Convince me that God is loving

[Trailblazer]

And the believers won't stand for that, will they?

I am a believer and I will stand for it. God loves everyone, not only believers.

 

[Trailblazer]

Apart from that, if God's purported "love" is to be measured and perceived through His Creation, such as the Earth and the mechanisms of nature by which all known life operates, then I would say the only thing we can assume about that which created this place is more "indifference" than any indication of "love." Nature in the raw is pretty harsh and unforgiving, so there is no love in any of that - even if it does provide some nice scenery from time to time. So, maybe God doesn't care either way. If we're talking about someone who's been presiding over an entire universe for billions and billions of years, then God has probably seen and heard just about everything by now. Nothing fazes Him anymore. He's probably gone numb.

That God is loving is a faith-based belief. When you start to apply reason to that belief it ends up in the dog house, given all the suffering in this world. I am not saying that God causes all the suffering, but clearly God is responsible for any suffering that is not a free will choice, because that suffering is our fate, and God determines our fate. God is also responsible for creating a world in which He knew suffering would exist, and that is the main reason why it is difficult for me to believe that God is loving.

 

[Stevicus]

That God is loving is a faith-based belief. When you start to apply reason to that belief it ends up in the dog house, given all the suffering in this world. I am not saying that God causes all the suffering, but clearly God is responsible for any suffering that is not a free will choice, because that suffering is our fate, and God determines our fate. God is also responsible for creating a world in which He knew suffering would exist, and that is the main reason why it is difficult for me to believe that God is loving.

I share that same difficulty in belief, at least as far as God being loving, or even that God exists at all. As far as I can tell, the only reason why love has any meaning at all in our lives is because we humans made it so. Looking back to what humans were 100,000 or maybe 200,000 years ago, before we could make fire or tools - most likely living like packs of wild animals, where life was short and cruel. This is the world that God gave to humans, and everything that we learned to do, we had to figure out for ourselves, including language and the higher concepts we commonly associate with love. These are things that humans invented. Humans even invented God.

On the other hand, I've heard some say that humans are meant to suffer in this life and find eternal happiness in the next life. That doesn't really give much consolation to those who are suffering, but it might explain why God may be indifferent to it all. God might be thinking "Oh well, in 10,000 years, we'll all sit back and laugh about this."

 

[Trailblazer]

This is the world that God gave to humans, and everything that we learned to do, we had to figure out for ourselves, including language and the higher concepts we commonly associate with love. These are things that humans invented. Humans even invented God.

Yes, the way I see it is that humans have always figured everything out, including language and the higher concepts we commonly associate with love, not to mention humans helping other humans through charities and law enforcement, etc., so it is humans who deserve the credit for being loving. I do not believe that humans invented God but humans are the ones who decided to believe that God is loving, based solely upon scriptures.

On the other hand, I've heard some say that humans are meant to suffer in this life and find eternal happiness in the next life. That doesn't really give much consolation to those who are suffering

My fellow Baha'is always say that and I hate it when they say that, because it is so insensitive. Just wait till their spouse of 37 years dies and leaves them all alone. Then they can talk about how we are meant to suffer.

I am sure you know the saying about walking a mile on my moccasins. I don't think anyone would want to walk two feet in my moccasins.

 

[TLK Valentine]

I am a believer and I will stand for it. God loves everyone, not only believers.

Glad to hear it. But the problem is that religion, as a sociopolitical institution, will not.

Far too many "believers" treat their faith transactionally -- God's love and all the benefits that go with it are to be doled out only to those who hold the "correct" beliefs, say the "correct" things, and convert the most "others" to do likewise... by any means necessary. If it turned out that God really did love people who didn't do those things, then what's the point of going through the motions?

Personally, I think the whole system is nonsense, but the people who believe this stuff are in places of power... and they are always seeking more... AMDG, of course.

 

[Hockeycowboy]

And yes slaves seem to have been taken and this was probably better all round than killing them or setting up big prison system.

This is a good point! I was going to say this — because death was really the only alternative — but found your statement.
Good job.

I was also thinking about the culture archeologists have found in Canaanite society. They offered up their own children! And had temple prostitutes for their fertility gods. Really depraved.

But you never hear that side from the skeptics.

 

[timothy1027]

I can feel it in EVERY MOLECULE of my being!

rev. 1

 

[ppp]

I can feel it in EVERY FIBER of my being!

what about the parts of your being that are not fibers?

 

[Trailblazer]

I can feel it in EVERY FIBER of my being!

Feel what?

 

[Revelation 21:4]

I am a believer and I will stand for it. God loves everyone, not only believers.

Hello Trailblazer! Hope your day is going well.


Do you really believe that God loves everyone, though? God did kill people in the past. Psalm 11:5 specifically says that God “hates anyone who loves violence.” Notice in this instance, it says God hates the person doing it, not just the behavior.

 

[Trailblazer]

Hello Trailblazer! Hope your day is going well.

Thanks. It is going about as well as can be expected. I had the day off so I got a few things done around the house.

Do you really believe that God loves everyone, though? God did kill people in the past. Psalm 11:5 specifically says that God “hates anyone who loves violence.” Notice in this instance, it says God hates the person doing it, not just the behavior.

I do not go by the Old Testament since I believe it has serious problems, not the least of which is anthropomorphizing God.

Psalm 11:5​

NIRV​

The Lord watches over those who do what is right. But he really hates sinful people and those who love to hurt others.​

NIV​

The Lord examines the righteous, but the wicked, those who love violence, he hates with a passion.​

​

God might hate the behaviors of some people but didn't Jesus say to love the sinner but hate the sin?

The Baha'i Faith teaches that God loves everyone, as Jesus also taught, but that doesn't mean that God approves of everyone's behaviors.
Look at how similar the following are.

Matthew 5:45 That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.​

​

"How ignorant therefore the thought that God who created man, educated and nurtured him, surrounded him with all blessings, made the sun and all phenomenal existence for his benefit, bestowed upon him tenderness and kindness, and then did not love him. This is palpable ignorance, for no matter to what religion a man belongs even though he be an atheist or materialist nevertheless God nurtures him, bestows His kindness and sheds upon him His light."​

​

('Abdu'l-Baha, Star of the West, Vol. 8, issue 7, p. 78)​

 

[Trailblazer]

Hello Trailblazer! Hope your day is going well.


Do you really believe that God loves everyone, though? God did kill people in the past. Psalm 11:5 specifically says that God “hates anyone who loves violence.” Notice in this instance, it says God hates the person doing it, not just the behavior.

Convince me that God is loving

And the believers won't stand for that, will they? I am a believer and I will stand for it. God loves everyone, not only believers.

www.religiousforums.com

 

[timothy1027]

what about the parts of your being that are not fibers?

refer to "rev. 1"

 

[timothy1027]

Feel what?

"that God is loving"​

 

[YoursTrue]

Thanks. It is going about as well as can be expected. I had the day off so I got a few things done around the house.

I do not go by the Old Testament since I believe it has serious problems, not the least of which is anthropomorphizing God.

Psalm 11:5​

NIRV​

The Lord watches over those who do what is right. But he really hates sinful people and those who love to hurt others.​

NIV​

The Lord examines the righteous, but the wicked, those who love violence, he hates with a passion.​

​

God might hate the behaviors of some people but didn't Jesus say to love the sinner but hate the sin?

The Baha'i Faith teaches that God loves everyone, as Jesus also taught, but that doesn't mean that God approves of everyone's behaviors.
Look at how similar the following are.

Matthew 5:45 That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.​

​

"How ignorant therefore the thought that God who created man, educated and nurtured him, surrounded him with all blessings, made the sun and all phenomenal existence for his benefit, bestowed upon him tenderness and kindness, and then did not love him. This is palpable ignorance, for no matter to what religion a man belongs even though he be an atheist or materialist nevertheless God nurtures him, bestows His kindness and sheds upon him His light."​

​

('Abdu'l-Baha, Star of the West, Vol. 8, issue 7, p. 78)​

Ok but in the Bible, it clearly shows Jesus speaking of the incident of God destroying Sodom and Gomorrah. And then he said a destruction would happen again. Luke 17:30 shoes that he compared the destruction to when he would be revealed. You might want to look up the chapter, not long.

 

[Brickjectivity]

Convince me that God is loving without referring to scriptures that say that.

Tell me why I should believe that God is loving.

I cannot believe God is loving since it makes no sense to me that there would be so much suffering in the world if God was loving. I am referring to suffering that cannot be tied any free will decision of the person who suffers.

I do not want to hear any religious apologetics about how suffering is for our own good. We all know that there is a lot of gratuitous suffering in the world, suffering that serves no purpose.

A person who loves someone does things to show that they love that person, and they make sacrifices for the other person. If a man tells me he loves me but does nothing to show it, why would I believe him?

What does God do to show He loves us? What sacrifices does God make?

I see no evidence that God is loving, so I have to write that off as a faith-based belief.

P.S. Whether we should love God or not is another discussion. In principle, I think we should love God and other people without expectation of getting anything in return. I do not need God’s love in order to love God. I do not need love from anyone in order to love that person because I consider that selfish.

Christians and Baha’s believe that God is loving, and I think there is a reason for that, other than what their scriptures say. Imo, they have to believe God is loving because they need to feel loved by God in order to love God. I have no idea why since I do not need God’s love in order to love God. The reason I want to know if God is loving is because I am tired of religious people saying that God is loving with nothing but scriptures to back that up.

There is also a different approach: that the god of this world is not loving and must be replaced or is being replaced (as in erased). Various people have had this kind of approach.

 

[ppp]

refer to "rev. 1"

Every one? Suppose you just ate a piece of fruit? And can you feel it fruit molecues immediately? Can you feel it in the fecal molecues? What about the atoms that are not part of molecules? Can you feel it in the Argon? Or neutrinos and other free subatomic particles?

I suppose that you can feel it in the photons; but only while you are looking at the trees.



I think I need some more whiskey.

 

[Trailblazer]

"that God is loving"​

You can feel that God is loving in EVERY MOLECULE of your being?

 

[Trailblazer]

I think I need some more whiskey.

I think I need to go out for a walk.

 

[Trailblazer]

There is also a different approach: that the god of this world is not loving and must be replaced or is being replaced (as in erased). Various people have had this kind of approach.

I know that some people believe that but it doesn't make sense to me, although it also does not make sense that God is loving, as I explained in my OP.