Could we all be right?

[PolyHedral]

Presumably jbug doesn't mind being judged.

 

[waitasec]

There is no absolute prohibition on judging others. Where on earth do you come up with that idea? When we judge things, as there is no way around doing so, we must be sure to judge righteous judgment. At some point I will make my own investigation of the Bahai faith beyond what I have already done. I wouldn't have said what I did if I didn't have enough knowledge behind it. Now, if you want to challenge me about this further, start a new thread instead of filling up this thread with the clutter that is sure to follow.

he who has no sin cast the 1st stone...


what does that mean to you?

 

[McBell]

As ever, your are most welcome to your fantasies!

As for me, I hope:


MATTHEW 7:1

"Judge not, that ye be not judged."



Bruce

:biglaugh:

 

[waitasec]

:biglaugh:

i'm flabbergasted....

 

[McBell]

i'm flabbergasted....

At what:

His taking a verse completely out of context in order to further his own agenda?
My finding his taking a verse out of context hilarious?
That he perhaps honestly believes the verse he provided supports his position?

​

 

[waitasec]

At what:

His taking a verse completely out of context in order to further his own agenda?
My finding his taking a verse out of context hilarious?
That he perhaps honestly believes the verse he provided supports his position?

​

i love volleyball, don't you?

 

[kylixguru]

Presumably jbug doesn't mind being judged.

I don't mind being judged if the judgment is performed in righteousness. We all have to judge many things.

 

[kylixguru]

As ever, your are most welcome to your fantasies!

As for me, I hope:


MATTHEW 7:1

"Judge not, that ye be not judged."



Bruce

The FULL context of this passage is required or you will get caught up in a fantasy.

The message here is if you judge something unrighteously or in hypocrisy then you are dealing with a beam in your own eye and are worthy of whatever condemnation you think belongs to another. Thus, great care must be taken when casting judgment. This doesn't mean a person cannot perform judgment at all. In fact, Jesus tells how to perform correct judgment.

Matthew 7:5:
...first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.
​

As I said before, that which I understand to be the spiritual resurrection was not given to the Bahai Faith in a full measure. My vision on this is very clear. I welcome being challenged on this point, but this thread is not the setting for that discussion.

 

[Tom Terrific]

It can be a lot to think about but suppose...
At some point we are somehow informed, we have a simultaneous revelation or epiphany that we are right. All forms of belief are correct. I think it is possible.
That we could find out that yes, the universe is full of love and hate, good and bad. The choices available can be both right and wrong.
That the different manifestations thought to be God, all are. All scripture is also true and the only thing that changes is perspective. And even atheism is correct in that everything is everything and always has been and it is OK to call God or not.
It's hard to get this out in any sensible manner, but I swear it looks right swirling around in my head.

We are all searching for meaning. Not only do our grasps of that meaning differ from each other's, our own understandings change as we make our ways through life.

If you look at truth in terms of propositions about reality, then everyone is wrong in what they believe because no one grasps the Big Picture. But if you look at truth in terms of the search for meaning, then everyone is right because the search is what's important. In other words, it isn't what we believe about reality that is right or wrong, but rather it is *we* who are right or wrong -- and that's a matter of whether we are living our lives in pursuit or in abandonment of that meaning.

Thus, the Christian and the atheist may both be right -- not because of what they believe, but because of how they approach their lives.

If you want to see how this principle is applied within a belief system, I think Catholicism teaches that despair is a mortal sin; in fact, I think one of their theologians, St. Thomas Aquinas, may have taught that it is the most grievous of sins. Despair is essentially the abandonment of meaning in life.

 

[Caladan]

It can be a lot to think about but suppose...
At some point we are somehow informed, we have a simultaneous revelation or epiphany that we are right. All forms of belief are correct. I think it is possible.
That we could find out that yes, the universe is full of love and hate, good and bad. The choices available can be both right and wrong.
That the different manifestations thought to be God, all are. All scripture is also true and the only thing that changes is perspective. And even atheism is correct in that everything is everything and always has been and it is OK to call God or not.
It's hard to get this out in any sensible manner, but I swear it looks right swirling around in my head.

I am amazed that not a single member has taken on himself or herself the challenge I posed to the original post. and instead half of you celebrate just how agreeable you all are. perhaps, just that so you can wake up for another day, ignore all the harsh disagreements and strife in the political world, which effect the rest of us. and tell yourself that the sun is still up there, and since we can all see it is up there. we must all agree on all the knowledge of our solar system.
So really, when are the rest of you are going to confront the major events in the world?
instead of pretending how agreeable we all are. when it is evident that many of us who have not been living in Europe or North America. already know on our flesh that we are not. and to deny this could not be further from the truth as Venus is from Mars.

I think that all forms of beliefs are wrong. by default. because they are mere beliefs.
beliefs about what another man has said. beliefs about what a religious leader explained to us about the scriptures. beliefs about the scriptures. beliefs about the political reality around us.
experience, on the other hand. defies all beliefs. and even then it means you only need to work on regular basis to gain more experience and perfect your distinct and chosen beliefs. and if you are good enough. usually these beliefs will be challenged the next day.
which is by far the most healthy option for any normal society. in a communal existence where everyone agrees with everyone on everything. you get a colony of blind termites, who like in nature, feed on the empty shell of dead organism or plants.
while a healthy community, would have strong individuals who not only love to argue, but have a strong urgency to do so, in order to 'get to the bottom' of the political affairs around them, and to conjure a viable political solution, or action.
this is why I usually hold to my mind the distinction that I make between ants and termites. ants would boldly travel for miles outside their colony under the uncompromising sun, and would fiercely disagree with any creature on their way. while the termites cannot withstand the sun or survive without their colony. this whole time the ant, even when travelling far in its search for food will find its way back to its colony, and not only that but would bring a prize 6 times its body weight.

If even insects. the most dominating body of species on our planet is at constant war with each other, and for millions of years engage in battles for survival. ranging from the use of chemical weapons, to slavery.
How can we even reconcile for example. the distinction between eastern men and men from the developed world. or eastern religion, and the dying patriarchy of the west?
these are different breeds of cultures, and religions. why would we eliminate them with pretending that they all say the same, while obviously they were all bred out of different geographical locations. why would we bend and reshape their philosophies against everything that reality tells us, just so we can excuse ourselves from observing and engaging the disagreements and differences between people. and perhaps God forbid. come to appreciate it on occasion. instead of trying to reconcile ourselves into an intellectual bankruptcy.
I am definitely not aspiring to conform to the political understanding of other men. especially when so many of them lack the direct experience stretching years into my own personal history and the history that my culture has with some of the most widely debated political issues and current events.

 

[BruceDLimber]

[T]hat which I understand to be the spiritual resurrection was not given to the Bahai Faith in a full measure.

More assertion without evidence, and therefore nothing meriting concern!

If you care to back this up in another thread, feel free; but until then it carries zero significance.

Bruce

 

[blackout]

Perhaps "being right", isn't really so important.

or even possible.

 

[kylixguru]

More assertion without evidence, and therefore nothing meriting concern!

If you care to back this up in another thread, feel free; but until then it carries zero significance.

This thread isn't the place to put the evidence. Feel free to participate in this thread if you like: http://www.religiousforums.com/foru...2547-bahai-faith-talks-about-what-needed.html

 

[kylixguru]

Perhaps "being right", isn't really so important.

or even possible.

Being founded upon truth and reality is definitely important, but it isn't all important. Being "right" alone is not enough. I like to remind myself that a person can be "right" all the way to hell. What we need is to be right as well as to have a pure and loving spirit that is patient and long-suffering in order to respect every individuals "right" to reach their own personal conclusions about things.

 

[Caladan]

What we need is to be right as well as to have a pure and loving spirit that is patient and long-suffering in order to respect every individuals "right" to reach their own personal conclusions about things.

Evidently you fail your acid test miserably whenever someone of greater education challenges your views. which greatly projects on the qualities of your truth or your patience.
the purity, however. you can keep.

 

[kylixguru]

Evidently you fail your acid test miserably whenever someone of greater education challenges your views. which greatly projects on the qualities of your truth or your patience.
the purity, however. you can keep.

I do fail at times to have the patience and long-suffering I aspire to have. For this I do apologize and ask forgiveness.

Your education does not impress me. You only seem to regard holy writ as it is convenient and dismiss anything that doesn't fit your mode or agenda.

 

[Caladan]

I do fail at times to have the patience and long-suffering I aspire to have. For this I do apologize and ask forgiveness.

Really? now that is one interesting observation.

Your education does not impress me. You only seem to regard holy writ as it is convenient and dismiss anything that doesn't fit your mode or agenda.

Well. Duh.

 

[blackout]

Being founded upon truth and reality is definitely important, but it isn't all important. Being "right" alone is not enough. I like to remind myself that a person can be "right" all the way to hell. What we need is to be right as well as to have a pure and loving spirit that is patient and long-suffering in order to respect every individuals "right" to reach their own personal conclusions about things.

Of course this is just your version of "right".
eh.
I'm not into long suffering.
Actually, I"m not into suffering at all.
not long suffering. not short suffering.

I'll be right or wrong all the way to 'no hell'.
(pst... there is no hell. I'm the right one here. trust me.)

 

[blackout]

Evidently you fail your acid test miserably whenever someone of greater education challenges your views. which greatly projects on the qualities of your truth or your patience.
the purity, however. you can keep.

Ooop! Missed the purity bit there.

he can have my portion of that as well.

 

[kylixguru]

Ooop! Missed the purity bit there.

he can have my portion of that as well.

Being pure in heart simply means you have integrity in your devotions, whatever you profess them to be. If you willfully are morally impure and you are honest about it, which it appears you are, then you have not escaped the purity of which I speak. However, you do not escape the natural consequences of your impure morals even if you are honest about them. But, the benefits of being pure in your devotions is certainly a plus.