Conversion after death

[Vinayaka]

Buddha preached non-violence, gentleness, charity, self-discipline, detachment from possessions, detachment from materialism, and worldliness, humility, meekness and many of the virtues that Jesus preached. But he didn't accept Christ because he had never heard of the man, and wasn't a Jew, so didn't know about the God of Abraham. You seriously think he went to Hell??

The idea that there are only two options, heaven and hell, is outside the dharmic paradigm. So it makes no sense. We have the other option ... neither.

 

[columbus]

The beliefs, doctrines and dogma of the Roman Church are what they are and not what you want them to be.

Not all that many of the billion or so Catholics are nearly as legalistic as you are.
Just sayin'
Tom

 

[shunyadragon]

To say there is no conversion after death, is to say that all people who never heard of Christ or the god of Abraham went to hell. This is preposterous! Hence in order for any of those people to make it to Heaven, that would have to mean there was a conversion after death, meaning the dead were presented with the truth and evangelized.

Scripture even speaks of the Gospel being preached to the dead and those in prison. You are pinned in a corner mate.

already described the Roman Church Doctrine concerning this, and you have not acknowledged it. The sincere that have no knowledge of Jesus Christ nor the Roman Church have special consideration in the judgement based on the belief in the potential of ;Universal Salvation,' and has nothing to with the issue at hand. The doctrine is specific and allows for the possibility of Salvation up until the moment of death. Children under the age of consent (age of responsibility for ones own decisions.) We have been over this before. You should no better, because you have your own Catechism to refer to as a believer.

 

[shunyadragon]

Not all that many of the billion or so Catholics are nearly as legalistic as you are.
Just sayin'
Tom

Legalism is not an issue. It is teachings of the Roman Church specifically described in the Catechism

I just do not believe in the hypocrisy of juggling the books, to make them say something they do not for my own comfort and convenience.

The Roman Church does not stand on what not all nor most of the billions of Roman Church believers believe. People can believe in anything irrespective of the institution they 'claim' to belong to, and it has no influence on what the church states in the Catechism and teaches the faithful world wide.

 

[Twilight Hue]

On the opposite side, it's not unlikely that people living in Eastern parts of Roman Empire to have heard of the Buddha during Christ's time.

I'm not sure if that was likely given Roman trade with India began sometime during the early Common Era.

Roman trade with India - New World Encyclopedia

 

[shunyadragon]

I'm not sure if that was likely given Roman trade with India began sometime during the early Common Era.

Roman trade with India - New World Encyclopedia

Based on the finds of Buddhist coins, little statues, and records of ambassadors from Buddhist kingdoms. Buddhism was known in the region BCE.

 

[Spiderman]

Legalism is not an issue. It is teachings of the Roman Church specifically described in the Catechism

I just do not believe in the hypocrisy of juggling the books, to make them say something they do not for my own comfort and convenience.

The Roman Church does not stand on what not all nor most of the billions of Roman Church believers believe. People can believe in anything irrespective of the institution they 'claim' to belong to, and it has no influence on what the church states in the Catechism and teaches the faithful world wide.

Tell me, because you seem to be in agreement that there are souls who arent guaranteed hell who never heard about Jesus in their life, according to church teaching.

How could such a soul enter Heaven if there's no possibility of them being evangelized after death??

 

[shunyadragon]

Tell me, because you seem to be in agreement that there are souls who arent guaranteed hell who never heard about Jesus in their life, according to church teaching.

How could such a soul enter Heaven if there's no possibility of them being evangelized after death??

As defined by the doctrine of 'Universal Salvation' described in detail in your Catechism. Same is true for infants and children under the age of consent. Read your Catechism and it will provide you the details; restitutio in pristinum statum.

 

[lostwanderingsoul]

I prefer to believe what Jesus said, although most people who call themselves Christian never heard of it. Jesus is coming back to earth and all the dead will be resurrected. Everyone will have an equal chance to learn about Christ and accept His teachings. Those who do will receive eternal life. Those who do not will be destroyed , not burned forever.

 

[Spiderman]

As defined by the doctrine of 'Universal Salvation' described in detail in your Catechism. Same is true for infants and children under the age of consent. Read your Catechism and it will provide you the details; restitutio in pristinum statum.

Show me a direct quote from the catechism that rules out the possibility that I am promoting. It doesn't exist

 

[Jumi]

I'm not sure if that was likely given Roman trade with India began sometime during the early Common Era.

There were plenty of Buddhists in Persia and Persia was next to Rome with the two exchanging territory through wars. Also individuals from India came to Roman territory.

 

[Amani_Bhava]

Buddha never heard about Jesus. He left his palace to live in poverty, meditation, fasting, self-discipline, and seeking knowledge, understanding and truth. He sat beneath the Bodhi Tree defiantly determined to receive understanding and vowed that he would let his flesh and bones waste away and welcome that and death but not leave that spot until he found enlightenment. He did the best with what he had.

Buddha preached non-violence, gentleness, charity, self-discipline, detachment from possessions, detachment from materialism, and worldliness, humility, meekness and many of the virtues that Jesus preached. But he didn't accept Christ because he had never heard of the man, and wasn't a Jew, so didn't know about the God of Abraham. You seriously think he went to Hell??

Jesus said

• Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

• Blessed are the meek: for they shall possess the land.

• Blessed are they who mourn: for they shall be comforted.

• Blessed are they that hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall have their fill.

• Blessed are the merciful: for they shall obtain mercy.

• Blessed are the clean of heart: for they shall see God.

• Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God.

Buddha was poor in spirit, meek, he hungered and thirsted for righteousness, he was merciful, clean of heart, and a peacemaker. You seriously think he went to hell? What kind of God would be that cruel and unjust? So, if he didn't go to hell, that leaves only one option. He converted after death. If Buddha can convert after death, what makes you think Ghandi and so many other non-Christians can't?

Saint Faustina claims she was told by Jesus that at the moment when a spirit leaves the body, there is a final illumination and spiritual awakening and the soul is given understanding and then the free option to accept or reject Christ. She said there are people who die seemingly unrepentant and non-Christian, and to the naked eye it seems all is lost, but unknownst to us, the soul goes through a final illumination, complete enlightenment, and accepts Jesus as Lord and savior.

I am 100% convinced that if Buddha met Christ they would see eye to eye. Buddha preached a lot of what Christ preached with a different choice of words and extolled many of the same virtues. I have no doubt that Buddha is in Heaven, which only leaves one option, he had a full conversion after death. If Buddha can have a conversion after death, what makes you think others can't??

Buddha's death was his parinibbāna, the falling away of the physical body, and final release from endless cycle of birth and death called samsara. He had already attained Nibbana at age of 35. His physical body remained for 45 more years.

Buddha did not believe in soul. That is a direct contradiction of Christianity.

Heaven is just another place in Dharmic religions. It is not a goal for those who engage in Buddhist/Hindu/Jain practice. Going to heaven is more or less guaranteed for those who do good Kamma. But after their life in heaven ends they have to be born again.

Neither did Buddha go to hell, nor did Jesus attain Nibbana.

namaste

amani_bhava

 

[David T]

Not trying to disagree with you, but I think you have a few misconceptions about the teachings and the actual being of The Buddha.

Misconception? Never on RF.

Do you mean when i play a song on spotify that the artist literally isn't on the other end playing live? Why I have empirical proof indeed they are. It's measurable testable repeatable, it's completely scientific.

RANDOM.... in culture it's completely fundamental. To be honest most arguments here is whose random is correct. We actually even have scientific random vs religious random arguing..That's why I have retreated into music my guitar has more brains and self awareness. I use random in my twisted humor constantly. It's also why I hike a lot, there is zero random out in nature..unpredictable yes, beyond measurement yes, larger than the observer yes, random no, and not intellect as well. Artists create fiction, to show how facts are perceived. Erik stotik a local painter has painted random literally which is really an artists perception of normal folk in how they think!

So I understand people's misconceptions as random fingering, and random strumming occasionally accidentally striking a correct cord and a correct word and then cascading.back into random. Resonance vs dissonance. Mostly dissonance is normal. That's why dylan ran out of church with his hair on fire but loves the bible!!!

 

[BSM1]

Deja Vu, @David T

 

[BSM1]

Deja Vu, @David T

 

[David T]

Deja Vu, @David T

If I repeat it enough over and over then it's true!!!! Or at least that's what most think!!

 

[BSM1]

I believe you a

If I repeat it enough over and over then it's true!!!! Or at least that's what most think!!

I believe you already.

 

[columbus]

I am 100% convinced that if Buddha met Christ they would see eye to eye.

The fundamental premise of Judgement Day, that we humans will be judged based on our condition at the time of our death, strikes me as one of the most illogical things commonly taught by IslamoChristians. It just doesn't make any sense.
Of course, any sane human would recognize God (and worship/repent/whatever) once there's a way to know what the Truth is. How could anything we did or believed prior to that be an issue?
We are born as ignorant, fragile, and fearful little blobs of need. Some of us learn to do better than others, but none of us do all that well.

I am totally unable to believe the humans who assert that they know God well enough to cast aspersions on their fellow humans. I don't care what ancient book or prophet you have Faith in.
Tom

 

[Fool]

Buddha never heard about Jesus. He left his palace to live in poverty, meditation, fasting, self-discipline, and seeking knowledge, understanding and truth. He sat beneath the Bodhi Tree defiantly determined to receive understanding and vowed that he would let his flesh and bones waste away and welcome that and death but not leave that spot until he found enlightenment. He did the best with what he had.

Buddha preached non-violence, gentleness, charity, self-discipline, detachment from possessions, detachment from materialism, and worldliness, humility, meekness and many of the virtues that Jesus preached. But he didn't accept Christ because he had never heard of the man, and wasn't a Jew, so didn't know about the God of Abraham. You seriously think he went to Hell??

Jesus said

• Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

• Blessed are the meek: for they shall possess the land.

• Blessed are they who mourn: for they shall be comforted.

• Blessed are they that hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall have their fill.

• Blessed are the merciful: for they shall obtain mercy.

• Blessed are the clean of heart: for they shall see God.

• Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God.

Buddha was poor in spirit, meek, he hungered and thirsted for righteousness, he was merciful, clean of heart, and a peacemaker. You seriously think he went to hell? What kind of God would be that cruel and unjust? So, if he didn't go to hell, that leaves only one option. He converted after death. If Buddha can convert after death, what makes you think Ghandi and so many other non-Christians can't?

Saint Faustina claims she was told by Jesus that at the moment when a spirit leaves the body, there is a final illumination and spiritual awakening and the soul is given understanding and then the free option to accept or reject Christ. She said there are people who die seemingly unrepentant and non-Christian, and to the naked eye it seems all is lost, but unknownst to us, the soul goes through a final illumination, complete enlightenment, and accepts Jesus as Lord and savior.

I am 100% convinced that if Buddha met Christ they would see eye to eye. Buddha preached a lot of what Christ preached with a different choice of words and extolled many of the same virtues. I have no doubt that Buddha is in Heaven, which only leaves one option, he had a full conversion after death. If Buddha can have a conversion after death, what makes you think others can't??

unfortunately i disagree with St. Faustina because the myriad number of gospels speak of hell; including buddhism.

 

[Fool]

The fundamental premise of Judgement Day, that we humans will be judged based on our condition at the time of our death, strikes me as one of the most illogical things commonly taught by IslamoChristians. It just doesn't make any sense.
Of course, any sane human would recognize God (and worship/repent/whatever) once there's a way to know what the Truth is. How could anything we did or believed prior to that be an issue?
We are born as ignorant, fragile, and fearful little blobs of need. Some of us learn to do better than others, but none of us do all that well.

I am totally unable to believe the humans who assert that they know God well enough to cast aspersions on their fellow humans. I don't care what ancient book or prophet you have Faith in.
Tom

unfortunately most will be judged by their own conscience, or subjective rule of law. some can't judge objectively.