Cops catch 'em, Courts jail 'em Obama turns 'em loose!

[jeager106]

This might be the most ignorant thing I've ever read. Addiction is a disease, just like alcoholism. Crack a book.

THANK YOU FOR THAT.

 

[jeager106]

My dis-ease didn't leave me without complications however.
Pancreas damage may have contributed to my diabetes.
Now if I drink I die.
Drink = dead.
I get that.
Still my sick mind might convince me "a little won't hurt" and I might
test that. Then I'll die.

 

[Father Heathen]

We need to do away with victimless crimes. Addicts need treatment, not punishment.

 

[Father Heathen]

I used to believe that drug use should be legalized but after hearing an argument from Ann Coulter of all folks, I agree on her points. Some people can use drugs responsibly. I'm one of those folks. Others that get addicted and become destructive... Well, who ends up paying for their salvation and have to repair the damage done? I and other responsible citizens? Nope, not me. I'll vote for legal drug use as long as folks pay for their own recovery and damage if the worst happens.

So you support banning tobacco, alcohol, and caffeine, right?

 

[Sees]

Legalizing, with an individual's insurance or charities covering any treatment needed, is OK with me.

 

[Scott C.]

This is a good thing. It does no good to lock up drug addicts. That's just a fact. They need treatment, not prison. So there's no thing to logically object to here.

My brother died of a prescription overdose at 37. His 12 year old son started growing pot in the backyard and found himself in the juvenile justice system. He remained in the system for the next 20 years. He has about 10 felony convictions. Every conviction is prescription drug related, except the pot as a kid. He's committed no theft and no violence. He's forged prescriptions and done other things to get his meds illegally. He's been to prison for this. Granted, they put him in a drug rehab wing of the prison. Also granted, the system has put him through numerous drug programs. But now that he's out of the system finally, and trying to make a go of life, he has no real life skills. He has to get advise from my dad on how to do basic things in life that we take for granted. He is drug free. Is there a chance he could revert to his addiction? Sure.

He can't get a descent job with a record of 10 or so felony convictions. I'm told the same crimes are misdemeanors is other states. He moved to California where he found he could not be a plumber because the state would not issue him a license to enter homes, because of the felonies. The system is working against him. He's always been a soft spoken and kind person. He has no disposition to harm anyone. The system is broken.

 

[YmirGF]

I just feel drug addicts are human refuse. We need to spend our time making things better for the people who make life better instead of devoting time to the pity party. I don't feel that users and abusers are the same people either. They choose to become losers by continuing to engaging in activities that they know are going to make them worthless. I have no sympathy whatsoever, unless the drug was forced upon them against their will.

Screw jail, screw treatment, just ignore them. They're ignoring everyone else, the selfish little gits.

I tend to agree. I really don't give a damn about junkies and crack heads, however, at the same time, I do recognize that paying for extended stays in our prison systems isn't the wisest use of our tax dollars. Though I was against it for many years, I turned my thinking around about the "Safe Injection Site" in Vancouver, BC. We need to get people who think living a life at the end of a crack pipe or on the end of a syringe the help they so desperately need. I am now more inclined to see this as a mental health issue, as who, in their right mind, would do such a thing to themselves? Since they are high, out of their minds, it's not a big leap to understand that they aren't in their right minds to begin with.

Finally, after about a decade now, other cities are taking a serious look at Insite as a model to combat this most terrible of terrible life choices.

 

[freethinker44]

TREATMENT COSTS A LOT MORE THAN JAIL!

Post some info that dug rehab costs less than jail per day?

When we average only the facilities with on-site detox (26 out of 32), the average price is $27,399.

^^ for 28 days.

The fee to cover the average cost of incarceration for Federal inmates in Fiscal Year 2013 was $29,291.25 ($80.25 per day).

Cost of a 28 day rehab is about $357 bucks per DAY.

Rehab costs a lot more than jail but rehab is usually only 28 days.

I got out of rehab months ago and am doing well but consider I am in A.A.
meetings at least 5 evenings a week.
I never did drugs. Alcohol.
Untreated alcohol withdrawal kills 25% of those suffering.
Heroin withdrawal kills no one. They just think they are going to die.
I was in intensive care for 5 days. Damn near killed me.
Average inpatient intensive care is 2 to 3 days.
I was really sick.
I have very good insurance but must co pay per month.
It's worth it.

Taken in total rehab is cheaper than prison.
The average prison time for drug offenses is almost 5 years with 77% rearrest rate.
The relapse rate for rehab is about 40%.

 

[leibowde84]

THANK YOU FOR THAT.

Sorry I included your comment in that. I didn't mean to. But, ignorance about the disease of addiction is infuriating. I'm an alcoholic in recovery as well, btw. Stay strong.

 

[Milton Platt]

http://www.aol.com/article/2016/08/03/obama-commutes-prison-sentences-of-214-drug-offenders/21444491/?icid=maing-grid7|main5|dl1|sec1_lnk3&pLid=668505010_htmlws-main-bb

A free get out of jail card thanks to Obama.

Short article even shorter on information. I'm pretty sure he reviewed the facts of the cases. Have you?

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Wow, there is some really disgusting inhumanity in this thread. Drug addiction, including alcohol, are diseases. The people who suffer from them are ill. How dare someone think they're better just because they don't happen to suffer from those specific afflictions. Are people only deserving to live based on much of a good worker drone they can be? Should everyone else just be thrown to the curb? Sound like an argument for eugenics. If so, people who think like that can go **** themselves. Usually the people who support that kind of **** should actually be the first in line for euthanasia in a eugenics program.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

For many reasons, we need small non-violent drug offenders out of jail. And, if need be, we need them to go to rehab to get the help they need, and we need to move beyond the fantasy that throwing them in jail will help them and solve anything. As a citizen, it's a win because it frees up time for cops to pursue "real" criminals, and as a tax payer it's a win because less resources are going into catching people who have broken no other laws than possession and it's less resources being spent on keeping people in jail who just shouldn't otherwise be in there.

Someone please explain to me what a non violent drug offender is?

Someone who gets arrested and their only crime being possession of pot is a pretty good and classic example.

When you distribute a substance that you know is poison to another person that is a violent act.

I doubt they ever define it that way, because so many things, such as alcohol, are excellent for your health in moderation but very destructive when abused, and we would also have to adjust to our laws to catch all the crap that goes into our foods, which is wrecking public health at a far greater rate than drugs.

What about dealers that prey on others?????

Legalizing and regulating takes care of them.

 

[Twilight Hue]

The key is non violent offenders. Bear in mind if they ever hurt or harm people outside themselves.

Throw away the key.....

 

[Shadow Wolf]

The key is non violent offenders. Bear in mind if they ever hurt or harm people outside themselves.

Most people are in for pot, and huge chunk of them, especially the ones in actual jail (not prison), did nothing but get caught with the drug. But even a number of dealers aren't breaking any laws except possession and dealing, and they deal to make gas, cigarette, and a bit of spending money and helping with covering the bills. But, even those that did do harm while in the depths of their addiction (going to jail and/or prison), that is what rehab and being supportive towards them is about, and a part of their healing process is to make amends for the harm they did. Jail or prison is not the place to be dealing with such demons, and if anything it really does seem to set them up for going through the addiction cycle again.

 

[Mindmaster]

I tend to agree. I really don't give a damn about junkies and crack heads, however, at the same time, I do recognize that paying for extended stays in our prison systems isn't the wisest use of our tax dollars. Though I was against it for many years, I turned my thinking around about the "Safe Injection Site" in Vancouver, BC. We need to get people who think living a life at the end of a crack pipe or on the end of a syringe the help they so desperately need. I am now more inclined to see this as a mental health issue, as who, in their right mind, would do such a thing to themselves? Since they are high, out of their minds, it's not a big leap to understand that they aren't in their right minds to begin with.

Finally, after about a decade now, other cities are taking a serious look at Insite as a model to combat this most terrible of terrible life choices.

Ultimately, you can't stop stupid. Am I happy they are making themselves worthless? No...

I just think all the money spent jailing them, enforcing, and treating them could be spent on the good people that aren't involved. I mean, take all the money we spend on and use the rest for putting good kids through college or adding something useful to the community. If you build rehab clinics everywhere you just get a community full of junkies on methadone.

 

[Mindmaster]

My brother died of a prescription overdose at 37. His 12 year old son started growing pot in the backyard and found himself in the juvenile justice system. He remained in the system for the next 20 years. He has about 10 felony convictions. Every conviction is prescription drug related, except the pot as a kid. He's committed no theft and no violence. He's forged prescriptions and done other things to get his meds illegally. He's been to prison for this. Granted, they put him in a drug rehab wing of the prison. Also granted, the system has put him through numerous drug programs. But now that he's out of the system finally, and trying to make a go of life, he has no real life skills. He has to get advise from my dad on how to do basic things in life that we take for granted. He is drug free. Is there a chance he could revert to his addiction? Sure.

He can't get a descent job with a record of 10 or so felony convictions. I'm told the same crimes are misdemeanors is other states. He moved to California where he found he could not be a plumber because the state would not issue him a license to enter homes, because of the felonies. The system is working against him. He's always been a soft spoken and kind person. He has no disposition to harm anyone. The system is broken.

As terrible as it may sound, the system isn't broken he is. Your criminal record is like evidence of your untrustworthiness, and if you've got one like that of course no one is going to hire you. He picked his choices -- the first time he screwed up he was a juvi and told he was wrong, and he decided, "oh well, I'm doing it again." I mean, I'm not trying to criticize but I think it's pretty arrogant to blame the local government or anyone else for his failings. We all screw up, but it is our faults not someone else's.

I have no idea what this modern pity party thing is -- if you screw up and break the law (whatever that law is) you are going to get about one warning. After that, you know what you are doing and you have absolutely no right to complain.

 

[psychoslice]

This is a good thing. It does no good to lock up drug addicts. That's just a fact. They need treatment, not prison. So there's nothing to logically object to here.

I do agree in some way with that, but many drug addicts just get out of jail and do the same thing over and over, most don't want rehabilitation, they just keep stealing or whatever else to be able to buy their drugs, so I agree, but sadly its much more complicated than that.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

I do agree in some way with that, but many drug addicts just get out of jail and do the same thing over and over, most don't want rehabilitation, they just keep stealing or whatever else to be able to buy their drugs, so I agree, but sadly its much more complicated than that.

There will always be people who don't want help or can't be helped, but I don't think that's true for most.

 

[Mindmaster]

]
Decriminalizing drugs like cocaine and heroine WILL lower the number of
users in jail. But will that stop illegal hard drug use?
I kinda doubt that.

Nah, it'll be more common but we won't waste our time fawning over another special class of idgets.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

I do agree in some way with that, but many drug addicts just get out of jail and do the same thing over and over, most don't want rehabilitation, they just keep stealing or whatever else to be able to buy their drugs, so I agree, but sadly its much more complicated than that.

If they are truly that bad then I do not see how they can be of sound mind enough to decide if they go or not, because it's usually not the "actual person" doing the talking.