave us comfortless and then He said He would send a Comforter. The Comforter refers to the person who would be the return of Christ. So when Jesus said I will come again, He meant He would send His spirit in the person of the Comforter who would do what it says in John 14:26.

"and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also” is referring to heaven, not earth, because Jesus was going to heaven to prepare a place in heaven, not on earth. Jesus was preparing a place in heaven so they could be with him in heaven.

John 14:3 is one of the most misunderstood verses in the New Testament so it is no wonder the Bible commentaries do not agree on what it means.

Yes, Jesus said they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
Jesus never said that they will see me coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

Who is the Son of man who will come in the clouds of heaven?

That is not Jesus speaking. Jesus did not write the Book of Revelation.

Revelation 22 is the twenty-second and final chapter of the Book of Revelation or the Apocalypse of John, and the final chapter of the New Testament and of the Christian Bible. The book is traditionally attributed to John the Apostle.

Revelation 22 - Wikipedia​

You are entitled to your religious views, but I don’t think the Baha’i theology is correct, nor the idea that the spirit of Jesus Christ came in the person of Baha'u'llah. Throughout the biblical Gospels Jesus was very clear about Who He was, what His purpose and mission was, and that He would come again at the end of the age to bring judgment and save Israel. The whole of scripture shows that Jesus literally Himself will restore Israel and rule the earth from Jerusalem for 1000 years.
So again, you are entitled to your views, but I am not interested in getting off into Baha’i beliefs.

 

[F1fan]

I don’t think you are being very clear or why you’re connecting prophecy, the Holocaust, and claiming God as absent all in on convoluted paragraph.

You might have a reason to not follow what I'm saying.

To begin with, I don’t think God is absent, but very much present and at work throughout history…

Only in stories, not in any objective sense. So no, it's an absent God.

although He is determined to allow humans freedom to choose good or evil, seek Him or not.

So says you, while your God remains absent and quiet. So I'm not convinced you speak for your absent God.

The consequences play out in the real world; the Holocaust being an epitome of evil.

Yes, brought about by Christians. Why is that? Shouldn't Christians known not to commit evil?

Many claim to be Christians, whether Catholic, Lutheran, Baptist, whatever, but may be merely practicing religion.

Could it be all Christians make this claim, and it means little?

Those who are truly in a living relationship with Jesus Christ are not religionists.

Then why do they have religious beliefs?

Corrie ten Boom and Dietrich Bonhoeffer demonstrated the truth and love of Christ by hiding Jews, standing against the Nazis, and facing concentration camp or death themselves.

As would atheists who take their morals seriously. This doesn't explain the failure of those Christians who willfully killed Jews.

 

[F1fan]

I was 17 when I became a Christian and 47 when I renounced my belief in God and left Christianity. I believed in God ten years before I became a Christian, and I grew up attending church. Going to church was one of the few escapes I had to get away from being abused at home and bullied by other kids.

Wow that is much longer than I thought. I was always a skeptic and watched my twin sister move from one religion to another over the years starting in the 7th grade. She got full emersion baptized at her best friend's church. I had to go and was just totally flummoxed why she wanted to do this. She was always looking for something and she never seemed to be at peace.

 

[InChrist]

You might have a reason to not follow what I'm saying.

Only in stories, not in any objective sense. So no, it's an absent God.

So says you, while your God remains absent and quiet. So I'm not convinced you speak for your absent God.

Yes, brought about by Christians. Why is that? Shouldn't Christians known not to commit evil?

Could it be all Christians make this claim, and it means little?

Then why do they have religious beliefs?

As would atheists who take their morals seriously. This doesn't explain the failure of those Christians who willfully killed Jews.

The Holocaust was not brought about by Christians. It was brought about by Hitler who was heavily involved in occultism. He hated the Jews because Satan hates the Jews. Hitler as inspired, probably possessed by satan, hated Jewish people.
The Bible explains why anyone killed Jews, whoever the were; the sinful, self-serving nature.

 

[F1fan]

The Bible explains why anyone killed Jews, whoever the were; the sinful, self-serving nature.

This isn't a satisfactory response. If you can't answer questions yourself then hiding behind the Bible is even worse. Can you not think for yourself?

 

[InChrist]

This isn't a satisfactory response. If you can't answer questions yourself then hiding behind the Bible is even worse. Can you not think for yourself?

It’s a satisfactory answer from my perspective because I agree with the Bible. Not hiding at all, it makes perfect sense to me and lines up with reality and life in this world. That’s what I THINK.

Please re-read my previous post, as I edited it and included something further.

 

[Trailblazer]

You are entitled to your religious views, but I don’t think the Baha’i theology is correct, nor the idea that the spirit of Jesus Christ came in the person of Baha'u'llah. Throughout the biblical Gospels Jesus was very clear about Who He was, what His purpose and mission was, and that He would come again at the end of the age to bring judgment and save Israel. The whole of scripture shows that Jesus literally Himself will restore Israel and rule the earth from Jerusalem for 1000 years.

All I can say is that it is not in the Bible that Jesus will return to earth. You cannot make something be in the Bible that is not in the Bible.
All you can do is interpret verses to mean what you want them to mean.

No, there is no scripture that says that Jesus literally Himself will restore Israel and rule the earth from Jerusalem for 1000 years.

Throughout the biblical Gospels Jesus was very clear about Who He was, what His purpose and mission was. His mission was to bear witness unto the truth about God and give His life on the cross as a ransom. Jesus accomplished His mission on earth so there is no reason for Jesus to return to earth.

John 19:30 When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost.

John 18:37 Pilate therefore said unto him, Art thou a king then? Jesus answered, Thou sayest that I am a king. To this end was I born, and for this cause came I into the world, that I should bear witness unto the truth. Every one that is of the truth heareth my voice.

So again, you are entitled to your views, but I am not interested in getting off into Baha’i beliefs.

I am not interested in arguing about this. I have said what I have to say. I know I will never convince Christians to stop waiting for Jesus to return because they want to believe He is going to return so they will hold onto that belief till they die.

 

[sun rise]

not before Israel was re-established as a nation back in its former land.

Depending on the translation, the Quran, 17:104, says that explicitly. (That is of course highly controversial among Muslims)

Surah Al-Isra Ayat 104 (17:104 Quran) With Tafsir - My Islam

Read Surah Al-Isra Ayat 104 (17:104) with translation. Included verse by verse commentary with tafsir for those looking to learn about this ayah in detail.

myislam.org

Sahih International And We said after Pharaoh to the Children of Israel, “Dwell in the land, and when there comes the promise of the Hereafter, We will bring you forth in [one] gathering.”
Yusuf Ali And We said thereafter to the Children of Israel, “Dwell securely in the land (of promise)”: but when the second of the warnings came to pass, We gathered you together in a mingled crowd.
Abul Ala Maududi and thereafter We said to the Children of Israel: “Now dwell in the land, but when the promised time of the Hereafter comes, We shall bring you all together.”
Muhsin Khan And We said to the Children of Israel after him: “Dwell in the land, then, when the final and the last promise comes near [i.e. the Day of Resurrection or the descent of Christ [‘Iesa (Jesus), son of Maryam (Mary) on the earth]. We shall bring you altogether as mixed crowd (gathered out of various nations). [Tafsir Al-Qurtubi, Vol. 10, Page 338]
Pickthall And We said unto the Children of Israel after him: Dwell in the land; but when the promise of the Hereafter cometh to pass We shall bring you as a crowd gathered out of various nations.
Dr. Ghali And We said to Seeds of after him, “Dwell in the land; then when the promise of the Hereafter comes, We will cause you to come clustering.”
Abdel Haleem After his death, We told the Children of Israel, ‘Live in the land, and when the promise of the Hereafter is fulfilled, We shall bring you to the assembly of all people.’

 

[Unfettered]

I think the indications of the soon return of Christ are converging rapidly and it’s time for Christians and especially the unsaved to pay attention.
That’s my perspective anyway, share yours.



The Rush To Divide Israel

The Push For Digital Currencies​

The Threat Of World War III​

UFOs And Aliens​

The UN’s Seven-year Commitment​

Days Of Noah And Lot​

“We most assuredly live in biblical times. The convergence of signs is like that of the grand finale of a fireworks show that noisily illuminates the sky with its bright display of colors. Yet sadly, many believers and pastors turn their heads and walk away from the spectacle telling themselves and others, “There’s nothing to see here.”

I also believe the words of Proverbs 1:20apply here: “Wisdom crieth without; she uttereth her voice in the streets:”

The myriad of signs, along with the voices of many students of Bible prophecy, sound the alarm regarding the nearness of the Tribulation. Wisdom continues to cry out with the message that Jesus is coming soon, but so few are paying attention.”

I see what you see. And this verse adds an additional sign that is fulfilled today, including by some who have posted in this thread (irony?):

"And in that day shall be heard of wars and rumors of wars, and the whole earth shall be in commotion, and men's hearts shall fail them, and they shall say that Christ delayeth his coming until the end of the earth." (Doctrine and Covenants | Section 45:26)​