Could Nothingness Be Another Dimension In And Of Itself?

[godnotgod]

The cosmos, universe, and world are within you. It's your own. It's your own minds/heart. Your minds/heart are your own local universe/world/cosmos.

You came from the cosmos so the cosmos is duplicated within you.

I like the way the Hindus say it:

'The saltiness of the sea is the same everywhere'

...and express Oneness:

'like dye dissolved in water'

 

[Papoon]

Nobody knows what "Gautama" proposed. The bright light is only experienced within any human being through being in darkness. "The Gautama Bodhi within."

The goals vary, the texts vary, their meanings and interpretations vary, the quotes vary, the agenda's vary throughout the same traditions. Real Buddhism isn't even a religion or exoteric practice...it's an inner practice and inner nature/character and no one even needs the texts to discover this inner nature and to know themselves.

Explanation is essentially just knowledge of something, one has to directly experience/know it within themselves.

I simply clarified what is taught as Buddhism by Buddhist teachers.

By all means express whatever you consider the truth. But it is a somewhat precarious, and dubious, proposition deciding that you can revise Buddhism and correct those who represent the teachings of that tradition. Call it something else, unless your aim is to appropriate the perceived authority of teachers of a tradition with which you do not actually agree.

 

[Unification]

I like the way the Hindus say it:

'The saltiness of the sea is the same everywhere'

...and express Oneness:

'like dye dissolved in water'

What!!!? You used something from Hindu... you new aged psuedoscience shroom snorting moon finger pointing heart sutra denying, grrrrrrrr. . only my forms of atheist Buddhism that I I I I I I I like are credible and respectable, including certain words only. Everything else is garbage dribble delusion and imagination and my nerves and emotions can't bear to hear it. How can you commit such a disturbing crime?

Sarcasm.

I like that too.

 

[godnotgod]

Nobody knows what "Gautama" proposed. The bright light is only experienced within any human being through being in darkness. "The Gautama Bodhi within."

The goals vary, the texts vary, their meanings and interpretations vary, the quotes vary, the agenda's vary throughout the same traditions. Real Buddhism isn't even a religion or exoteric practice...it's an inner practice and inner nature/character and no one even needs the texts to discover this inner nature and to know themselves.

Explanation is essentially just knowledge of something, one has to directly experience/know it within themselves.

This is a most crucial point you have made, and the very reason Yeshu said to his audience:

'You search the scriptures for eternal life, but it is I that the scriptures are about',

'i' in this case meaning the same universal consciousness found within all sentient beings. Herein lies the difference between mystical Christianity, and orthodox Christianity, and the reason why mystical practices such as Zen, Yoga, Sufism, Taoism, Kabbalah, etc, all look to the authority within, rather than to a second hand account, such as scripture, of the first hand spiritual experience.

Once inner experience occurs, and the consciousness is transformed, scripture can then be properly read and understood in the context of the authentic spiritual experience, and not the other way around!

 

[godnotgod]

What!!!? You used something from Hindu... you new aged psuedoscience shroom snorting moon finger pointing heart sutra denying, grrrrrrrr. . only my forms of atheist Buddhism that I I I I I I I like are credible and respectable, including certain words only. Everything else is garbage dribble delusion and imagination and my nerves and emotions can't bear to hear it. How can you commit such a disturbing crime?

Sarcasm.

I like that too.

'twas the serpent that caused me to eat of the Fruit'

 

[Papoon]

Sure, but what if it is a purely spontaneous event?

Same.
Or you could inhale nitrous oxide.That will also produce a temporary state of luminous mind.

 

[Unification]

I simply clarified what is taught as Buddhism by Buddhist teachers.

By all means express whatever you consider the truth. But it is a somewhat precarious, and dubious, proposition deciding that you can revise Buddhism and correct those who represent the teachings of that tradition. Call it something else, unless your aim is to appropriate the perceived authority of teachers of a tradition with which you do not actually agree.

There are many teachers that teach very wise virtue, just simply pointing out that it's all a direct experience within and that its impossible to know what was said, agenda translations, or if Guatama even existed. Also that reading texts and acquiring knowledge doesn't do much.

I'm not revising or correcting any tradition or teacher. I can honestly experience "Guatama" and "Bodhi" within me with no requirement to believe that Guatama was a real guy, or follow any teachers or interpretations of texts.

I'm not liberated if I choose to listen what others tell me I can't do when I can simply do it in truth. No teacher is my authority, except the light within, I can't even teach myself.

For me, traditions, especially exoteric... hinder inner growth.

This is just me though, I take no offense to what others may teach nor can I change or correct anyone.

 

[Unification]

'twas the serpent that caused me to eat of the Fruit'

That darn snake oil.

 

[Unification]

This is a most crucial point you have made, and the very reason Yeshu said to his audience:

'You search the scriptures for eternal life, but it is I that the scriptures are about',

'i' in this case meaning the same universal consciousness found within all sentient beings. Herein lies the difference between mystical Christianity, and orthodox Christianity, and the reason why mystical practices such as Zen, Yoga, Sufism, Taoism, Kabbalah, etc, all look to the authority within, rather than to a second hand account, such as scripture, of the first hand spiritual experience.

Once inner experience occurs, and the consciousness is transformed, scripture can then be properly read and understood in the context of the authentic spiritual experience, and not the other way around!

Well said. Well said!!

 

[Papoon]

There are many teachers that teach very wise virtue, just simply pointing out that it's all a direct experience within and that its impossible to know what was said, agenda translations, or if Guatama even existed. Also that reading texts and acquiring knowledge doesn't do much.

I'm not revising or correcting any tradition or teacher. I can honestly experience "Guatama" and "Bodhi" within me with no requirement to believe that Guatama was a real guy, or follow any teachers or interpretations of texts.

I'm not liberated if I choose to listen what others tell me I can't do when I can simply do it in truth. No teacher is my authority, except the light within, I can't even teach myself.

For me, traditions, especially exoteric... hinder inner growth.

This is just me though, I take no offense to what others may teach nor can I change or correct anyone.

Fine. So don't call it Buddhism. You can imagine you are a photon...are you then in a position to appropriate Einstein and call your ideas the theory of relativity ?

 

[godnotgod]

This is the explanation given by all the Buddhist teachers I have been fortunate enough to associate with, both Theravadin and Tibetan.
Regarding 'enlightenment' - Gautama did not propose a terminal state, or 'cosmic consciousness'. The Four Noble Truths, the succinct summation of Buddhism, states clearly that nirvana, the goal of Buddhist practice, is the absence of craving and aversion - nothing more, nothing less.

Yes, that is the case. However, I would add that, in spite of the fact that no mention is made of an ego or self associated with Nirvana, it would seem to me that the perpetuation of ego/self is none other than the perpetuation of greed, hatred, and delusion. The connection of Nirvana to The Heart Sutra would seem, then, to lie in the fact that, since consciousness has no inherent, or self-nature, and as long as the idea of self is perpetuated, delusion, and hence, suffering, will continue. When the illusion of a self-nature is seen for what it is, the pathway to higher consciousness is opened.

 

[Papoon]

Yes, that is the case. However, I would add that, in spite of the fact that no mention is made of an ego or self associated with Nirvana, it would seem to me that the perpetuation of ego/self is none other than the perpetuation of greed, hatred, and delusion. The connection of Nirvana to The Heart Sutra would seem, then, to lie in the fact that, since consciousness has no inherent, or self-nature, and as long as the idea of self is perpetuated, delusion, and hence, suffering, will continue. When the illusion of a self-nature is seen for what it is, the pathway to higher consciousness is opened.

No. According to the teaching called Buddhism, there is no need to annihilate ego, were that even possible. Which it is not. Take yourself for example - how often are you in the proposed pristine egolessness ?
And if someone was in such a state, how would they even register, let alone report, that state ?

If you want an answer to your question in the terms used by Tibetan lamas, it is this - the state called enlightened mind is the coemergence of nirvana and samsara.

 

[Papoon]

Also referred to as 'the ordinary mind of nowness'

 

[Papoon]

Anglicised Tibetan - themel ge shepa

 

[godnotgod]

Fine. So don't call it Buddhism. You can imagine you are a photon...are you then in a position to appropriate Einstein and call your ideas the theory of relativity ?

According to Dogen, 'All existents are Buddha nature'. Therefore, what was inside the Buddha through which he experienced Enlightenment is the same stuff that is inside all sentient beings. Buddha nature is universal to all.

http://buddhism.about.com/od/mahayanabuddhism/a/Buddha-Nature.htm

 

[Papoon]

Ma ghak lhun drub..eh ma ho !

The spontaneous appearances, how wonderful !

 

[Papoon]

Fortunately for me, I got it from the horse's mouth. And I didn't need antibiotics !

 

[godnotgod]

No. According to the teaching called Buddhism, there is no need to annihilate ego, were that even possible. Which it is not. Take yourself for example - how often are you in the proposed pristine egolessness ?
And if someone was in such a state, how would they even register, let alone report, that state ?

If you want an answer to your question in the terms used by Tibetan lamas, it is this - the state called enlightened mind is the coemergence of nirvana and samsara.

Yes, I see that. However, as regards annihilation of the ego, it cannot be so annihilated simply because it does not exist, which seems to be exactly what the Heart Sutra is saying when it refers to the idea that consciousness has no inherent self-nature, even though it seems to be the case. So many adherents falsely embark upon a path of annihilation where no such annihilation is called for or even possible, as you pointed out.

 

[godnotgod]

Also referred to as 'the ordinary mind of nowness'

Zen would say that the Ordinary and the Miraculous are one and the same.

 

[Papoon]

Of course there is ego. Correctly perceived it is anatta. 'Not self'.