Alan McDougall
Member
You seem to be forgetting that this Chapter is telling the story of the murder of little children, the same sort of barbarity the world saw in the death camps of Hitler. "Genocide my friend Genocide"
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Could some explain chapter Numbers 31
- Thread starter Alan McDougall
- Start date
You seem to be forgetting that this Chapter is telling the story of the murder of little children, the same sort of barbarity the world saw in the death camps of Hitler. "Genocide my friend Genocide"
CG Didymus
Veteran Member
Who else but born-again Christians believes in the "age of accountability"? It's as if God is doing them a favor by having children killed? Why kill the older kids and the women? Give them a chance to get "saved". Wait, how did one get saved in the OT? They had to become Jewish? So all people other than Jews that died, all went to hell? And, I suppose some bad Jews that broke the Law? Wait, Christians believe that none of them followed the Law, right? So none of them went to heaven? That is... except the little ones that hadn't reached the "age of accountability" when God had them killed off.
Also, putting an end to their "race"? If the Bible were true, then all people are descendant from Noah and all related. There's no "race" there. It's only one tribe of distant cousins killing another and saying their God told them to do it. But really, did any of God's killing solve anything? Sodom and Gomorrah? No. Drowning everybody in the flood? No. By your logic, God should have killed all the Germans... except the cute virgin girls, of course. They pose no threat.
Alan McDougall
Member
That reduces the infinite Almighty God who created the universe, down to the level of a depraved human psychopath!
Alan McDougall
Member
Thus Jesus love is selective, the little Medianite boys did not merit his mercy and love because they supposedly had evil parents?
Alan McDougall
Member
"The God of Numbers Chapter 31 was more like Satan than the Father God of Jesus Christ"
yiostheoy
Member
Best thing is to remember that Christianity has nothing to do with the Hebrew Old Testament (Tenakh).
Christianity starts with The Sermon On The Mount in Matthew Chapter 5 of the Greek New Testament.
yiostheoy
Member
Little boys grow up to become terrorists. We have seen plenty of this in modern times.
Alan McDougall
Member
Get real , little innocent children are not terrorists and Numbers 31 have nothing to do with this Islamic Fundamentalist phenomenon (Not all the Moslems that are peace loving people)
yiostheoy
Member
That's certainly one possible speculative explanation.
Moses had a Midian wife however, who was not Hebrew either, so I doubt he would have come up with this on his own though.
Maybe it got altered through transcription throughout the ages?
Hard to say.
Anything that is 3500 years old is going to be hard to fathom in places.
yiostheoy
Member
I can tell that you have never been to see any of the refugee camps in Jordan.
Alan McDougall
Member
Yes but this God allowed the army of Moses to keep virgins for their own pleasure, yet contradicts itself in demanding selectively that if a person caught in the act of fornication or adultery they must be stoned to death.
Alan McDougall
Member
It is not hard to fathom it is a case of barbarity of one nation against the other "genocide" and it is ridiculous nonsense to suggest that the ancient Hebrews under Moses were any more righteous or deserving than other peoples during that epoch?
yiostheoy
Member
Jews don't worry about it.
They see the issue strictly as one of land ownership.
God gave this land to the Jews. End of story.
Christians are not concerned with Jewish beliefs nor their history.
Christianity begins with The Sermon On The Mount not with the Hebrew "Old Testament" (Tenakh).
Ingledsva
HEATHEN ALASKAN
It is not distorted. Both the Bible and Qur'an say they can rape captives, and keep or sell virgins, - hold sex slaves, etc.
Today, Isis is using this to their advantage to attract young men into the group.
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Ingledsva
HEATHEN ALASKAN
Deuteronomy 21:11-13 is RAPE not marriage. The words should be translated - woman - master, etc. At this point they are not to marry foreign women.
Deu 21:10 When thou goest forth to war against thine enemies, and the LORD thy God hath delivered them into thine hands, and thou hast taken them captive,
Deu 21:11 And seest among the captives a beautiful woman, and hast a desire for her, that thou wouldest have her to thy (WOMAN)
Deu 21:12 Then thou shalt bring her home to thine house; and she shall shave her head, and pare her nails;
Deu 21:13 And she shall put the raiment of her captivity from off her, and shall remain in thine house, and bewail her father and her mother a full month: and after that thou shalt go in unto her (RAPE), and be her (Master/Owner,) and she shall be thy (WOMAN.)
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Ingledsva
HEATHEN ALASKAN
Actually you have to remember the time we are talking about.
Females were owned by their fathers and handed off as soon as possible to ownership by another male.
The saved females in this verse would be very young, under the age of puberty (10-12), and probably much younger.
We are actually told babies could be "married/engaged" at three years and one day old, through intercourse.
So obviously very young children - to be kept for rape, as sex slaves.
A Jewish site that I went to said the 30 day crying time - was actually to insure those in the puberty range - would have a period - thus insuring that they were not already pregnant with enemy babies.
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FearGod
Freedom Of Mind
Which verse in the quran that says rape and sell virgins?
Ingledsva
HEATHEN ALASKAN
This is not correct. You folks need to read all of Numbers. They did not try to destroy the Hebrew. In fact the Hebrew were living among them - and the Hebrew people started to worship their Gods and have sex with their women. The Hebrew then committed genocide, - killing their own people for this. Then they are told to kill the Midianites.
The Hebrew tribes were marching across the land (supposedly,) and Balak was afraid he didn't have enough warriors to fight them off. He asks Balaam to curse them. Balaam does not do this however, and then we find the people settled together.
Num 22:10 And Balaam said unto God, Balak the son of Zippor, king of Moab, hath sent unto me, saying,
Num 22:11 Behold, there is a people come out of Egypt, which covereth the face of the earth: come now, curse me them; peradventure I shall be able to overcome them, and drive them out.
Num 24:1 And when Balaam saw that it pleased the LORD to bless Israel, he went not, as at other times, to seek for enchantments, but he set his face toward the wilderness.
Num 25:1 And Israel abode in ****tim, and the people began to commit whoredom with the daughters of Moab.
Num 25:2 And they called the people unto the sacrifices of their gods: and the people did eat, and bowed down to their gods.
Num 25:3 And Israel joined himself unto Baalpeor: and the anger of the LORD was kindled against Israel.
Num 25:4 And the LORD said unto Moses, Take all the heads of the people, and hang them up before the LORD against the sun, that the fierce anger of the LORD may be turned away from Israel.
Num 25:5 And Moses said unto the judges of Israel, Slay ye every one his men that were joined unto Baalpeor.
Num 25:6 And, behold, one of the children of Israel came and brought unto his brethren a Midianitish woman in the sight of Moses, and in the sight of all the congregation of the children of Israel, who were weeping before the door of the tabernacle of the congregation.
Num 25:7 And when Phinehas, the son of Eleazar, the son of Aaron the priest, saw it, he rose up from among the congregation, and took a javelin in his hand;
Num 25:8 And he went after the man of Israel into the tent, and thrust both of them through, the man of Israel, and the woman through her belly. So the plague was stayed from the children of Israel.
Num 25:9 And those that died in the plague were twenty and four thousand.
Num 25:18 For they vex you with their wiles, wherewith they have beguiled you in the matter of Peor, and in the matter of Cozbi, the daughter of a prince of Midian, their sister, which was slain in the day of the plague for Peor's sake.
Num 31:1 And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying,
Num 31:2 Avenge the children of Israel of the Midianites: afterward shalt thou be gathered unto thy people.
Num 31:7 And they warred against the Midianites, as the LORD commanded Moses; and they slew all the males.
Num 31:8 And they slew the kings of Midian, beside the rest of them that were slain; namely, Evi, and Rekem, and Zur, and Hur, and Reba, five kings of Midian: Balaam also the son of Beor they slew with the sword.
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As any sane person can see - the Hebrew had no reason, or right, to kill these people and kidnap and rape their little girls.
When you march an army into another people's land, settle, and then YOUR people start going native, worshiping their Gods and sleeping with their women, - that is YOUR problem, - and not that of the people whose land you are occupying!
ALSO - killing all the males, then having sex with the females, would produce half-breeds, not an end to a race.
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Ingledsva
HEATHEN ALASKAN
Qur’an 33:50—O Prophet! surely We have made lawful to you your wives whom you have given their dowries, and those whom your right hand possesses out of those whom Allah has given to you as prisoners of war ...
Qur’an 23:1-6—The Believers must (eventually) win through—those who humble themselves in their prayers; who avoid vain talk; who are active in deeds of charity; who abstain from sex, except with those joined to them in the marriage bond, or (the captives) whom their right hands possess—for (in their case) they are free from blame.
Qur’an 70:22-30—Not so those devoted to Prayer—those who remain steadfast to their prayer; and those in whose wealth is a recognized right for the (needy) who asks and him who is prevented (for some reason from asking); and those who hold to the truth of the Day Of Judgement; and those who fear the displeasure of their Lord—for their Lord’s displeasure is the opposite of Peace and Tranquility—and those who guard their chastity, except with their wives and the (captives) whom their right hands possess—for (then) they are not to be blamed.
Sahih Muslim 3371—We went out with Allah’s Messenger on the expedition to the Bi’l-Mustaliq and took captive some excellent Arab women; and we desired them, for we were suffering from the absence of our wives, (but at the same time) we also desired ransom for them. So we decided to have sexual intercourse with them but by observing azl (withdrawing the male sexual organ before emission of semen to avoid conception). But we said: We are doing an act whereas Allah’s Messenger is amongst us; why not ask him? So we asked Allah’s Messenger, and he said: It does not matter if you do not do it, for every soul that is to be born up to the Day of Resurrection will be born.
Qur’an 4:24—Also (prohibited are) women already married, except those whom your right hands possess ...
Here's the historical background for this verse:
Sunan Abu Dawud 2150—The Apostle of Allah sent a military expedition to Awtas on the occasion of the battle of Hunain. They met their enemy and fought with them. They defeated them and took them captives. Some of the Companions of the Apostle of Allah were reluctant to have intercourse with the female captives in the presence of their husbands who were unbelievers. So Allah, the Exalted, sent down the Qur’anic verse: “And all married women (are forbidden) unto you save those (captives) whom your right hands possess.” That is to say, they are lawful for them when they complete their waiting period.
"... I told the Muftis of Mecca that I had a question, since they were men who specialized in what was halal, and what was good, and who loved women. I said, “What is the law of sex slaves?”
The mufti said, “With the law of sex slaves, there must be a Muslim nation at war with a nation which is not of the religion of the Kitab [Jews, Christians, Muslims], not of the religion of Islam. And there must be prisoners of war.”
“Is this forbidden by Islam?” I asked.
“Absolutely not. Sex slaves are not forbidden by Islam. On the contrary, sex slaves are under a different law than the free woman. The free woman must be completely covered except for her face and hands. But the sex slave can be naked from the waist up. She differs a lot from the free woman. While the free woman requires a marriage contract, the sex slave does not—she only needs to be purchased by her husband, and that’s it. Therefore the sex slave is different than the free woman.” Kuwaiti Activist: "I Hope that Kuwait Will Enact a Law for...Sex Slaves"
Bukhari (62:137) - An account of women taken as slaves in battle by Muhammad's men after their husbands and fathers were killed. The woman were raped with Muhammad's approval.
Bukhari (34:432) - Another account of females taken captive and raped with Muhammad's approval. In this case it is evident that the Muslims intend on selling the women after raping them because they are concerned about devaluing their price by impregnating them. Muhammad is asked about coitus interruptus.
Ibn Ishaq (693) - "Then the apostle sent Sa-d b. Zayd al-Ansari, brother of Abdu'l-Ashal with some of the captive women of Banu Qurayza to Najd and he sold them for horses and weapons." Muhammad trades away women captured from the Banu Qurayza tribe to non-Muslim slave traders for property. (Their men had been executed after surrendering without a fight).
https://www.google.com/search?sourc...s_l=hp....0.0.0.24280...........0.nMHEKXkZ2bU
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Ingledsva
HEATHEN ALASKAN
Within the tribes lineage is by the male - however, - I thought your MOTHER had to be Jewish for you to be born a Jew.
Could one of our Jewish members clarify this? Thanks.
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