Could Nothingness Be Another Dimension In And Of Itself?

[godnotgod]

Just as I thought. You don't know, and that tells me everything there is to know about you!

It means I don't understand what you are on about, your weird use of language. Tell me then. What is the practical difference between fleeting now and eternal now?

Let's have a clear and succinct explanation from you, not another load of tautological jargon or another confused Alan Watts monologue.

You confidently suggested I stop conceptualizing and feel the Present Moment. If you truly knew what it is about, there would be no question. The fact that you still entertain ideas about the fleeting moment means you don't know what the experience of the Present Moment is.

Alan Watts is not confused. YOU are!

 

[godnotgod]

I have asked you several times. Do you now accept that sunyata is incompatible with "cosmic consciousness"?

The current discussion is in regards to the validity of Perfect View.

 

[Runewolf1973]

How would you know? Your mind is still embroiled in the world.

So are you saying the world and the mind is separate from reality?

 

[Rick O'Shez]

The fact that you still entertain ideas about the fleeting moment means you don't know what the experience of the Present Moment is.

I note you haven't actually answered the question: "What is the practical difference between fleeting now and eternal now?"

If you have any authentic experience of the distinction you will be able to answer the question in a clear and straightforward way. If you can't do that it strongly suggests it's just another clever-sounding idea you've picked up.

Go on then, tell me.

 

[humanelk]

I think all this bickering is still about abstract concepts and words. In my experience with meditation and Buddhist thought, it is on a good track, but still based in a very literal tradition that always sidetracked me a lot. I've found it more helpful to recognize that it's bodily sensations: sound, touch, smell, hearing, internal feelings and sight...etc: these are where our experiences are rooted, and they're especially powerful when we focus them on the more-than-human world of non-conceptualized nature. Vipassana got me close to this, but I think all the words like : Nirvana, Zen, Wisdom, perfection, etc. felt more like conceptual "achievements," and hence were distractions from the sensuous experience of this moment.

 

[Rick O'Shez]

The current discussion is in regards to the validity of Perfect View.

The current discussion is about your avoidance of the question: "Do you now accept that sunyata is incompatible with "cosmic consciousness?"

 

[Rick O'Shez]

I've found it more helpful to recognize that it's bodily sensations: sound, touch, smell, hearing, internal feelings and sight...etc: these are where our experiences are rooted, and they're especially powerful when we focus them on the more-than-human world of non-conceptualized nature. Vipassana got me close to this, but I think all the words like : Nirvana, Zen, Wisdom, perfection, etc. felt more like conceptual "achievements," and hence were distractions the sensuous experience of this moment.

I agree entirely. Concept v. reality. Directly experiencing the present moment instead of conceptualising about it.

 

[godnotgod]

So are you saying the world and the mind is separate from reality?

I am saying that ideas about Reality, based on appearances, are not about the true nature of Reality, which is the source of the appearances, 'appearances' being the world.

 

[godnotgod]

I think all this bickering is still about abstract concepts and words. In my experience with meditation and Buddhist thought, it is on a good track, but still based in a very literal tradition that always sidetracked me a lot. I've found it more helpful to recognize that it's bodily sensations: sound, touch, smell, hearing, internal feelings and sight...etc: these are where our experiences are rooted, and they're especially powerful when we focus them on the more-than-human world of non-conceptualized nature. Vipassana got me close to this, but I think all the words like : Nirvana, Zen, Wisdom, perfection, etc. felt more like conceptual "achievements," and hence were distractions from the sensuous experience of this moment.

We are here discussing what 'Perfect View' is, and PV is beyond perceptual reality, which is what you are referring to. PV is about Ultimate Reality, that which is beyond all phenomena and the perceiving of all phenomena. Perceptual reality only serves to be an obstacle to transcendence. What the Buddha realized about perceptual reality is:

'form is emptiness;
emptiness is form'

 

[YmirGF]

I am saying that ideas about Reality, based on appearances, are not about the true nature of Reality, which is the source of the appearances, 'appearances' being the world.

and yet your assertions about the so-called "true" nature of reality is, necessarily, filtered through the confirmation bias of your own conceptual mind... unless you are an oracle from "on high".

 

[godnotgod]

I agree entirely. Concept v. reality. Directly experiencing the present moment instead of conceptualising about it.

So then why is it that you don't know the difference between the eternal Present Moment and the fleeting moment?

 

[godnotgod]

and yet your assertions about the so-called "true" nature of reality is, necessarily, filtered through the confirmation bias of your own conceptual mind... unless you are an oracle from "on high".

If there is a view tainted via confirmation bias, then, via logical argument, there must be an untainted view. That untainted, unborn, unconditioned view is Perfect View.

 

[YmirGF]

If there is a view tainted via confirmation bias, then, via logical argument, there must be an untainted view. That untainted, unborn, unconditioned view is Perfect View.

You may as well be arguing purple unicorns then as we have no evidence, whatsoever, of your imagined "perfect view".

Exit question: You do understand how limiting holding an idea like a supposed "perfect view" could play out, right?

 

[godnotgod]

The current discussion is about your avoidance of the question: "Do you now accept that sunyata is incompatible with "cosmic consciousness?"

You are trying to divert the discussion, which is not about CC, but about Perfect View, because you I have squarely answered the question about PV by referring you to your very own sutras, namely the Prajnamaramita, or 'The Perfection of Wisdom', which you choose to ignore.

 

[godnotgod]

You may as well be arguing purple unicorns then as we have no evidence, whatsoever, of your imagined "perfect view".

Once again: if a view contaminated by confirmation bias exists, then logically speaking, a view untainted by confirmation bias also exists. Can you grasp or no? Try.

 

[YmirGF]

Once again: if a view contaminated by confirmation bias exists, then logically speaking, a view untainted by confirmation bias also exists. Can you grasp or no? Try.

Hypothetically, for sure, but I don't believe for a second that any of us are ever free from said bias. You are certainly welcome to pretend otherwise.

Besides which, it's rather strange having someone who says their experience is beyond the rational and beyond the logic of the conceptual mind to employ logic to make their case.

 

[godnotgod]

I note you haven't actually answered the question: "What is the practical difference between fleeting now and eternal now?"

If you have any authentic experience of the distinction you will be able to answer the question in a clear and straightforward way. If you can't do that it strongly suggests it's just another clever-sounding idea you've picked up.

Go on then, tell me.

Why, when you already know what the Present Moment is all about?

If you go back and re-read my comments about this, you will find that I have already answered the question, but it requires that you be attentive.

 

[godnotgod]

Hypothetically, for sure, but I don't believe for a second that any of us are ever free from said bias. You are certainly welcome to pretend otherwise.

Why do you insist on staying chained up? Do you feel more secure that way?

If you don't see things as they are, then you will only see them as they are not. Your choice.

 

[YmirGF]

Why do you insist on staying chained up? Do you feel more secure that way?

If you don't see things as they are, then you will only see them as they are not. Your choice.

I see a rather large difference in our approaches. I much prefer to say that I see things as they might be. I'm not willing to make definitive statements about unknown reality and say that I see things as they are as that is perilously close to being delusional. You, my friend, are a perfect example of why I have adopted my approach.

 

[Rick O'Shez]

You are trying to divert the discussion, which is not about CC, but about Perfect View, because you I have squarely answered the question about PV by referring you to your very own sutras, namely the Prajnamaramita, or 'The Perfection of Wisdom', which you choose to ignore.

There isn't a major difference of opinion about perfection of wisdom, and you are the one who is diverting.

So I ask again, do you now accept that sunyata is incompatible with your "cosmic consciousness"?