Could Nothingness Be Another Dimension In And Of Itself?

[Ben Dhyan]

How so?

Because the one mind/pure consciousness does not exist separate from the rest of apparent existence....the one that is all...

 

[godnotgod]

"Nothing" doesn't exist.

It is non-existence itself, out of which all existence emerges. Were it not for Nothing, Everything could not be. Were it not for Silence, there could be no Sound; were it not for Space, there would be no Form; no Ground, no Figure, as in:

 

[godnotgod]

The one/universal mind is non-dual so there are no dualities to merge...

Well, they do during the transformation into the universal mind. In essence, they vanish, as they were illusory to begin with.

 

[godnotgod]

Because the one mind/pure consciousness does not exist separate from the rest of apparent existence....the one that is all...

No, but 'existence', or rather 'manifestation', is temporal, as it exists in Space and Time. When the one mind/pure consciousness is not manifesting as the world, it implies the non-existence of something. It is Being that is intemporal, always present, and not subject to Space and Time, as it does not 'come and go' as that which merely exists.

Obviously, when the Absolute is not manifesting as the world; as Every-thing, it can be none else than No-Thing. No-thing-ness is the fundamental Reality, out of which the world is secondarily manifested.

excerpted from: 'The Tao of Zen', by Ray Griggs

(apologies for the small type; you may have to enlarge/zoom to view.)

 

[Ben Dhyan]

Well, they do during the transformation into the universal mind. In essence, they vanish, as they were illusory to begin with.

You, nor science, can prove this...are there any science projects that imagine that this nothing can be recreated in an experiment?

 

[Ben Dhyan]

No, but 'existence', or rather 'manifestation', is temporal, as it exists in Space and Time. When the one mind/pure consciousness is not manifesting as the world, it implies the non-existence of something. It is Being that is intemporal, always present, and not subject to Space and Time, as it does not 'come and go' as that which merely exists.

Obviously, when the Absolute is not manifesting as the world; as Every-thing, it can be none else than No-Thing. No-thing-ness is the fundamental Reality, out of which the world is secondarily manifested.

excerpted from: 'The Tao of Zen', by Ray Griggs

(apologies for the small type; you may have to enlarge/zoom to view.)

Space and time do not exist in reality....it is the way the mortal mind deals with the eternal now by abstracting from it the concepts of time and space. Try hard to understand that time and space are merely concepts to represent the eternal and infinite aspects of God respectively, as perceived by a temporal mind and body...they do not, and can never be applied to God.... Sorry, but the idea of God manifesting as the one absolute existence for a finite duration and then becoming nothing for a duration and so on, is ludicrous on so many levels.....but if that is you belief, so be it...

 

[Runewolf1973]

Space and time do not exist in reality....it is the way the mortal mind deals with the eternal now by abstracting from it the concepts of time and space. Try hard to understand that time and space are merely concepts to represent the eternal and infinite aspects of God respectively, as perceived by a temporal mind and body...they do not, and can never be applied to God.... Sorry, but the idea of God manifesting as the one absolute existence for a finite duration and then becoming nothing for a duration and so on, is ludicrous on so many levels.....but if that is you belief, so be it...

Godnotgod's view is more akin to a grand hallucination, not a grand illusion. The view that all of existence manifests out of pure nothingness would mean that all of existence is a hallucination. My view...the view that all of existence is one "somethingness" or one reality, but manifests as many forms is more akin to a true illusion or 'maya'. As I understand it 'maya' is not equivalent to hallucinating ie: seeing things that don't actually exist, rather it is illusion ie: things are not as they appear. Everything in the universe appears separate and divided, like separate existing things, but due to the interactive, interconnected nature of everything, there is only one true existence. I see Brahman as equivalent to that Unified Field. The singular, fundamental force or interaction out of which all other known forces or interactions are made manifest. Nothingness is not a reality of any sort.

 

[godnotgod]

You, nor science, can prove this...are there any science projects that imagine that this nothing can be recreated in an experiment?

As I recall, there is a gene in the brain that has something to do with this merging experience. Other than that, no information. But this is beyond science anyway. The mystical experience is simply "the merging of the observed, the observer, and the entire process of observation into a single Reality", as Chopra put it.

 

[freethinker44]

As I recall, there is a gene in the brain that has something to do with this merging experience. Other than that, no information. But this is beyond science anyway. The mystical experience is simply "the merging of the observed, the observer, and the entire process of observation into a single Reality", as Chopra put it.

I totally called it that you were a Chopra follower (I just didn't say anything). Chopra's a quack. He just strings together random scientific terms with a dash of mysticism that is complete BS to anyone who knows anything about the science he clearly doesn't understand.

 

[godnotgod]

Space and time do not exist in reality....it is the way the mortal mind deals with the eternal now by abstracting from it the concepts of time and space. Try hard to understand that time and space are merely concepts to represent the eternal and infinite aspects of God respectively, as perceived by a temporal mind and body...they do not, and can never be applied to God.... Sorry, but the idea of God manifesting as the one absolute existence for a finite duration and then becoming nothing for a duration and so on, is ludicrous on so many levels.....but if that is you belief, so be it...

So, then, are you saying that God manifests as the world all the time?

Yes, I do understand about the time and space issue.

You previously stated that "the one mind/pure consciousness does not exist separate from the rest of apparent existence....the one that is all..."....'Apparent existence' is existence in Time and Space. So the Absolute, though not bound by Time and Space, appears IN Time and Space.

eg: 'my kingdom is not of this world'

If the world is none other than Brahman, as you seem to agree that that is the case, then yes, that is "God manifesting as the one absolute existence for a finite duration and then becoming nothing for a duration". If you look at how nature works, it is always in cycles of 'on/off'. Theoretical physicist Sir Roger Penrose is uncovering evidence of previous universes via leftover background microwave radiation patterns. Buddhism and Hinduism have suggested a cyclical universe for centuries. Surely you are aware of the 4 kalpas.

 

[godnotgod]

I totally called it that you were a Chopra follower (I just didn't say anything). Chopra's a quack. He just strings together random scientific terms with a dash of mysticism that is complete BS to anyone who knows anything about the science he clearly doesn't understand.

I do not agree with you one bit, and no, I am not a 'Chopra follower'.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

Godnotgod's view is more akin to a grand hallucination, not a grand illusion. The view that all of existence manifests out of pure nothingness would mean that all of existence is a hallucination. My view...the view that all of existence is one "somethingness" or one reality, but manifests as many forms is more akin to a true illusion or 'maya'. As I understand it 'maya' is not equivalent to hallucinating ie: seeing things that don't actually exist, rather it is illusion ie: things are not as they appear. Everything in the universe appears separate and divided, like separate existing things, but due to the interactive, interconnected nature of everything, there is only one true existence. I see Brahman as equivalent to that Unified Field. The singular, fundamental force or interaction out of which all other known forces or interactions are made manifest. Nothingness is not a reality of any sort.

Good summary....

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

It is non-existence itself, out of which all existence emerges. Were it not for Nothing, Everything could not be. Were it not for Silence, there could be no Sound; were it not for Space, there would be no Form; no Ground, no Figure, as in:

That doesn't make any sense to me and I don't believe that "non-existence"...exists/existed.

 

[godnotgod]

That doesn't make any sense to me and I don't believe that "non-existence"...exists/existed.

The ego won't accept non-existence; it wants to go on in perpetuity. To cease it's existence is the last thing the ego wants.

Don't you see that to exist, you must have not existed at one time? The two are inseparable, like night and day.

 

[godnotgod]

The view that all of existence manifests out of pure nothingness would mean that all of existence is a hallucination. My view...the view that all of existence is one "somethingness" or one reality, but manifests as many forms is more akin to a true illusion or 'maya'. As I understand it 'maya' is not equivalent to hallucinating ie: seeing things that don't actually exist, rather it is illusion ie: things are not as they appear. Everything in the universe appears separate and divided, like separate existing things, but due to the interactive, interconnected nature of everything, there is only one true existence. I see Brahman as equivalent to that Unified Field. The singular, fundamental force or interaction out of which all other known forces or interactions are made manifest. Nothingness is not a reality of any sort.

Brahman is not a material entity. Brahman is No-Thing, acting as Some-Thing. That is maya,

 

[Ben Dhyan]

So, then, are you saying that God manifests as the world all the time?

Yes, I do understand about the time and space issue.

You previously stated that "the one mind/pure consciousness does not exist separate from the rest of apparent existence....the one that is all..."....'Apparent existence' is existence in Time and Space. So the Absolute, though not bound by Time and Space, appears IN Time and Space.

eg: 'my kingdom is not of this world'

If the world is none other than Brahman, as you seem to agree that that is the case, then yes, that is "God manifesting as the one absolute existence for a finite duration and then becoming nothing for a duration". If you look at how nature works, it is always in cycles of 'on/off'. Theoretical physicist Sir Roger Penrose is uncovering evidence of previous universes via leftover background microwave radiation patterns. Buddhism and Hinduism have suggested a cyclical universe for centuries. Surely you are aware of the 4 kalpas.

God is manifest and transcendent simultaneously....spirit and matter....they are one but because human sensory perception is limited to the manifest vibrations, the spirit is considered separate...

No. God does not appear in time and space...time and space are concepts of the human mind to make sense in the context of survival in the incarnate state..

Because the cells in your body are turning off and on through replication cycles does not mean you are turning on and off at the same time....in the analogous way, God does not turn on and off when any of the infinite manifested sub-forms cycles through births and deaths, creation and destruction, involution and evolution... God is the same, yesterday, today, and tomorrow...don't worry about the cycles of the manifested forms perceived by human perception, it is THAT which can not be perceived or conceived by the mortal mind that needs to be realized...

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

The ego won't accept non-existence; it wants to go on in perpetuity. To cease it's existence is the last thing the ego wants.

Don't you see that to exist, you must have not existed at one time? The two are inseparable, like night and day.

Um, no. I'm currently leaning towards the concept of an eternal universe. So there is no "universal mind" or creator deity of any sort. The multiverse continuously evolves and creates itself, from within itself. I'm not into neo-Hindu/New Age watered-down "mysticism" or anything of the sort. I'm not interested in being re-absorbed into the Brahman Borg, which sounds like it's severely mentally ill and needs psychiatric meds. That whole idea is deeply disgusting and hellish to me. It's basically spiritual suicide. Of course I want to exist eternally - the goal of my religion is to become a God, and that involves further individuating your Self from the tangled web of existence. I deeply cherish being a unique Spirit with my own perspectives and experiences that no other Spirit has or ever will have. I love my Self. Sorry to hear that you don't love your Self.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

godnotgod, even if you lived forever, you would not be able to apprehend the absolute reality represented by the concept of absolute reality using your mind...absolute reality is forever beyond time space interpretation...

 

[Runewolf1973]

Brahman is not a material entity. Brahman is No-Thing, acting as Some-Thing. That is maya,

How can a non-material No-Thing act as anything? Acting requires some form of interaction.

 

[godnotgod]

How can a non-material No-Thing act as anything? Acting requires some form of interaction.

It 'acts' 'as if' it is that interacting thing, just as you think you are interacting when dreaming. Consciousness is a non-material No-Thing, not bound by the material world in Time or Space.