You are in hell.
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Could we all be right?
- Thread starter TJ73
- Start date
blackout
Violet.
Unfortunately some people make this world a hell for others.
As well, some people make hells for their own self.
Are you one of those christians who actually feels this world IS intrinsically a hell?
It's a crap mindset. We usually see what we think.
waitasec
Veteran Member
Jacksnyte
Reverend
What I see are people unwilling to have integrity to the system of law and justice that protects individual sovereignty. People want freedom to do all that they desire and freedom from any potential negative consequences. As a consequence of this tendency, people begin to impose a perverted system of justice that enslaves individuals for the collective benefit of the public body.
The role I see that Christians have played in this is they laid the foundation for this trend because their ideology necessitated it. They have preached a heaven of complete bliss with no works required other than to praise the name of some Messiah who is going to make all of this happen. All who simply believe on this Savior can cross any border they please and feast sumptuously at the table, with no works required.
Because of this ideology that puts aside personal responsibility and personal sovereignty, we now have the realization of their ideology manifesting. We are now being forced to pay the price for the actual manifestation of this false utopia.
That's exactly how it works. You won't get it.
McBell
Admiral Obvious
Seems to me your error is in assuming that everyone does...
I take your challenge. I'm in the mood...
Firstly, my OP, like many of them is like art, it holds a different meaning to each person that sees it. I had a metaphysical meaning in mind at the time. I hold an image of an all encompassing God that can hold many simultaneous positions at once and can can inspire different scripture in different cultures and different language that can all at once possess multiple meanings. One line can be taken to hold a cultural, spiritual or political meaning from one person to another or can retain all meaning to another or none at all.
People don't have to pretend to be agreeable. Some of us see the world that way. Not all of us are directly involved in the world stage and that has to be OK, Caladan. I can understand you perspective, your desire and passion for knowledge and mastery of the geo-political world. You and people like you are a necessary element. But don't forget their are multiple elements that we need in the world.
One element that may be necessary or perhaps not are the people that do not see what you see but rather are inclined to see similarities.
In my everyday life, I do not have the luxury of involving myself in all the politcal and religious and cultural affairs that shape the world and even my own local government. I have to work; I have 3 kids to tend to, and educate and employees and customers and I have to have some time to myslef and I have to use the freaking bathroom sometimes, when I have 35 seconds to do so. You know what I mean. And because of that I am grateful that like myslef a lot of people that I encounter are not obsessed with the greater world at large but rather just finding a way to make it rhough the day in peace with themselves and the people around them. We accept being agreeable as a comfortable alternative to strife. We seek a means to identify with each other and the struggle that life, no matter the context, life has for all of us and the joys as well.
I lend some time to thinking, discussing and even occasionally being active in the things that may have an impact on society, but I do not have the luxury of dedicating any large portion of my life to it.
There has to room for all of us. We need archeologists, and soldiers but also, Moms and Dads, musicians, doctors and even lowly dog groomers. Some people are hardwired to be dedicated and focused on particular things like you are and that is wonderful. You bring a perspective,skill set and knowledge. But a lot of us, just have to stick to the "greater jihad" and keep on truckin, not blind, just may be opting for glasses with a little rosier shade.
What do you claim I assume? Everyone does what?
zenzero
Its only a Label
Friend TJ73,
In a stadium everyone is watching a match but each one is in a different space zone for the physical view besides there is the time one as to when the happening got registered by the individual and the coloring of the person his own biases fed since long to respond to the happening, accordingly.
Love & rgds
Yes, always, because there can never be ONE stand point for every individual; each has their own points where they view from.
In a stadium everyone is watching a match but each one is in a different space zone for the physical view besides there is the time one as to when the happening got registered by the individual and the coloring of the person his own biases fed since long to respond to the happening, accordingly.
Love & rgds
Caladan
Agnostic Pantheist
I'm sorry. this is all a mishmash. especially in the kind of society I come from. in which not only is this line of thought frowned upon. but the citizens will commonly show hostility towards this kind of wilful misinformation.
we all live in developed nations. we all have internet connection. we all have all the unlimited access we will ever need for ages to come, of the relevant news pieces, the relevant scientific developments. or any other basic event which takes place in our world.
And after saying that, I obviously can't ignore this single passage:
In the Middle East. and I assume in all other countries around the world. this is akin to signing a death warrant.
in effect it is as if you are willing to hand over the reign over your life, and indeed every detail of your life to the men who do take responsibility. who do read the evening news. or read the news every chance they have. who do study the major and relevant events in the world. who debate all these current events. and work hard to know who's who. who should be taken notice of, who has which resource to offer, who has which security capabilities to offer, who is accomplished in which field.
those men or societies who have established themselves will make sure to rain down brimstone on anyone who makes the uneducated mistake to proclaim that we are all the same, we all have the same drives, the same interests, that we are all correct, and worst of all, that we all see the world through the same eyes.
as these highly skilful segments of the population have for millennia.
Being uninformed of the relevant political affairs around the world has become a major liability for the rest of us, who try to reach moderate success in the modern world, which has become more and more uncompromising.
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Danmac
Well-Known Member
How can two different religions both be true, if they give completely contradicting instructions on how to get to heaven? For instance. How can a suicide bomber kill people in the name of Allah, and be rewarded with martyrdom, 70 virgins, and heaven, while another religion may condemn murder? That would defy the principles that govern correct or reliable would it not?
waitasec
Veteran Member
religions are false... they contradict each other...
they're entirely subjective to human emotion
btw your example of the 70 virgins, from what i hear, is not found in the koran...but maybe found in something that would be the equivalent to the teachings of pat robertson :sarcastic
Tom Terrific
Member
I am definitely not interested in a discussion with someone who has a chip on his shoulder. I will answer the question, but I will not debate it.
You reconcile the distinction by realizing that, whatever else they may be, men are men. Underneath the cultural differences, we are essentially the same; and our divergent opinions are all attempts to achieve satisfaction of the same basic needs.
The differences you speak of may seem deep, but they are superficial nonetheless. The existential alienation felt by the Muslim is no different in its nature than that of the Jew, Christian, Zoroastrian, Hottentot, Yanomamo Indian or atheist.
Forgive me, but you sound as if you see yourself as a victim. Politics deals with the struggle for power and dominance; spirituality operates on a higher level entirely. If you come to a forum with a spiritual orientation, don't be surprised if a lot of the people there are oriented more toward discovering what unites mankind than in emphasizing what separates us, much less fighting for political equality.
I'm not sure what you're referring to by "intellectual bankruptcy," but it is not intellectual bankruptcy to recognize that the intellect has limitations and that there are areas of life where it does not work very well. Many people today seem to think that the intellect is the best tool for every purpose; the man who believes that has either never been married or hasn't learned from the experience. The intellect operates in a world of separation; it requires separation between the thinker and the object of thought in order to function. But spirituality unites beyond the limits of intellect; and maybe that's the best way to answer your question.
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Danmac
Well-Known Member
Pat was a muslim??? That fraud.
"72 Virgins"
The concept of 72 virgins in Islam refers to an aspect of paradise. In a collection by Imam at-Tirmidhi in his "Sunan" (Volume IV, Chapters on "The Features of Heaven as described by the Messenger of Allah", chapter 21: "About the Smallest Reward for the People of Heaven", hadith 2687) and also quoted by Ibn Kathir in his Tafsir (Qur'anic Commentary) of Surah Qur'an 55:72, it is stated that:
"It was mentioned by Daraj Ibn Abi Hatim, that Abu al-Haytham 'Adullah Ibn Wahb narrated from Abu Sa'id al-Khudhri, who heard Muhammad saying, 'The smallest reward for the people of Heaven is an abode where there are eighty thousand servants and seventy-two houri, over which stands a dome decorated with pearls, aquamarine and ruby, as wide as the distance from al-Jabiyyah to San'a.[62]
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sour...sg=AFQjCNEc3OeZPdT_ZEOQSTScsKsmkElcsA&cad=rja
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sour...sg=AFQjCNEc3OeZPdT_ZEOQSTScsKsmkElcsA&cad=rja
waitasec
Veteran Member
but you failed to support your claim that martyrdom is rewarded with 70 virgins...you have supported the notion they have of their reward for being in paradise not for martyrdom.
what do you believe will be waiting for you, other than christ, in heaven?
and is that scripturally supported or interpreted from the likes of a pat robertson...?
Subjectivity is a common aspect of humanity that affects all aspects of life. There are no exclusions, including religion.
As I see it, religion is merely a means or a vehicle to try and address this part of our nature and way of being with one another. And, just like the doctors and staff at a hospital during a contagious outbreak, all those who enter the field to try and deal with our collective ailments are exposed to concentrated measures of it and if care is not taken they could actually succumb and begin to further it rather than address it healthily.
To properly value a religion, its pure and original principles must be carefully constructed into a whole and evaluated based upon a society of people living its principles unmolested by foreign influences and to see if it would work or not.
Using this method of evaluation of a religion separates away the abuse and mockery most human beings tend to heap on top of the pure foundation. Can you say a flock is evil because wolves have been drawn in among them?
waitasec
Veteran Member
then religion's purpose is to provide comfort to the unstoppable force of the inevitable indifference of life...
Caladan
Agnostic Pantheist
This is complete and utter 60's American BS.
I come from a family which is from German descent and from North African descent. the two segment of this family have nothing similar with each other.
really. zero. nothing at all that I can think of.
You people live in the twilight zone that masses of young Americans were stuck in. while thousands of American troops were struggling to survive the mosquito infested jungles of Southeast Asia.
It's time to grow up. and I mean it. for the sake of the rest of us in the developed world.
Hardly. if you ever watch the news. I am considered top dog. if we are to believe the critics, the politicians and the media.
the rest of you on the other hand. seem to be the victims. who complain about human rights you have no concept of.
Oh boy. I should have been warned before hand this is what you are trying to say.
'Spirituality', 'higher level'. operates? I have no idea how you nailed that word into this New Age rubbish.
You want to live in the 60's? in the golden years of the flower children. by all means.
Let the rest of us stick to the petroleum.
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That's part of its purpose. I don't consider the forces at play within us as unstoppable. The question is what laws have governance in this domain and how can desired results be obtained. Force can only work in a temporary and rather short-term manner. It should never be relied upon as the ultimate solution in this domain of things.
There is a significant risk involved in undertaking things in a religious, political, spiritual, etc. domain. If force is used inappropriately, there are inescapable consequences attached to that. If you take away the agency of others then your agency is taken away from you. The law of the harvest is inescapable. You reap what you sow.
In the case of the religion of my upbringing (LDS), there is a very solemn and serious oath and covenant associated with being entrusted with the Melchizedek Priesthood. This is the level of authority to administer the Law of Moses implemented on the spiritual level. It's sole purpose and source of power comes from the subtle forces that cannot be handled or controlled except by pursuasion, gentleness and meekness and pure love. As soon as a man, leader, husband, etc. tries to use priesthood in an authoritarian manner by way of exercising unrighteous dominion, they lose any power in the priesthood. In practical terms, they loose the basis upon which an individual will willingly and healthily honor them in their station of responsibility. When priesthood power is lost, then the husband, leader, etc. must resort to devices of manipulation and control to compensate for that loss of natural affection and willing submission. A religious body as a whole, if it is a pure and correct one, shall only seek to influence using non-compulsory means. As soon as a religion becomes oppressive in terms of not upholding and honoring the constitutional principles upon which it is based, it transforms into a sickly body that has no true priesthood authority. Sadly, in many ways, this has occurred to the religion I was brought up in. Thus, I have to admit to the veracity of people's legitimate grievances against it. The reason there is so much conflict and strife in the various religious bodies is because people have fallen away from the pure principles they were founded upon.
So, as I have said in my earlier remarks, the apparent contradictions that exist in Abrahamic religions are not due to the source being schitzo but rather that the people have perverted things into a mess.