Could Nothingness Be Another Dimension In And Of Itself?

[godnotgod]

godnotgod said: ↑
The Heart Sutra talks about Supreme Enlightenment.

No it doesn't, it talks about the perfection of wisdom.
.

DUH!

The Perfection of Wisdom IS Enlightenment!

from The Heart Sutra:

"All Buddhas in the past, present and future have attained Supreme Enlightenment by relying on the Prajnaparamita."

http://www.usashaolintemple.org/chanbuddhism-heartsutratranslation/

 

[godnotgod]

I'm still waiting for you to explain the practical difference between fleeting present and eternal present...

Here's a little hint I heard from a little birdie this morning.....

tick...tock...tick...tock...

Now all you've got to do is connect some dots. Consider this part of your intuitive insight training.

 

[godnotgod]

Sure. Meanwhile you can't express yourself in plain English and you just make stuff up to fit your personal agenda.

You want bite sized black and white digestible rational explanations that fit neatly into round holes for an experience that is beyond the rational mind. That is why Zen, for example, is a finger pointing to the moon, but is not the moon itself.

I've already settled the question about Perfect View in relation to The Heart Sutra, which is The Perfection of Wisdom. They are one and the same. Use your intelligence to see this simple fact.

 

[YmirGF]

You want bite sized black and white digestible rational explanations that fit neatly into round holes for an experience that is beyond the rational mind. That is why Zen, for example, is a finger pointing to the moon, but is not the moon itself.

I've already settled the question about Perfect View in relation to The Heart Sutra, which is The Perfection of Wisdom. They are one and the same. Use your intelligence to see this simple fact.

So, let me get this straight. You want Spiny to use his intelligence to comprehend something that is beyond the rational mind. Yep, that makes sense.

 

[godnotgod]

So, let me get this straight. You want Spiny to use his intelligence to comprehend something that is beyond the rational mind. Yep, that makes sense.

Because it is beyond the rational mind does not mean it is irrational; it means it is not based on Reason. IOW, it is a non-rationally based experienced in the sense that it does not involve thinking. It involves SEEING, which is intelligence itself. Seeing into the nature of things is an intuitively-driven experience. IOW, the rational mind is short-circuited.

Having said that, once a solution is seen, the rational mind can then be used to talk about it.

 

[YmirGF]

Because it is beyond the rational mind does not mean it is irrational; it means it is not based on Reason. IOW, it is a non-rationally based experienced in the sense that it does not involve thinking. It involves SEEING, which is intelligence itself. Seeing into the nature of things is an intuitively-driven experience.

So.... since you are seeing with a perfect view there is no problem flying by the seat of you pants... gotcha...

 

[godnotgod]

When you climb a mountain, do you get higher?

You've defined consciousness as awareness.

Is there such thing as higher awareness? If the word "higher" tickles your nerves.... would "stronger awareness" appease your needs?

When you become aware of something you once did not understand... is your awareness increasing?

When one realizes that emptiness and form are ONE and the same, is their awareness increasing?

The Buddha said:

"form is emptiness;
emptiness is form"

That is the view of an enlightened mind. Form is emptiness because no phenomena possesses any self-nature. Everything is interconnected with everything else as One.

The unenlightened do not see it that way. They see form as substantive and distinct from all other forms. What this means is simply that the mind with which the Buddha saw things was a mind transformed by his experience. This transformation of consciousness, or spiritual Awakening, is sometimes called Higher Consciousness, as compared to conditioned mind or Ordinary Mind. The seeming paradox is that Ordinary Mind is the same as Buddha Mind.

 

[godnotgod]

So.... since you are seeing with a perfect view there is no problem flying by the seat of you pants... gotcha...

???

It appears from your snide comment that your ego is getting in the way and seeing 'perfect view' as an egotistical exercise. It is exactly the opposite.

 

[YmirGF]

???

It appears from your snide comment that your ego is getting in the way and seeing 'perfect view' as an egotistical exercise. It is exactly the opposite.

No, it's not me, because I understand that your pronouncements are filtered through your own confirmation bias, through your ego, which makes them so grandiose as to be unrecognizable and therefore relatively meaningless. The only way around this I can see is if you are directly channeling reality, with no ego, which would be relatively impossible, but we can always pretend. Are you directly channeling reality?

 

[godnotgod]

No, it's not me, because I understand that your pronouncements are filtered through your own confirmation bias, through your ego, which makes them so grandiose as to be unrecognizable and therefore relatively meaningless. The only way around this I can see is if you are directly channeling reality, with no ego, which would be relatively impossible, but we can always pretend. Are you directly channeling reality?

No, reality is directly channeling itself as me, as you, as Everything.

 

[YmirGF]

No, reality is directly channeling itself as me, as you, as Everything.

Not a helpful answer, especially in context to my direct question, because you are already on record as saying that "me" and "you" are illusory and you have used the concept of "maya" to bolster your argument. Obviously, according to your perspective, some channels are much clearer than others. To further the allusion, you openly claim that some channels are perfectly clear or have a perfect view or are free from distortion. Are you one of the lucky ones with a perfect view?

 

[Unification]

The Buddha said:

"form is emptiness;
emptiness is form"

That is the view of an enlightened mind. Form is emptiness because no phenomena possesses any self-nature. Everything is interconnected with everything else as One.

The unenlightened do not see it that way. They see form as substantive and distinct from all other forms. What this means is simply that the mind with which the Buddha saw things was a mind transformed by his experience. This transformation of consciousness, or spiritual Awakening, is sometimes called Higher Consciousness, as compared to conditioned mind or Ordinary Mind. The seeming paradox is that Ordinary Mind is the same as Buddha Mind.

I never knew anything was beyond the ordinary mind until I sunk my ship, realized the captain(me) was wrong about everything I perceived no matter how intelligent or good I thought that I was. I went in solitude and silence for 6 months.. no friends, no television, no drama, no nothing influencing me. Everything in life during that time I made no judgements of, only observed. Everything my mind perceived as is needed destroyed and to an empty state, then the rebuilding and radical transformation occurred. Pretty humbling.

You name it, everything.... how I saw and judged others, how I viewed myself and my environment, how I defined "God" or how I defined and perceived everything.... needed empty and clean and swept away. Everything that was impure, I ceased to do. I denied the fire burning within me to give in to many things. Denied all and any thoughts or emotions of what "I" perceived and defined everything to be. The sacrifice of knowledge, thoughts, emotions, perceptions, impurity. . my entire mental worldview had to go.

I even felt the light or energy within me kick on and transform my mind and heart which felt like jolts striking my brain and heart. . rising, ascending, descending within my body back and forth.

Yes, everything is one and there remains no partiality. The experience of complete unity in everything. Ones character and nature is the only thing that will reflect such, how one is with themselves and with others. Ones speech, ones character, ones nature, ones self-control radically reflects it. Intellect or how much knowledge one has of the external universe is irrelevant. It is all knowing and direct experience. It's summed up in three words: "to know thyself." Complete liberation from the external environment of other minds, from being ones own worst enemy, and from suffering.

The Buddah conscious, Christ conscious, super conscious, higher conscious, supreme enlightenment, cosmic consciousness, pure consciousness, supreme awakening, radiant awareness... there have been many terms for it which all mean the same and it's not the meaning that matters, it's the direct experience.

Every human being is always being enlightened in some way, a little here and a little there. That is the fleeting, small tastes and glimpses.

Going all the way to other shore without ending the journey prematurely is where the outpouring and flooding of the light or energy within opens the gates of the mind to the "supreme" enlightenment. Having a crystal clear and aware mind. A pure mind and heart will only see this. The journey never ends, but a radically new mind and heart during the journey of life, with oneself and with others..makes everything so heavenly. That is the eternal, and it also comes with no concepts or rumination of the past, with zero burdens or regret. All is left behind, all is forgiven for the present and road ahead. The new captain of a new ship is smooth sailing. I have little but have everything, and am completely content and fulfilled. The ability to discern, know, and see along the journey.

Even though it's a lonelier journey and road, and one feels like a modern day man living with a bunch of cavemen.... wouldn't trade it for anything. The sacrifices of my own life, my own knowledge and perceptions, becoming self accountable and responsible with no blame, were the initial trade and price paid.

 

[YmirGF]

I never knew anything was beyond the ordinary mind until I sunk my ship.

Thanks for sharing your journey. I am very interested in this first part however. What did you do to sink the ship, as it were?
If you don't want to explain, I understand. If you like you could just send me a Private Message. I promise I won't bite.

My own initial awakening happened in a quiet room with several friends in attendance. It was quite spontaneous and not at all how I had expected the evening to go, LOL. I remember walking the several miles home that night.... sort of like a walking comet...

 

[Rick O'Shez]

Now all you've got to do is connect some dots. Consider this part of your intuitive insight training.

Which is code for "I said something clever-sounding I got from somebody else, but I haven't experienced it myself and therefore I can't explain it." OK.

 

[Rick O'Shez]

The seeming paradox is that Ordinary Mind is the same as Buddha Mind.

Seeming paradox? Do tell us how how ordinary mind is really the same as "Buddha mind". How can a conditioned mind be the same as an unconditioned mind? I don't understand it, but apparently you do, so please explain.

 

[Rick O'Shez]

It appears from your snide comment that your ego is getting in the way and seeing 'perfect view' as an egotistical exercise.

Pot calling kettle black. Again! We've spoken before about your tendency to project.....now go to your room and say 3 Hail Marys and 4 Our Fathers.

 

[Rick O'Shez]

I've already settled the question about Perfect View in relation to The Heart Sutra, which is The Perfection of Wisdom. They are one and the same. Use your intelligence to see this simple fact.

You haven't "settled" anything, you're just trying to gloss over stuff which doesn't fit in with your "theory".

But why are you going on about "Perfect View"? If it just means wisdom or insight why not just say that? Why do you keep churning out these jargony phrases? The Heart Sutra is all about wisdom, right?

 

[godnotgod]

No, it's not me, because I understand that your pronouncements are filtered through your own confirmation bias, through your ego, which makes them so grandiose as to be unrecognizable and therefore relatively meaningless. The only way around this I can see is if you are directly channeling reality, with no ego, which would be relatively impossible, but we can always pretend. Are you directly channeling reality?

No, reality is directly channeling itself as me, as you, as Everything.

Not a helpful answer, especially in context to my direct question, because you are already on record as saying that "me" and "you" are illusory and you have used the concept of "maya" to bolster your argument. Obviously, according to your perspective, some channels are much clearer than others. To further the allusion, you openly claim that some channels are perfectly clear or have a perfect view or are free from distortion. Are you one of the lucky ones with a perfect view?

You cleverly and deceitfully want to shift the argument to me, rather than stay on topic, don't you?

After pages and pages, you still fail to grasp the meaning of me and you, because you see it and then choose to dismiss/ignore it. I will only summarize by saying that there is self and there is Self. You don't get any more explanations. Now go fetch.

Some channels are clearer than others because some are more awakened than others, and have less baggage in the way.

I have explained Perfect View in several ways. Suffice it to say that there is no Viewer of Perfect View; there is only Perfect View, which is partly why it is so called. Not-Perfect View is Self-View.

Now cease and desist your silliness in trying every which way to get into my door. Ain't gonna happen. The only way you're gonna get past me is to disappear.

Phhhhtttt!

 

[godnotgod]

I never knew anything was beyond the ordinary mind until I sunk my ship, realized the captain(me) was wrong about everything I perceived no matter how intelligent or good I thought that I was. I went in solitude and silence for 6 months.. no friends, no television, no drama, no nothing influencing me. Everything in life during that time I made no judgements of, only observed. Everything my mind perceived as is needed destroyed and to an empty state, then the rebuilding and radical transformation occurred. Pretty humbling.

You name it, everything.... how I saw and judged others, how I viewed myself and my environment, how I defined "God" or how I defined and perceived everything.... needed empty and clean and swept away. Everything that was impure, I ceased to do. I denied the fire burning within me to give in to many things. Denied all and any thoughts or emotions of what "I" perceived and defined everything to be. The sacrifice of knowledge, thoughts, emotions, perceptions, impurity. . my entire mental worldview had to go.

I even felt the light or energy within me kick on and transform my mind and heart which felt like jolts striking my brain and heart. . rising, ascending, descending within my body back and forth.

Yes, everything is one and there remains no partiality. The experience of complete unity in everything. Ones character and nature is the only thing that will reflect such, how one is with themselves and with others. Ones speech, ones character, ones nature, ones self-control radically reflects it. Intellect or how much knowledge one has of the external universe is irrelevant. It is all knowing and direct experience. It's summed up in three words: "to know thyself." Complete liberation from the external environment of other minds, from being ones own worst enemy, and from suffering.

The Buddah conscious, Christ conscious, super conscious, higher conscious, supreme enlightenment, cosmic consciousness, pure consciousness, supreme awakening, radiant awareness... there have been many terms for it which all mean the same and it's not the meaning that matters, it's the direct experience.

Every human being is always being enlightened in some way, a little here and a little there. That is the fleeting, small tastes and glimpses.

Going all the way to other shore without ending the journey prematurely is where the outpouring and flooding of the light or energy within opens the gates of the mind to the "supreme" enlightenment. Having a crystal clear and aware mind. A pure mind and heart will only see this. The journey never ends, but a radically new mind and heart during the journey of life, with oneself and with others..makes everything so heavenly. That is the eternal, and it also comes with no concepts or rumination of the past, with zero burdens or regret. All is left behind, all is forgiven for the present and road ahead. The new captain of a new ship is smooth sailing. I have little but have everything, and am completely content and fulfilled. The ability to discern, know, and see along the journey.

Even though it's a lonelier journey and road, and one feels like a modern day man living with a bunch of cavemen.... wouldn't trade it for anything. The sacrifices of my own life, my own knowledge and perceptions, becoming self accountable and responsible with no blame, were the initial trade and price paid.

Very wonderful indeed! Thank you for sharing your powerful transformative experience.

The Buddha said:

"Poverty is your greatest treasure; never exchange it for a rich and easy life"

Not an easy lesson to understand for most of us.

 

[YmirGF]

No, reality is directly channeling itself as me, as you, as Everything.

So.... Ultimate Reality is expressing itself through a world of illusion. Yep... that makes a great deal of sense.

You cleverly and deceitfully want to shift the argument to me, rather than stay on topic, don't you?

Sorry for asking a direct question that you evidently don't want to answer.

After pages and pages, you still fail to grasp the meaning of me and you, because you see it and then choose to dismiss/ignore it. I will only summarize by saying that there is self and there is Self. You don't get any more explanations. Now go fetch.

And yet when I have brought up the idea of a "larger identity" you pee'd all over the idea. I'm sensing a bit of a double-standard at play here. An important distinction between our views is that I see the "self" as being the three-dimensional actualization of the "Self". It is far, very far, from being illusory.

Some channels are clearer than others because some are more awakened than others, and have less baggage in the way.

This is germane to my question though. I was simply asking you where you see yourself in this plethora of channels.

I have explained Perfect View in several ways. Suffice it to say that there is no Viewer of Perfect View; there is only Perfect View, which is partly why it is so called. Not-Perfect View is Self-View.

Thank you, Captain Koan. *sigh*

Now cease and desist your silliness in trying every which way to get into my door. Ain't gonna happen. The only way you're gonna get past me is to disappear.

I was trying to have a discussion, my tiresome friend. Would you rather just lecture?