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Cops Love To Bully & Assault Civilians

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
I do not see police as the bad guys, calling me a bot is....
...a joke.
I used irony.
Too subtle?
about as stupid as hating the police for the actions of a few.
A few do the worst things.
Many more do bad things.
And most know, but look the other way.
This makes most bad, even if they aren't most of the time.
Like the mafia, even button men are only bad on the
few occasions they send someone to sleep with the fishies.
The murders are far & few between.
 

Bthoth

Well-Known Member
...a joke.
I used irony.
Too subtle?

A few do the worst things.
Many more do bad things.
And most know, but look the other way.
This makes most bad, even if they aren't most of the time.
Like the mafia, even button men are only bad on the
few occasions they send someone to sleep with the fishies.
The murders are far & few between.
But their target audience have no rules, morals or care for human life.

The police work between us and the complete unruly. If and when you ever have to experience the true monster, you will appreciate police.

In war, many of our own children/soldiers become monsters. The business of police is harsh but like I said, if you ever become a victim, each will appreciate having people just as capable.
 

Heyo

Veteran Member
hating the police for the actions of a few
You still don't get it.
All those reports @Revoltingest is posting and others supporting with additional info like @Shadow Wolf with the training material is to make clear that the "bad apple" narrative is bonkers. Police misconduct isn't the exception but systemic. From recruiting over training to oversight and regulatory action, every step favours the "bad apples".
It's not the individual cop (who may or may be not a morally acting person) but the system.
Would it be a good policy to not employ cops who failed on their job in another district?
Would it be a good policy to change the training of cops to servants and protectors instead of "warriors"?
Would it be a good policy to have an independent agency to monitor cop actions and not rely on cops to "snitch" on their own?
Would it be a good policy to hold cops responsible for their actions so that the "bad apples" don't spoil the reputation of the office?

Debate me on any question you answered with "no".
 

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
The police work between us and the complete unruly.
Where? I've been around the sun a few dozen times and I've never needed the popo. Yes, is crime and such, but America is not on the brink of anarchy and chaos with the police being the difference between that and order.
If and when you ever have to experience the true monster, you will appreciate police.
I've been attacked before. I wasn't really scared until the police show up, because they can do things that rural, small town hoodlums can't. And they showed up several minuyltes after my friends and I fought off the attack and were heading to a friend's house. We were high on victory, and then the pigs show up and a couple of my friends wound up on the ground and searched (they had a record).
I'm also autistic and the police scare me and terrify me more than anyone. I've been in some hellaciously stressful situations, including being put in a cruiser, because they thought my flat affect and monotonous voice and "unusual" vocal pattern meant I was intoxicated.
The business of police is harsh but like I said, if you ever become a victim, each will appreciate having people just as capable.
I don't. In my personal life the police have been nothing more than a burden, stressor, and gnarly pain in the ***, like that time I was pulled over for my legal underbody lights.
 

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
You still don't get it.
All those reports @Revoltingest is posting and others supporting with additional info like @Shadow Wolf with the training material is to make clear that the "bad apple" narrative is bonkers. Police misconduct isn't the exception but systemic. From recruiting over training to oversight and regulatory action, every step favours the "bad apples".
It's not the individual cop (who may or may be not a morally acting person) but the system.
Would it be a good policy to not employ cops who failed on their job in another district?
Would it be a good policy to change the training of cops to servants and protectors instead of "warriors"?
Would it be a good policy to have an independent agency to monitor cop actions and not rely on cops to "snitch" on their own?
Would it be a good policy to hold cops responsible for their actions so that the "bad apples" don't spoil the reputation of the office?

Debate me on any question you answered with "no".
Doing some researc earlier I found this article. The course the author took is a major name in police training, is heavily cited 8n the training manual I have, and what the author of the article observed matches what's in my training manual. Amd the way it teaches police to fear people amd domimate a situation be willing to resort to violence amd kill is extremely problematic and impeding necessary reform.
Add in widespread public support for the police, support from politicians from all levels (including the Supreme Court, who fundamentally does not trust people to the point of paranoia if you read up on relevant cases) and especially qualified immunity and the America people are very screwed. So screwed even bird **** on yiur car or donut glaze in it can get you arrested as one of the many, many victims of the war on drugs.
 

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
You still don't get it.
All those reports @Revoltingest is posting and others supporting with additional info like @Shadow Wolf with the training material is to make clear that the "bad apple" narrative is bonkers. Police misconduct isn't the exception but systemic. From recruiting over training to oversight and regulatory action, every step favours the "bad apples".
It's not the individual cop (who may or may be not a morally acting person) but the system.
Would it be a good policy to not employ cops who failed on their job in another district?
Would it be a good policy to change the training of cops to servants and protectors instead of "warriors"?
Would it be a good policy to have an independent agency to monitor cop actions and not rely on cops to "snitch" on their own?
Would it be a good policy to hold cops responsible for their actions so that the "bad apples" don't spoil the reputation of the office?

Debate me on any question you answered with "no".
I forgot to link to the article.
 

Bthoth

Well-Known Member
You still don't get it.
All those reports @Revoltingest is posting and others supporting with additional info like @Shadow Wolf with the training material is to make clear that the "bad apple" narrative is bonkers. Police misconduct isn't the exception but systemic. From recruiting over training to oversight and regulatory action, every step favours the "bad apples".
What is systemic is the misconduct on either side.

If parents trained their children to do what is right, there would be no need of police
It's not the individual cop (who may or may be not a morally acting person) but the system.
If defending the free is wrong, then leave. Go to where you believe that you can be free and leave the system of 'we the people'. I am aware that 'invisible hand' is a rude model as business has no use of virtues. But the system of justice requires police to fight and contain the violent and ignorant from taking over and making lawlessness the rule of the land.
Would it be a good policy to not employ cops who failed on their job in another district?
Fire all police that break the law as they are as bad as preachers of faith taking advantage of children, just monsters.
Would it be a good policy to change the training of cops to servants and protectors instead of "warriors"?
Absolutely but when fighting monsters it often takes training of people to be just as ruthless. I will trust the police over street gangs and the mobs that will destroy a city for the errors of a few.
Would it be a good policy to have an independent agency to monitor cop actions and not rely on cops to "snitch" on their own?

Will you pay for it or join the police yourself to monitor the work force. Creating layers of expense is not the answer. Getting involved on your own accord or even teach your children to follow the laws and then become law enforcement, is far more substantial.
Would it be a good policy to hold cops responsible for their actions so that the "bad apples" don't spoil the reputation of the office?
Always!
Debate me on any question you answered with "no".
Were any of my questions a NO?
 

Bthoth

Well-Known Member
Where? I've been around the sun a few dozen times and I've never needed the popo. Yes, is crime and such, but America is not on the brink of anarchy and chaos with the police being the difference between that and order.

The police do better than ranting and defunding ideas. What have you contributed to help?
I've been attacked before. I wasn't really scared until the police show up, because they can do things that rural, small town hoodlums can't.
OK..... I've seen what a robber can do to a home and people. To the extent that the father wanted to shoot anyone with a blue rag.
And they showed up several minuyltes after my friends and I fought off the attack and were heading to a friend's house. We were high on victory, and then the pigs show up and a couple of my friends wound up on the ground and searched (they had a record).
The police have learned that in gang violence neither side is innocent. I've witnessed gang violence myself and watched people on both sides get stabbed, shot and have their heads bached in. It's usually when one is surrounded and the mob style assaults turn ugly.
I'm also autistic and the police scare me and terrify me more than anyone.
Is that the excuse, an autistic diagnosis. Did you ever consider that the people that surround you, are teaching you to rebel. I was raised that running from the police was a suicide especially if you committed a crime.
I've been in some hellaciously stressful situations, including being put in a cruiser,
No big deal. The stress was losing your freedom and then realizing you lose your right to just talk yourself out of the situation.
because they thought my flat affect and monotonous voice and "unusual" vocal pattern meant I was intoxicated.
And drunks frighten police officers, especially the ones that drive as they are usually the first to an accident where a family and children are torn apart from a drunk driver incident and they have to pull the pieces out.
I don't. In my personal life the police have been nothing more than a burden, stressor, and gnarly pain in the ***, like that time I was pulled over for my legal underbody lights.

So you had a low rider or a hot rod car and then appeared drunk or on drugs? Sure those are sometimes the guys on pcp and will pull a weapon out and try to shoot their way out of being pulled over.

Them guys see things every day that are worse than a war zone in iraq and then have to return to work and see it again. If there was a magic wand to end the cruelty and stupidity of everyday people, there would be no trauma that the men in blue have to see everyday.

Have pity and see how much easier it is to get a ticket. Take the lights off the car to avoid even being pulled over. Give up trying to look cool among friends. And be sure to teach your children that NO ONE is above the law and does not have a right to flight and flee even is mistakenly pulled over..
 

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
The police do better than ranting and defunding ideas. What have you contributed to help?

OK..... I've seen what a robber can do to a home and people. To the extent that the father wanted to shoot anyone with a blue rag.
So? I've still been attacked and the police was the absolute last thing I wanted to see.
The police have learned that in gang violence neither side is innocent. I've witnessed gang violence myself and watched people on both sides get stabbed, shot and have their heads bached in. It's usually when one is surrounded and the mob style assaults turn ugly.
No guns, no knives, just a group of hoodlums in small town, rural Indiana who jumped us.
Is that the excuse, an autistic diagnosis. Did you ever consider that the people that surround you, are teaching you to rebel. I was raised that running from the police was a suicide especially if you committed a crime.
No excuse, it's just a fact. The cops have a well established history of mistreating and killing those with mental illnesses at a very high rate, and I've had problems with the cops due to it.
No big deal. The stress was losing your freedom and then realizing you lose your right to just talk yourself out of the situation.
The stress was because I shouldn't have been in there.
And drunks frighten police officers, especially the ones that drive as they are usually the first to an accident where a family and children are torn apart from a drunk driver incident and they have to pull the pieces out.
Yeah. Except I didn't sound or smell drunk. I sounded autistic.
So you had a low rider or a hot rod car and then appeared drunk or on drugs? Sure those are sometimes the guys on pcp and will pull a weapon out and try to shoot their way out of being pulled over.
Nice way to throw out assumptions. No to all. I was actually working at the moment.
Them guys see things every day that are worse than a war zone in iraq and then have to return to work and see it again.
Bull****.
Have pity
No.
Take the lights off the car to avoid even being pulled over.
They're legal, so no. The cops really just need to learn the laws themselves if they're expected to enforce and uphold them.
Give up trying to look cool among friends.
Great way to throw out more erroneous assumptions.
And be sure to teach your children that NO ONE is above the law and does not have a right to flight and flee even is mistakenly pulled over..
The message I teach is never, never, never EVER trust the police and absolutely do not tell them anything more than is legally requires, and to stand up for their rights.
 

Heyo

Veteran Member
What is systemic is the misconduct on either side.

If parents trained their children to do what is right, there would be no need of police
If parent trained their children, there wouldn't be (so many) bad cops.
If defending the free is wrong, then leave. Go to where you believe that you can be free and leave the system of 'we the people'. I am aware that 'invisible hand' is a rude model as business has no use of virtues. But the system of justice requires police to fight and contain the violent and ignorant from taking over and making lawlessness the rule of the land.
Did I strike a nerve?
Btw, I am not in the US. Our police is beacon of virtue compared to yours. 3 years of training, they know the laws they enforce, misconduct is seriously punished and all of them together have fired fewer shots in a year than New York cops in a single incident.

But I still prefer to see them from behind.

Fire all police that break the law as they are as bad as preachers of faith taking advantage of children, just monsters.

Absolutely but when fighting monsters it often takes training of people to be just as ruthless. I will trust the police over street gangs and the mobs that will destroy a city for the errors of a few.


Will you pay for it or join the police yourself to monitor the work force. Creating layers of expense is not the answer. Getting involved on your own accord or even teach your children to follow the laws and then become law enforcement, is far more substantial.

Always!

Were any of my questions a NO?
#3 wasn't exactly a "yes" but we agree more than we disagree. Then why the opposition? We all want the same, a professional, well trained, reliable and responsible police force.
 

Bthoth

Well-Known Member
So? I've still been attacked and the police was the absolute last thing I wanted to see.

why, they enable consistency to uniform rules/laws by foundation.
No guns, no knives, just a group of hoodlums in small town, rural Indiana who jumped us.
so hoodlums did the nasty, the police were there to level the playing field.
No excuse, it's just a fact. The cops have a well established history of mistreating and killing those with mental illnesses at a very high rate, and I've had problems with the cops due to it.
The media and legal teams suggest the mistreating. The police cannot be experienced in all events, even if trained to try.

i would trust the police before expecting that they are trained psychiatrists.

The stress was because I shouldn't have been in there.
Perfect. Self imposed responsibility. Thank you!
Yeah. Except I didn't sound or smell drunk. I sounded autistic.
Many descriptions of the term.

You do not want to read the actual meaning.
Nice way to throw out assumptions. No to all. I was actually working at the moment.
Worked?
Bull****.
So no observance of their experience but yours is most important?
No.

They're legal, so no. The cops really just need to learn the laws themselves if they're expected to enforce and uphold them.
Sorry, they see criteria just as you hate the badge
Great way to throw out more erroneous assumptions.
Not an assumption, just rational
The message I teach is never, never, never EVER trust the police
That is the rude approach. Trust them over your own ideals. They are far better to observe as credible.
and absolutely do not tell them anything more than is legally requires, and to stand up for their rights.
Screw the legal angle as they impose lawyer ideals of how to circumvent personal responsibility. That't what lawyers do for a living. the police try to enable a equal footing for all of us based on basic common sense, not legal rubbish to get a criminal off.
 

Bthoth

Well-Known Member
If parent trained their children, there wouldn't be (so many) bad cops.
Agreed
Did I strike a nerve?
Sure , people that do not like US and the security of our police enforcement should leave.
Btw, I am not in the US. Our police is beacon of virtue compared to yours. 3 years of training, they know the laws they enforce, misconduct is seriously punished and all of them together have fired fewer shots in a year than New York cops in a single incident.
OK, the intercity cops see far more carnage than most.

Police are for the people, of the people, and protecting the people about naturally.
But I still prefer to see them from behind.
Sure, not one wants to be a suspect.
#3 wasn't exactly a "yes" but we agree more than we disagree. Then why the opposition? We all want the same, a professional, well trained, reliable and responsible police force.
Who is oppressing who?

Holding back our police from doing there job is rude.

I trust that police is for US and society
 

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
why, they enable consistency to uniform rules/laws by foundation.
No, they don't. They don't create nor enable law. They are to enforce it.
so hoodlums did the nasty, the police were there to level the playing field.
I already told you we fought them off long before the cops showed up. We beat them up and they ran away before the cops were even called.
The media and legal teams suggest the mistreating. The police cannot be experienced in all events, even if trained to try.
I am neither the media nor a legal team.
i would trust the police before expecting that they are trained psychiatrists.
They need to be trained in dealing with those who have mental illnesses and how to identify signs of potential mental illness. That doesn't mean they need to be trained psychologists, but it does mean police departments need more social workers.
No, I said I was working, as in out doing activities for a monetary income.
So no observance of their experience but yours is most important?
I live and work in those places they call warzones. They aren't seeing what goes on in one.
Sorry, they see criteria just as you hate the badge
That's not something you can really see unless I did something like putting a sticker on my car that says **** the police. But even if I did that's free speech and they are obligated to respect that.
Not an assumption, just rational
It is an assumption because I told you I was working. That isn't looking cool in front of friends.
That is the rude approach. Trust them over your own ideals. They are far better to observe as credible.
When they stop trying to cover up for ones like former cop Bissard (Indianapolis pig who was drunk on the job, driving amd killed a motorist) I'll reconsider my position. When internal investigations are outlawed I'll reconsider. When qualified immunity ends I'll reconsider. But until then, especially as long as they can lie to us, they are fundamentally untrustable.
Perfect. Self imposed responsibility. Thank you!
Nope. I didn't belong in a cruiser and didn't do anything to deserve it.

Many descriptions of the term.

You do not want to read the actual meaning.
What term and meaning? Drunk? Autistic? None of what you said there makes any sense.
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
Agreed

Sure , people that do not like US and the security of our police enforcement should leave.

OK, the intercity cops see far more carnage than most.

Police are for the people, of the people, and protecting the people about naturally.

Sure, not one wants to be a suspect.

Who is oppressing who?

Holding back our police from doing there job is rude.

I trust that police is for US and society
I get the strong impression that you favor
cops illegally violating civil rights of civilians
as shown in the linked articles & videos.
Is this so?
 

Heyo

Veteran Member
Holding back our police from doing there job is rude.

I trust that police is for US and society
After all the reports that @Revoltingest has posted, after becoming aware of their training, after knowing about qualified immunity and being against all that you still believe we want to "Hold[ing] back our police from doing there job"?
The opposite is the case. We want the police to be able to do their job and we want them to be able to do a good job.
Currently they are not able and as the evidence indicates they neither are willing.
 

Bthoth

Well-Known Member
After all the reports that @Revoltingest has posted, after becoming aware of their training, after knowing about qualified immunity and being against all that you still believe we want to "Hold[ing] back our police from doing there job"?
The opposite is the case. We want the police to be able to do their job and we want them to be able to do a good job.
Currently they are not able and as the evidence indicates they neither are willing.
Lots of reports from lots of perspectives. Huge country, many police departments.
Unless you have a cure to share, the rhetoric is just online chatting to me.


""We want the police to be able to do their job and we want them to be able to do a good job."""

That's my stance.
 

Bthoth

Well-Known Member
I get the strong impression that you favor
cops illegally violating civil rights of civilians
as shown in the linked articles & videos.
Is this so?
Lousy assumption.

In fact, rude to make such a claim.

Reminds me of israel defenders expecting affirmations or a person will get the anti-semitic label.

I considered you to be better than that.
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
Lousy assumption.
It's not an assumption.
It's an impression, which is more uncertain.
So I asked, rather than just assume.
In fact, rude to make such a claim.
I made no claim.
I asked if your views comported with
the impression I gleaned from your posts
that favor cops.
This is a very civil way to proceed.
Reminds me of israel defenders expecting affirmations or a person will get the anti-semitic label.
It seems that your strident (& rude)
objection is an answer, ie, no.
But this doesn't illuminate your views,
which still seem to blame the victims
of police abuse.
I considered you to be better than that.
That shows bad judgement.
I am the worst poster on RF.
 

Bthoth

Well-Known Member
It's not an assumption.
It's an impression, which is more uncertain.
So I asked, rather than just assume.

I made no claim.
I asked if your views comported with
the impression I gleaned from your posts
that favor cops.
This is a very civil way to proceed.

It seems that your strident (& rude)
objection is an answer, ie, no.
But this doesn't illuminate your views,
which still seem to blame the victims
of police abuse.

That shows bad judgement.
I am the worst poster on RF.
The police are the victims of your abuse and assumptions.

Direct the problem at the individual acts but condemning the police for the acts of a small minority is how prejudice works and should be condemned.
 
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