I don't think anyone can judge objectively. We are subjective creatures. We just aren't able to do differently.
Tom
-
Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.
Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:- Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
- Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
- Access to private conversations with other members.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!
Conversion after death
- Thread starter Spiderman
- Start date
Tom
Oh cool the laurel and hardy church!!! Wait already exists. Which BTW leads.me.to john prine in spite of ourselves!!!
TruePathFinder
Member
You said scripture is unreliable in your other post. Why are you now quoting scripture?Buddha never heard about Jesus. He left his palace to live in poverty, meditation, fasting, self-discipline, and seeking knowledge, understanding and truth. He sat beneath the Bodhi Tree defiantly determined to receive understanding and vowed that he would let his flesh and bones waste away and welcome that and death but not leave that spot until he found enlightenment. He did the best with what he had.
Buddha preached non-violence, gentleness, charity, self-discipline, detachment from possessions, detachment from materialism, and worldliness, humility, meekness and many of the virtues that Jesus preached. But he didn't accept Christ because he had never heard of the man, and wasn't a Jew, so didn't know about the God of Abraham. You seriously think he went to Hell??
Jesus said
- Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
- Blessed are the meek: for they shall possess the land.
- Blessed are they who mourn: for they shall be comforted.
- Blessed are they that hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall have their fill.
- Blessed are the merciful: for they shall obtain mercy.
- Blessed are the clean of heart: for they shall see God.
Buddha was poor in spirit, meek, he hungered and thirsted for righteousness, he was merciful, clean of heart, and a peacemaker. You seriously think he went to hell? What kind of God would be that cruel and unjust? So, if he didn't go to hell, that leaves only one option. He converted after death. If Buddha can convert after death, what makes you think Ghandi and so many other non-Christians can't?
- Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God.
Saint Faustina claims she was told by Jesus that at the moment when a spirit leaves the body, there is a final illumination and spiritual awakening and the soul is given understanding and then the free option to accept or reject Christ. She said there are people who die seemingly unrepentant and non-Christian, and to the naked eye it seems all is lost, but unknownst to us, the soul goes through a final illumination, complete enlightenment, and accepts Jesus as Lord and savior.
I am 100% convinced that if Buddha met Christ they would see eye to eye. Buddha preached a lot of what Christ preached with a different choice of words and extolled many of the same virtues. I have no doubt that Buddha is in Heaven, which only leaves one option, he had a full conversion after death. If Buddha can have a conversion after death, what makes you think others can't??
Spiderman
Veteran Member
Because I'm addressing Christians and telling them that the common view among Christians that all who did not know Jesus in this life went to hell, is preposterous!
TruePathFinder
Member
That a god can send anyone to eternal anguish is preposterous.
Spiderman
Veteran Member
I agree
sealchan
Well-Known Member
I agree.
I think that the author of the gospel of Matthew was familiar with the practices and perhaps stories of many foreign religions. Buddha's prior story of temptation by Mara, resulting enlightenment followed by teaching is basically mirrored in "Matthew's" narrative. The Beatitudes also strike me as somewhat like the Eight Fold path although certainly no simple copy. The Eightfold path is an affirmative set of psychological attitudes to promote as practices and the Beatitudes stands out as such amidst the other teachings in the gospels.
I've even speculated that the Sermon on the Mount (aka Buddha's Deer Park) includes an analogy that is a humorous dig at Buddhism...the odd analogy of "you are the light"...where it makes an odd image of putting a lamp under a bowl...I thought that maybe the Greco-Jewish author of Matthew was thinking about the "selfish" monastic Buddhist in his stupa worshipping...and apparently salt is also a common element of the Buddhist alter...
Put on your glasses and read your own book. It is extremely odd the you claim to a Christian, and a believer in the Roman Church, yet you expect me spoon fed you on the contents of your book.
cited the Catechism and Vatican when got thongs wrong. Enough is enough.
Spiderman
Veteran Member
As I expected, you can't quote the Catechism condemning my belief because it simply isn't there...The Catholic Church teaches that people who are invincibly ignorant of Jesus can still get to Heaven...That only leaves one option, the person would have to convert after death. Use some common sense.
TheBannerofHomuraAkemi
Active Member
Buddha never heard about Jesus. He left his palace to live in poverty, meditation, fasting, self-discipline, and seeking knowledge, understanding and truth. He sat beneath the Bodhi Tree defiantly determined to receive understanding and vowed that he would let his flesh and bones waste away and welcome that and death but not leave that spot until he found enlightenment. He did the best with what he had.
Buddha preached non-violence, gentleness, charity, self-discipline, detachment from possessions, detachment from materialism, and worldliness, humility, meekness and many of the virtues that Jesus preached. But he didn't accept Christ because he had never heard of the man, and wasn't a Jew, so didn't know about the God of Abraham. You seriously think he went to Hell??
Jesus said
- Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
- Blessed are the meek: for they shall possess the land.
- Blessed are they who mourn: for they shall be comforted.
- Blessed are they that hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall have their fill.
- Blessed are the merciful: for they shall obtain mercy.
- Blessed are the clean of heart: for they shall see God.
Buddha was poor in spirit, meek, he hungered and thirsted for righteousness, he was merciful, clean of heart, and a peacemaker. You seriously think he went to hell? What kind of God would be that cruel and unjust? So, if he didn't go to hell, that leaves only one option. He converted after death. If Buddha can convert after death, what makes you think Ghandi and so many other non-Christians can't?
- Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God.
Saint Faustina claims she was told by Jesus that at the moment when a spirit leaves the body, there is a final illumination and spiritual awakening and the soul is given understanding and then the free option to accept or reject Christ. She said there are people who die seemingly unrepentant and non-Christian, and to the naked eye it seems all is lost, but unknownst to us, the soul goes through a final illumination, complete enlightenment, and accepts Jesus as Lord and savior.
I am 100% convinced that if Buddha met Christ they would see eye to eye. Buddha preached a lot of what Christ preached with a different choice of words and extolled many of the same virtues. I have no doubt that Buddha is in Heaven, which only leaves one option, he had a full conversion after death. If Buddha can have a conversion after death, what makes you think others can't??
Oh Man if I could see the look on some Christian faces when they see Buddha in heaven. Oh man the irony.
dianaiad
Well-Known Member
I am forcibly reminded of one of the more popular 'Mormon memes" on the internet, where a Mormon is talking to a friend, who says that he'd just come from church, where they had a whole class on Mormonism. The Mormon smiled, and said 'by all means, tell me what I really believe!"
As I suspected you cannot or will not read. Use common reading skills, which apparently you lack or refuse to use.
Spiderman
Veteran Member
I find the Catechism to be a boring read.... could you at least tell me the chapter that condemns my belief and I will read it
What a conclusion. I would like to understand what conversion after death would be in case of Buddha, who was supposedly earlier in time than Jesus?
stvdv
Veteran Member
Sai Baba said "Start your spiritual journey of detachment early, because you never know when you are called; better be ready then"
Sai Baba said "All religions lead to God. If you don't believe in God but believe in your Self respecting creation is sufficient"
Even people who say they have been converted to Christianity need to do their sadhana. Just claiming "I accept Jesus, now I can lay on my back" won't fly. IMHO
The above makes sense, and feels good to me. So I believe ALL have a chance.
[I really love your post. Very creative, clear and beautiful. I love the Buddha picture. Thanks]
Last edited:
stvdv
Veteran Member
Agreed. And according to the Bible Jesus loved to spend His time in the temple and studying scriptures. Do not judge is key in Jesus' teaching.
Last edited:
PopeADope you are playing word games. It is not a matter of what the Roman Church condemns. It is a matter of what the Roman Church teaches and believes in their doctrine and dogma. I provided the Latin and English concerning what the Roman Church teaches concerning 'Universal Salvation' possible 'up to the moment of death.' I am not responsible for your foolish boredom, nor you refusal to read your own Catechism.
Again this is an ongoing problem of you being uncomfortable with what the Roman Church teaches and engaging in a self made hypocracy to describe Roman Church beliefs in terms of what you want the church to believe and not honestly understanding what the church actually teaches.
There are, of course, options like the Baha'i Faith and Unitarian Universalists that have beliefs more similar to what you believe.
whirlingmerc
Well-Known Member
Buddha never heard about Jesus. He left his palace to live in poverty, meditation, fasting, self-discipline, and seeking knowledge, understanding and truth. He sat beneath the Bodhi Tree defiantly determined to receive understanding and vowed that he would let his flesh and bones waste away and welcome that and death but not leave that spot until he found enlightenment. He did the best with what he had.
Buddha preached non-violence, gentleness, charity, self-discipline, detachment from possessions, detachment from materialism, and worldliness, humility, meekness and many of the virtues that Jesus preached. But he didn't accept Christ because he had never heard of the man, and wasn't a Jew, so didn't know about the God of Abraham. You seriously think he went to Hell??
Jesus said
- Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
- Blessed are the meek: for they shall possess the land.
- Blessed are they who mourn: for they shall be comforted.
- Blessed are they that hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall have their fill.
- Blessed are the merciful: for they shall obtain mercy.
- Blessed are the clean of heart: for they shall see God.
Buddha was poor in spirit, meek, he hungered and thirsted for righteousness, he was merciful, clean of heart, and a peacemaker. You seriously think he went to hell? What kind of God would be that cruel and unjust? So, if he didn't go to hell, that leaves only one option. He converted after death. If Buddha can convert after death, what makes you think Ghandi and so many other non-Christians can't?
- Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God.
Saint Faustina claims she was told by Jesus that at the moment when a spirit leaves the body, there is a final illumination and spiritual awakening and the soul is given understanding and then the free option to accept or reject Christ. She said there are people who die seemingly unrepentant and non-Christian, and to the naked eye it seems all is lost, but unknownst to us, the soul goes through a final illumination, complete enlightenment, and accepts Jesus as Lord and savior.
I am 100% convinced that if Buddha met Christ they would see eye to eye. Buddha preached a lot of what Christ preached with a different choice of words and extolled many of the same virtues. I have no doubt that Buddha is in Heaven, which only leaves one option, he had a full conversion after death. If Buddha can have a conversion after death, what makes you think others can't??
Someone poor in spirit would recognize a deep need for a redeemer, they would mourn for their sin and come to God through Christ.
I think Buddha would agree on some level with Christ but as far as Jesus chief goal of bringing glory to the father they would diverge.
On some levels similar but on some deeper levels very different.
Would Buddha agree as Romans says the world was made 'for Christ' ? Doubtful
Spiderman
Veteran Member
Nothing I stated is ruled out by church teaching.
The Church teaches that a person who is invincibly ignorant of Christ all their life can still get to heaven. That only leaves one option, a final illumination and conversion after death.
You on the other hand are asking me to go on a wild goose chase through thick book about every dogma of the church, and you're not even telling me which section to read, because the verses you seek don't exist.
If you are going to correct a Catholic about the teachings of their Church, the least you could do is tell them which section of the book it's in or quote the verse.
But I already know enough of Church teaching to know you are mistaken.
It isn't that I don't like to read, but there are much better things I would want to do with my time then read a catechism from front to back in search of verses that I know don't exist
If you cannot read the 'thick' adult version given the specific doctrine there are simplified Reader's Digest simplified versions for children with drawing to color.
The doctrine of 'Universal Salvation' defines the potential of Salvation as up to the 'moment of death.'
There remains a persistent problem, as an adult believer you should be intimately familiar with the Catechism, and the beliefs and doctrines of the Roman Church. I was raised in the Roman Church, and before Confirmation I had been through the Catechism twice.
Absolutely and shamefully false. You simply have to read the sections on 'Universal Salvation' and I gave you the Latin'
PopeADope you are playing word games. It is not a matter of what the Roman Church condemns. It is a matter of what the Roman Church teaches and believes in their doctrine and dogma. I provided the Latin and English concerning what the Roman Church teaches concerning 'Universal Salvation' possible 'up to the moment of death.' I am not responsible for your foolish boredom, nor you refusal to read your own Catechism.
Again this is an ongoing problem of you being uncomfortable with what the Roman Church teaches and engaging in a self made hypocracy to describe Roman Church beliefs in terms of what you want the church to believe and not honestly understanding what the church actually teaches.
There are, of course, options like the Baha'i Faith and Unitarian Universalists that have beliefs more similar to what you believe.
Last edited: