Father Heathen
Veteran Member
So kids who aren't disciplined grow up to be harsh disciplinarians?
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Corporal punishment in schools should be abolished
- Thread starter NickLiberty1776
- Start date
So kids who aren't disciplined grow up to be harsh disciplinarians?
Not always. I was spanked with a belt regularly, but I didn't spank my own children.
Geoff-Allen
Resident megalomaniac
I think it is just violence by a different name ... I am LONG out of school and I got physical punishment and it taught me nothing!
I guess I should've put some sort of emoticon on that - it was my attempt at humourously pointing out that when it comes to this issue, you're demonstrating the sort of entitlement that you complained about.
Back in the early 70's my school sent home a paper to parents. They had to sign it after checking a box concerning corporal punishment or I couldn't go to school. They could check No. Beneath was a list of the stuff they were taking responsibility for, and an agreement that the school could kick me out if the PARENTS didn't live up to the responsibilities they were agreeing to take on.
My dad always made a bit of a production out of signing Yes. "See here, Tom, if you don't behave the principal will smack your butt into next week. GET IT?
I was not a model child. My principal was always obviously embarrassed when he had to make good on the threat. I figured that power play out by middle school and I used it.
Tom
My dad always made a bit of a production out of signing Yes. "See here, Tom, if you don't behave the principal will smack your butt into next week. GET IT?
I was not a model child. My principal was always obviously embarrassed when he had to make good on the threat. I figured that power play out by middle school and I used it.
Tom
dust1n
Zindīq
This analogy would be more dishonest, as hitting a kid and putting them in time out is not comparable, and since being imprisoned and being put in time out is not comparable.
As for hitting adults, I only give firm but restained swats to bottoms.
dust1n
Zindīq
That's peculiar, because I was spanked, and I'm spoiled, ill mannered, and essentially no different than the whiny American generations that were my parents' and grandparents'.
Speaking as an ex-teacher, I think the issue is that people too often conflate 'discipline' and 'corporal punishment'. Take my points with a grain of salt...as well as being an ex-teacher, I was a psychology major, which might make my opinions suspect to some...(
)Couple of points to my mind;
1) Parents absolutely need to take responsibility for disciplining their kids. This requires a large investment of effort, and time, and needs to be a priority. Else don't have kids. My experience as a parent is that positive reinforcement is more effective long term than negative, but I do use negative reinforcement as well. Kids who are EFFECTIVELY disciplined at home, amazingly, cause little trouble at school.
Some parents don't have the required skills to do this, but it seems more common that they don't make the required effort on a consistent basis.
2) Where 1 doesn't occur, whatever the school does is going to be of limited effectiveness. Brats be brats, and a teacher occasionally spanking them is unlikely in the extreme to promote any sort of ongoing positive behavioural change.
3) What spanking may do is promote resentment in a way that other negative reinforcements may not do. I'd admit it's hard to be 100% certain on this. It's very unlikely that spanking is LESS harmful though.
4) Positive reinforcements are consistently shown to be the most effective means of modifying behaviour on a long term basis.
5) Here's the kicker. They take time. Changing one kid's behaviour out of a class of 20 is actually quite feasible, even without home support (as long as the home environment isn't completely destructive to this). However, how much time can/should a teacher invest in modifying one kid's behaviour, especially if the parents have failed in step 1?
psychoslice
Veteran Member
So you say, but I know through experience and simply observing that it is not working, bring back the cane.
I repeat, rubbish.
I'll put my first hand experience up against yours if you like, else we can go the theoretical route. Your choice.
psychoslice
Veteran Member
Well you might of been a thick head, but it probably worked on other kids, like you don't represent every child out there..
psychoslice
Veteran Member
I'm not here to argue, I'm just sharing my own observations, that's why I have a brain.
psychoslice
Veteran Member
Well, I can only talk about my country can't I ??.
psychoslice
Veteran Member
I don't care about the Montessori, I'm just saying what I have observed, wee need to think for ourselves instead of listening to all the so called do gooders.
Yeah, I taught at a school which ran Montessori programmes, although it was only a section of the school organised in that manner. Interesting.
I did find myself wondering how those students would cope when being re-integrated back into 'mainstream' schooling, at whatever point that occurred (secondary, and/or university).
Raising your observations and opinions in a general debate forum does generally make them open to being challenged though.
We live in the same country, and I think your summation of the issues in schools is completely over-simplistic. No way bringing back the cane fixes the very real issues with Australian schooling. Not even from a discipline point of view.
In my opinion.