Could Nothingness Be Another Dimension In And Of Itself?

[Ben Dhyan]

You know full well what I mean by "out there", so don't muddy the water with cliched talk about non-duality. Have you ever seen the Andromeda galaxy through a telescope? It's a small smudge, though we know it's unimaginably vast, approximately 220,000 light years across. It's approximately 2.5 million light years from earth, that is actually very close in astronomical terms where we are dealing with tens of billions of light years of observable universe. Are you seriously claiming the muddled religious beliefs you preach have any objective connection with what M31 is, or what the universe is? Of course they don't, and imagining they do is the height of egocentricity.

OMG....you atheists are so unaware of what and who out are in the context of the universe ... The dark energy within Andromeda is within you...there is no separation or distance... The Kingdom is within....

 

[Runewolf1973]

It is to the conditioned, limited mind, yes. You are at present totally immersed in the Universe, and the Universe in you. How can you say you cannot experience it? But if your conditioning won't allow you to see things as they are, you will see them as they are not, which means you will see them as your conditioned mind dictates reality to you.

The true nature of Reality is not based on limited experience. It is based on the transcendence of limited mind, which is Reality itself. As Patanjali tells us: 'Yoga (ie; divine union) is the cessation of all of the activities of the mind'.

The universe made these eyes. I see and experience things the way the universe intended. To each their own reality.

 

[godnotgod]

I already told you that I understand the view of seeing the Universe (and the ocean) as one thing. But that it's still self-interacting and non-uniform and can also be described as a system. There was no reason for you to call me [brain] deaf. A simple 'yes' or 'no' to my question would have sufficed (if a wave moves a couple of feet in the ocean, is it the same wave?).

For the last time: IT'S ALL WATER!

As wave-water is to ocean-water, so all 'things' are to Universe.

 

[godnotgod]

It's a familiar pattern unfortunately, insulting and patronising anyone who dares to disagree.

So back to your nice smug little notions, I see.

No, it's not because he disagrees, but because he ignored my answer in favor of his preferences over and over again. If you read the back and forth dialogue between he and I, you will see that what I am saying is the case. You just want to project/foist your straw man image onto me to make you feel even more smug.

 

[godnotgod]

You know full well what I mean by "out there", so don't muddy the water with cliched talk about non-duality. Have you ever seen the Andromeda galaxy through a telescope? It's a small smudge, though we know it's unimaginably vast, approximately 220,000 light years across. It's approximately 2.5 million light years from earth, that is actually very close in astronomical terms where we are dealing with tens of billions of light years of observable universe. Are you seriously claiming the muddled religious beliefs you preach have any objective connection with what M31 is, or what the universe is? Of course they don't, and imagining they do is the height of egocentricity.

You are none other than That, pretending not to be That, pretending to be poor little old me over here, with the great big vast fathomless Universe 'out there'....Hogwash!. Time, Space, and Causation are illusions. Remove them from your view, and you will see that...

"The Universe is The Absolute, as seen through the glass of Time, Space, and Causation"
Vivekenanda

 

[godnotgod]

OMG....you atheists are so unaware of what and who out are in the context of the universe ...

I cannot imagine how much further this systematic and sterile dumbing down of consciousness we have yet to witness. But I am fascinated by the labels and intellectual and other facades they hide behind to lend credibility to themselves. Thience seems to to be the Big Enchilada, though.

 

[godnotgod]

Sure, I guess.

Have you ever experienced a pure kind of causeless joy in just being who you really are?

I understand the view of seeing the Universe as one thing. It's still self-interacting and non-uniform.

Perhaps this non-uniformity is only superficial?

I just said the Universe is a body of interacting parts. I never said the parts were separate. The parts of a system are not separate from a system. The moment they become separate is the moment they're not a part of the system. But I've been describing the Universe as a system.

Most systems have parts that can be removed from the system. But nothing can be removed from the Universe as a 'part' as in a machine part. The Universe is not a mechanical system, like a clock or machine. Whether the Universe is a system or not is unimportant at this point; I just want to know what the Universe actually IS.

I still don't know what this means.

Have you ever sat down with a piece of music and paid serious attention to what you are hearing?

So we need mysticism to be happy? Again, I doubt it.

Most humans experience a combination of joy and suffering in their lives. These two are intertwined and inseparable, sometimes what we refer to as the 'ups and downs' of daily existence. Occasionally, someone will notice this pattern, and make a study of it, to realize the true nature of these two aspects of human life. Once joy and sorrow become a study, one can transcend them and achieve real Joy and happiness. This is not relative to suffering, but independent of it. It is an Absolute Joy. This process of its realization is a spiritual experience. Your computers and other toys will bring temporal gratification and then will fade away, and you will then seek more thrills, just as if they are drugs. You need a greater and greater 'fix' to get the same high. Spirituality frees you from all of that to experience true happiness. But the bottom line is that spirituality is like a refreshing mountain spring: you can stop to partake of its waters, or just move on. The bubbling spring just continues to flow on without the slightest concern. You always have the freedom to make your choices in life.

It's gonna take more to convince me than just saying it.

You're just hypnotized by it, that's all.

Your personal experience, therefore, anecdotal evidence and not impersonal. Spiny Norman is right. You are projecting your personal experience as some ultimate truth.

It's only a small example of what I am trying to relate to you. Fact is, people are addicted to gadgets in our society. What happens when a new iPhone comes out? People go crazy.

The vicious world created the weapons of war, not the other way around. We were vicious before the technology came. Technology isn't to blame for how vicious we've become. In fact, studies have shown that human beings are far less vicious than we use to be in the past.

No, just has taken on a different scale of viciousness. We can now press a button from afar and clinically vaporize scores of imaginary enemies. Technology has just made it easier. But no, our true nature is not of a vicious character; that is something grown in us by our society in a manner that says certain kinds of viciousness are OK. It's just that we've lost touch with our true nature, and have come to believe that selfishness, greed, and hatred are what man is at his core. All of these things are nurtured into us.

I disagree. I think it's something else messing up the balance of the world we live in. But that's a whole 'nother discussion. But I wouldn't blame technology.

We have been programmed to believe we need more and more of it for whatever reason: power, prestige, peer acceptance, convenience, status, etc.

I doubt it's the only way, or even being a way at all. I'd attribute the lack of harmony in this world to ignorance (to put it simply and very broadly).

Awakened consciousness is enlightened consciousness, the cure for ignorance.

News flash! The world has always been this way regardless of technology! The cavemen lived in a world of suspicion, fear, hatred, and violence. The Egyptians lived in a world of suspicion, fear, hatred, and violence. The entire Animal Kingdom lives in a world of suspicion, fear, hatred, and violence! It has nothing to do with technology.

Technology and the negative emotions feed each other, round and round they go in a never ending vicious circle.

You take a violent species and give it the ability to produce technology, and they're most likely gonna produce weapons. But the weapons are the effect of the violent mentality, not the cause.

But once the weapons are in place, the violence becomes more expedient. We then short circuit other solutions to the problem, and think violence via the use of weaponry the best way to 'control' the situation. No one has a handle on why we are experiencing such levels of terrorism today. People just tend to see the effect, and for them, the 'solution' is to annihilate. And for that we need more and more weaponry of higher technology. round and round we go in a spiraling inanity out of control.

Doubt it.

I, for one, can vouch for it as an authentic solution. i have zero doubt.

It's not put aside. It just becomes second nature. This is achieved via sheer practice.

Yes, but it is not in the way in an actual performance. It is 'out of the way' so the musician can focus on the content of his performance.

A spider met a centipede while hurrying down the street,
"How do you move at such a speed, with all so many feet?"
"I do not have to contemplate to keep them all in line,
But if I start to concentrate they're tangled all the time!"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Centipede's_Dilemma

 

[Rick O'Shez]

... The dark energy within Andromeda is within you.. The Kingdom is within.

God-of-the-gaps pseudo-science nonsense. Shame on you.

 

[Rick O'Shez]

So back to your nice smug little notions, I see.

No, it's an accurate observation, you DO insult and patronise anyone who dares to disagree with your preachy rhetoric.

 

[Rick O'Shez]

But I am fascinated by the labels and intellectual and other facades they hide behind to lend credibility to themselves. .

Pure projection, pot calling kettle black. It's another of your trademarks here.

 

[Rick O'Shez]

As wave-water is to ocean-water, so all 'things' are to Universe.

Still a poor analogy.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

God-of-the-gaps pseudo-science nonsense. Shame on you.

Who used the term God...atheist strawman anyone? ...Haha....

 

[Rick O'Shez]

Most systems have parts that can be removed from the system. But nothing can be removed from the Universe as a 'part' as in a machine part. The Universe is not a mechanical system, like a clock or machine.

You have completely missed the point. Systems is just a way of looking at things, including natural systems like the universe and the weather. Why do you think people talk about "the solar system"?

 

[Rick O'Shez]

Who used the term God...atheist strawman anyone? ...Haha....

Lame attempt at side-stepping. You used the phrase "The Kingdom is within".

Why do you have this hatred of atheists? Is it because you can't bear for anyone to challenge your beliefs, rather like another contributor here?

 

[Ben Dhyan]

Lame attempt at side-stepping. You used the phrase "The Kingdom is within".

Why do you have this hatred of atheists? Is it because you can't bear for anyone to challenge your beliefs, rather like another contributor here?

The dark energy is within you...dark energy is omnipresent like an infinite ocean in which the galaxies are analogous to fish...it is the ultimate kingdom... No mention of God...it is only your atheist reaction to any phrases that trigger an association with that which you believe does not exist...haha

Who said anything about hatred of atheists...I have many friends and family members who are atheists..and they love me fine... another atheist strawman anyone... ...haha

 

[godnotgod]

Still a poor analogy.

Show me where you are different from the Universe.

 

[Rick O'Shez]

The dark energy is within you...dark energy is omnipresent like an infinite ocean in which the galaxies are analogous to fish...it is the ultimate kingdom... No mention of God...it is only your atheist reaction to any phrases that trigger an association with that which you believe does not exist...haha

Lame back-peddling because you did use the phrase "The Kingdom is within". As for dark energy we know next to nothing about it, so you can cut the pointless speculating.

You do regularly attack atheists on this forum,, maybe that's because they have the temerity to challenge your sermonising?

 

[Rick O'Shez]

Show me where you are different from the Universe.

So you think you're the Andromeda galaxy? Or a black hole? Or a supernova perhaps?

 

[AndromedaRXJ]

Have you ever experienced a pure kind of causeless joy in just being who you really are?

Sure, I guess.

Perhaps this non-uniformity is only superficial?

Perhaps. And perhaps unicorns exist too. We can go all day with conjecture.

Most systems have parts that can be removed from the system.

Key word here being "most". The ones that can't are still systems.

But nothing can be removed from the Universe as a 'part' as in a machine part.

We call this an isolated system in physics. Inseparable parts are still parts.

Whether the Universe is a system or not is unimportant at this point; I just want to know what the Universe actually IS.

The Universe is a lot of things. A system being one of those things.

Have you ever sat down with a piece of music and paid serious attention to what you are hearing?

Yeah.

Most humans experience a combination of joy and suffering in their lives. These two are intertwined and inseparable, sometimes what we refer to as the 'ups and downs' of daily existence. Occasionally, someone will notice this pattern, and make a study of it, to realize the true nature of these two aspects of human life. Once joy and sorrow become a study, one can transcend them and achieve real Joy and happiness. This is not relative to suffering, but independent of it. It is an Absolute Joy. This process of its realization is a spiritual experience. Your computers and other toys will bring temporal gratification and then will fade away, and you will then seek more thrills, just as if they are drugs. You need a greater and greater 'fix' to get the same high. Spirituality frees you from all of that to experience true happiness. But the bottom line is that spirituality is like a refreshing mountain spring: you can stop to partake of its waters, or just move on. The bubbling spring just continues to flow on without the slightest concern. You always have the freedom to make your choices in life.

Can you offer anything else besides empty conjecture. You're regurgitating the same claims with nothing to back it up. No data or citations or anything. Just words.

You're just hypnotized by it, that's all.

I'm hypnotized because I don't buy into what you're saying?

Fact is, people are addicted to gadgets in our society. What happens when a new iPhone comes out? People go crazy.

You seem to rely on generalizations to prove a point. You'd have a point if every non-mystic in the world were like this. So what do you have to say about the people, who are not mystics, and are also not addicted to the gadgets or go out to buy the latest smart phone?

I, for one, don't do this. I bought my smartphone a year after it's release when it was on sale. I don't build weapons or kill people. So tell me. What would a person like me need out of your mysticism?

No, just has taken on a different scale of viciousness. We can now press a button from afar and clinically vaporize scores of imaginary enemies.

No, this is a different scale of sheer power, not a different scale of viciousness.

Viciousness is a state of mind/mentality that someone has regardless of the tools at their disposal. An angry lion that wants to kill a rival lion's cubs is vicious. If his teeth and claws are removed but his state of mind is the same, he's still equally vicious. But he's less dangerous because his weapons have been taken away.

Are humans potentially more dangerous and powerful with advanced technology? Yes. Are humans more vicious? No. Technology doesn't make us vicious. Period.

Technology has just made it easier. But no, our true nature is not of a vicious character; that is something grown in us by our society in a manner that says certain kinds of viciousness are OK. It's just that we've lost touch with our true nature, and have come to believe that selfishness, greed, and hatred are what man is at his core. All of these things are nurtured into us.

Oh really? Okay... when exactly was it that we "lost our true nature"? The cavemen era? The dark ages? The Roman Empire? Point to the era where we were so peaceful before this sudden event stripped us of our true nature and became vicious? The cavemen used the most basic rudimentary technology, and they were very vicious!

We have been programmed to believe we need more and more of it for whatever reason: power, prestige, peer acceptance, convenience, status, etc.

Awakened consciousness is enlightened consciousness, the cure for ignorance.

Technology and the negative emotions feed each other, round and round they go in a never ending vicious circle.

I'm gonna need a little more than baseless conjecture.

But once the weapons are in place, the violence becomes more expedient.

Everything becomes more expedient with technology. Violence, compassion, cruelty, kindness. Technology is the power to do anything. It's our responsibility to choose what we do with it.

We then short circuit other solutions to the problem, and think violence via the use of weaponry the best way to 'control' the situation. No one has a handle on why we are experiencing such levels of terrorism today. People just tend to see the effect, and for them, the 'solution' is to annihilate. And for that we need more and more weaponry of higher technology. round and round we go in a spiraling inanity out of control.

You don't need to keep regurgitating how violent the world is. I know it is. I just attribute it to a collection of different and more complex reasons than what you're able to realize.

I, for one, can vouch for it as an authentic solution. i have zero doubt.

It doesn't matter how little doubt you have. Making empty statements about your POV with nothing to back it up doesn't enable you to vouch for it.

A spider met a centipede while hurrying down the street,
"How do you move at such a speed, with all so many feet?"
"I do not have to contemplate to keep them all in line,
But if I start to concentrate they're tangled all the time!"

Right... because centipedes actually think this way.

 

[godnotgod]

So you think you're the Andromeda galaxy? Or a black hole? Or a supernova perhaps?

Everything is a myriad expression of a singular Reality, of That. You are That, pretending not to be That.