Could Nothingness Be Another Dimension In And Of Itself?

[godnotgod]

One can develop a stillness of mind, sure, but talking about this as "Ultimate Reality" is nonsensical. All we can really discuss is what goes on in our own minds, the rest is pure speculation and mostly nonsense.

No, dear boy: What goes on in your mind is just so much mental popcorn, as someone here once described it. The mind itself is a self-created principle. It is an illusion. Once this is realized, one can make progress toward true Reality. The activities of the mind must undergo complete cessation first. Then there is no more personal 'small world' to be concerned about, is there?

What 'mind' is there that can be stilled? There is no such mind. There is only the stillness itself, and you are it.

 

[godnotgod]

I think the only thing that could be called an impersonal view is mathematics. The realization of mathematical proofs doesn't rely on perception or the physical senses. It's utterly abstract.

Still just nibbling around the edges of Reality, however. Descriptions, which mathematics are, are never the Reality they attempt to describe.

 

[AndromedaRXJ]

The reality is, 2+2=4. That's impersonal.

 

[godnotgod]

You're missing the point, I suspect deliberately. We can only ever experience our own small world which is limited by the range of our physical senses, as far as the eye can see. We can only ever experience a tiny fraction of what is "out there", the universe.

But it is not 'out there'. That is an error in judgement to think so, based on the erroneously conceived notion of separate observer and observed. Ultimate Reality is touched upon when one makes efforts to go beyond what the senses and even nature dictate.

Are you saying that you are not fully encapsulated by the entire Universe, and that the Universe does not permeate every cell, nay, every sub-atomic particle in your body, nay, IS every sub-atomic particle in your body? YOU ARE THE UNIVERSE PRETENDING NOT TO BE THE UNIVERSE, PRETENDING TO BE JUST 'LITTLE OLD ME' IN YOUR TEENY WEENY SMALL HINAYANIST STAGNANT BACKWATER WORLD.

 

[godnotgod]

So you view yourself as some latter-day prophet come to free humanity from the chains of it's conditioning? Maybe you see yourself as Neo in the Matrix?

Straw Dog was right, you really do need to get out more.

Look here, Erroneous Logic Man: The Plato Cave metaphor was just about a regular guy not looking for any trouble who happened to catch glimpse of the Sun none of his buddies had seen, and who naturally wanted to clue them in on what he had seen, OK?

 

[godnotgod]

A consciousness that is just another subjective view. Any impersonal view would be down right boring. You preach a philosophy for the dead. Why would I give a ****? I'm too busy being alive and animated.

You need to get out more.

You need to get IN more!

If the consciousness you are employing to discern that all views are the product of subjective experience is just another subjective view, then what you are saying cannot possibly be relied upon, and yet, you say what you say with confidence. Either you are lying through your teeth, or are saying it from an impersonal POV while not actually realizing it.

'I'm too busy being alive and animated' was what I overheard the fish swimming around in the sea said, while being completely oblivious of the very sea he swam in, but which sustained him without fanfare both inside and outside 24/7. He could care less about the sea. After all, there were predators at every turn to worry about, while at the same time succulent little gourmet tidbits that glistened hither and thither, captivating his conscious attention and eventually hypnotizing him. Where else do you think the expression 'You fish-eyed fool!' came from, anywhoo?

 

[godnotgod]

The reality is, 2+2=4. That's impersonal.

Numbers are just symbols for something else. They are not the actual reality they symbolize. This is a common human error, that we
mistake the description for the reality. Time is a good example, something we have come to think of as real, a measurement system we mistake for that which is being measured.

 

[Rick O'Shez]

Are you saying that you are not fully encapsulated by the entire Universe, and that the Universe does not permeate every cell, nay, every sub-atomic particle in your body

Such speculations are completely irrelevant to the question of what we can experience via our mind and senses, which is basically not very much. Come out of your rabbit hole and sniff the fresh air.

 

[Rick O'Shez]

Look here, Erroneous Logic Man: The Plato Cave metaphor was just about a regular guy not looking for any trouble who happened to catch glimpse of the Sun none of his buddies had seen, and who naturally wanted to clue them in on what he had seen, OK?

I get that, I am saying that is not what you are doing here. If you think you are then you are delusional.

 

[Rick O'Shez]

What 'mind' is there that can be stilled? There is no such mind. There is only the stillness itself, and you are it.

Tired Zen cliche. Random emission of nonsense.​

 

[godnotgod]

Such speculations are completely irrelevant to the question of what we can experience via our mind and senses, which is basically not very much. Come out of your rabbit hole and sniff the fresh air.

But how can you deny that the Universe is both completely around and inside of you? That cannot be contested. That you may not be aware of the fact is another issue. We call becoming aware of your universal consciousness 'expanding your consciousness'. You do not experience very much because your awareness is only of a certain capacity at the moment. Yesterday it perhaps was less expansive. Tomorrow, it may expand far beyond your current awareness. That is the nature of consciousness. More light, more awareness. Consciousness is the light beyond mind and sensory awareness. Mind and senses keep you enslaved in the 'small little world' you have built for yourself. As David Lynch tells us: 'If you have a golf-ball sized consciousness, you will have a golf-ball sized understanding, awareness, and wakefulness'.

 

[godnotgod]

I get that, I am saying that is not what you are doing here. If you think you are then you are delusional.

Where do you see that I have ever made that claim? Is that what YOU think I am doing here?

 

[Ben Dhyan]

Just say "universe" then. The word "reality" is a can of worms, particularly if you start it with a capital R. And then people talk about "Absolute Reality", as if that is more real than "reality", it's just pretentious nonsense.

It is not speculation to say the reality outside of that which humans are aware...ADDED to the reality of which humans are aware...IS the total reality of the universe... Absolute reality means all reality...simple and logical....if you do not agree, please be precise and explain what it is you do not agree with in my comment?

 

[Rick O'Shez]

Ultimate Reality is touched upon when one makes efforts to go beyond what the senses and even nature dictate.

Nonsense. People have all kinds of meditative experiences and altered states of mind, but assuming they correlate to some "Ultimate Reality" is pure fantasy, wishful thinking, egocentric projection.

Is "Ultimate Reality" supposed to be more real than "Reality"? Is "Reality" supposed to be more real than "reality"? It's all pretentious nonsense.

 

[godnotgod]

Tired Zen cliche. Random emission of nonsense.​

Stop hiding behind cliches: just bring forth this 'mind' you claim is being stilled and show it to us.

 

[Rick O'Shez]

Is that what YOU think I am doing here?

Honestly? I think you like the sound of your own voice and enjoy the attention you get.

 

[Rick O'Shez]

Stop hiding behind cliches:

Again with the projection. That is all you ever do.

 

[godnotgod]

Nonsense. People have all kinds of meditative experiences and altered states of mind, but assuming they correlate to some "Ultimate Reality" is pure fantasy, wishful thinking, egocentric projection.

Is "Ultimate Reality" supposed to be more real than "Reality"? Is "Reality" supposed to be more real than "reality"? It's all pretentious nonsense.

Is the emptiness that the Buddha realized about the true nature of phenomena 'pretentious nonsense', because he was actually saying that what the ordinary man sees as 'reality' is not actually Reality. He was revealing what the ordinary mind does not see due to conditioning, and he was able have this insight simply because he made titanic efforts to overcome his own conditioning. The Buddha was a giant amongst men, to be sure.

'Nothing we see or hear is perfect, and yet there, in the midst of all of the imperfection, lies Perfect Reality!'
Shunryu Suzuki

 

[Rick O'Shez]

It is not speculation to say the reality outside of that which humans are aware...ADDED to the reality of which humans are aware...IS the total reality of the universe... Absolute reality means all reality...simple and logical....if you do not agree, please be precise and explain what it is you do not agree with in my comment?

I did just explain it, here it is again - which bit do you not agree with in my comment?

"Just say "universe" then. The word "reality" is a can of worms, particularly if you start it with a capital R. And then people talk about "Absolute Reality", as if that is more real than "reality", it's just pretentious nonsense."

 

[godnotgod]

Honestly? I think you like the sound of your own voice and enjoy the attention you get.

Let's just say that is true. What about the content of what I am saying? Would you like to say a few words about that? Or are your eyegballs surgically attached to my pointing finger so you cannot possibly turn to see the moon it points to? Now, if I am doing all of this due to ego attachment, then what I am saying must be erroneous and can easily be dismissed with simple arguments. I challenge you to show me these erroneous arguments based on ego.