Could we all be right?

[waitasec]

So sorry, but you couldn't be more wrong!

I refer you to this site for the details:

Click on one of the following to navigate further down this page Religious Unity


Bruce

i'm sorry but you'll have to explain what that was
just give me some examples of what has been historically... proven as empirical evidence, for any prophesies that have been fulfilled...

 

[BruceDLimber]

We will await the resurrection in spirit form, but the definition of the word "resurrect" is "to become alive again." It's the body that dies, not the spirit, so it would have to be the body that is resurrected, or given new life.

Not so, in fact! I quote:

"According to the Bahá'í teaching the Resurrection has nothing to do with the gross physical body. That body, once dead, is done with. It becomes decomposed and its atoms will never be recomposed into the same body.

"Resurrection is the birth of the individual to spiritual life, through the gift of the Holy Spirit bestowed through the Manifestation of God. The grave from which he arises is the grave of ignorance and negligence of God. The sleep from which he awakens is the dormant spiritual condition in which many await the dawn of the Day of God. This dawn illumines all who have lived on the face of the earth, whether they are in the body or out of the body, but those who are spiritually blind cannot perceive it. The Day of Resurrection is not a day of twenty-four hours, but an era which has now begun...."
―(Baha'u'llah and the New Era, p. 222)

Peace,

Bruce

 

[chinu]

Could we all be right?

Yes.
_/\_
Chinu

 

[kylixguru]

Not so, in fact! I quote:

"According to the Bahá'í teaching the Resurrection has nothing to do with the gross physical body. That body, once dead, is done with. It becomes decomposed and its atoms will never be recomposed into the same body.

"Resurrection is the birth of the individual to spiritual life, through the gift of the Holy Spirit bestowed through the Manifestation of God. The grave from which he arises is the grave of ignorance and negligence of God. The sleep from which he awakens is the dormant spiritual condition in which many await the dawn of the Day of God. This dawn illumines all who have lived on the face of the earth, whether they are in the body or out of the body, but those who are spiritually blind cannot perceive it. The Day of Resurrection is not a day of twenty-four hours, but an era which has now begun...."
―(Baha'u'llah and the New Era, p. 222)

Peace,

Bruce

The Mormon's who were given resurrection take it for granted and knew it not, but looked for something else.
The Bahai talk about it in a correct manner, but never received it. Not at its fullness anyway.

Oh the irony!

 

[Katzpur]

Not so, in fact! I quote:

"According to the Bahá'í teaching the Resurrection has nothing to do with the gross physical body. That body, once dead, is done with. It becomes decomposed and its atoms will never be recomposed into the same body.

"Resurrection is the birth of the individual to spiritual life, through the gift of the Holy Spirit bestowed through the Manifestation of God. The grave from which he arises is the grave of ignorance and negligence of God. The sleep from which he awakens is the dormant spiritual condition in which many await the dawn of the Day of God. This dawn illumines all who have lived on the face of the earth, whether they are in the body or out of the body, but those who are spiritually blind cannot perceive it. The Day of Resurrection is not a day of twenty-four hours, but an era which has now begun...."
―(Baha'u'llah and the New Era, p. 222)

Peace,

Bruce

Well, that's interesting, but you're speaking from the Baha'i perspective and using Baha'i scriptures. I'm speaking from the Christian perspective and using Christian scriptures. It's understandable that we would see it differently.

 

[Katzpur]

so your belief is what exactly, that everyone will be reunited...non believers and believers?

I'm not sure whether you're asking me if (#1) everyone will have their spirit and their physical body reunited or whether (#2) everyone will be reunited with their loved ones. If you meant #1, yes, everyone will be physically resurrected and receive a new, immortal body. If you meant #2, I believe it's entirely possible that both believers and non-believers will recognize friends and relatives from this life. Familial relationships will only continue to exist in the afterlife if they have been "sealed" in this life -- which is what we LDS do in our temples.

what does your belief say about god..is god a physical being and spiritual being?

We believe that God is spirit (spirit meaning "life source") clothed in an immortal body of flesh and bones.

 

[waitasec]

I'm not sure whether you're asking me if (#1) everyone will have their spirit and their physical body reunited or whether (#2) everyone will be reunited with their loved ones. If you meant #1, yes, everyone will be physically resurrected and receive a new, immortal body. If you meant #2, I believe it's entirely possible that both believers and non-believers will recognize friends and relatives from this life. Familial relationships will only continue to exist in the afterlife if they have been "sealed" in this life -- which is what we LDS do in our temples.

i understand that your belief is that everyone will resurrect, but what i do not understand is how can a mother reconcile her sons eternal consequence if he was not sealed in this life...while in the company of those that were.

We believe that God is spirit (spirit meaning "life source") clothed in an immortal body of flesh and bones.

do you believe god is a physical being here on earth?

 

[Jacksnyte]

In other words, say both Allah and Krishna exist. Would both Muslims and Hindus be right? Well, not really. Many Muslims claim that Allah is the only god, so they would be partially wrong. Hindus may acknowledge the existence of various gods, but would reject the notion that the Qur'an is the ultimate and complete word from god. And if either of these gods exist, then atheists did not have a correct view of the world either, because they didn't believe in any gods yet all gods do exist.

And if a subset of Christians claims that only Jesus can lead to salvation, but it turns out that the Noble Eightfold Path of Buddhism can lead to salvation too, then this subset was partially incorrect.

Basically, because many religions (and non-religious philosophies) make objective claims regarding the universe, and a lot of them logically contradict, they inevitably cannot all be correct. Some will inevitably be more or less accurate than others.


But they could all be right. Krishna/Allah could be the same and just a means of communicating a fundamental truth. If you believe in the salvation through Jesus, then it is the only way, unless you follow the Eightfold path which is the way. And those who do not need salvation and do not believe in afterlife just cease. May be we can all be a little wrong and all be a little right. I dunno. Just thinking.....

All paths leading up the same mountain, IMO

 

[Katzpur]

i understand that your belief is that everyone will resurrect, but what i do not understand is how can a mother reconcile her sons eternal consequence if he was not sealed in this life...while in the company of those that were.

Okay, I see what you're asking. That's a good question. She can't. But several statements from the LDS leadership over the years have promised parents of "wayward" children that if they (i.e. the parents) remain faithful in keeping the covenants they made with God in the temple, their kids will eventually come around (either in this life or in the post-mortal spirit life -- before they are resurrected and stand before God to be judged). Personally, I'm resting a lot of hope on these promises since I have two grown children in this position right now.

do you believe god is a physical being here on earth?

No, we believe He is "in Heaven," as is noted in the Bible many times. His power extends over the entire universe, though.

 

[EmpiricalAgnosticAtheist]

It can be a lot to think about but suppose...
At some point we are somehow informed, we have a simultaneous revelation or epiphany that we are right. All forms of belief are correct. I think it is possible.
That we could find out that yes, the universe is full of love and hate, good and bad. The choices available can be both right and wrong.
That the different manifestations thought to be God, all are. All scripture is also true and the only thing that changes is perspective. And even atheism is correct in that everything is everything and always has been and it is OK to call God or not.
It's hard to get this out in any sensible manner, but I swear it looks right swirling around in my head.

No, it's not possible for all ideologies to be correct, because they are largely conflicting, and have opposite stances on many key issues. However, if what you're trying to say is that belief in and of itself makes something real, then you're right in a sense.

I will say though, there are some things that are categorically immoral, which different religions are in favor of. Murdering/ opressing those of dissenting opinions, facilitating child molestation, fostering ignorance/ discouraging scientific & logical progress, and so forth are all despicable things to do.

Just my 2 cents.

 

[Breathe]

If one religion states that people live once, and are judged, and need salvation by an external deity, then it's drastically different from a religion that says we live in the cycle of samsara, and that ultimately gods are irrelevant and we must self-liberate. One or both claims are largely incorrect or drastically, drastically incomplete.

Good job I syncretise from a particular religious family, then.

 

[Penumbra]

Good job I syncretise from a particular religious family, then.

As long as you drop ones that don't fit in with your whole picture, it doesn't lead to a problem. I have observed on this forum that you seem to not include the Abrahamic religions in your perspective, incorporating the Dharmic ones only.

The problem comes when people try to force religions to fit together, like trying to fit square pegs through round holes.

 

[BruceDLimber]

The Bahai talk about it in a correct manner, but never received it.

You have NO IDEA what Baha'is have or haven't "received," and are in any case violating the prohibition on judging others!


Bruce

 

[chinu]

You have NO IDEA what Baha'is have or haven't "received," and are in any case violating the prohibition on judging oth ers!


Bruce

Get "Idea"

_/\_
Chinu

 

[Breathe]

As long as you drop ones that don't fit in with your whole picture, it doesn't lead to a problem. I have observed on this forum that you seem to not include the Abrahamic religions in your perspective, incorporating the Dharmic ones only.

Yep, that's me. Buddhism [with an unorthodox opinion], Sikhism and Hinduism. Worked well so far.

The problem comes when people try to force religions to fit together, like trying to fit square pegs through round holes.

True, very true. Afterlife can't be both reincarnation and one life only. However, I've found that most who do syncretise majorly different (non-related) religions tend to prefer one type to another anyway.

 

[kylixguru]

You have NO IDEA what Baha'is have or haven't "received," and are in any case violating the prohibition on judging others!


Bruce

There is no absolute prohibition on judging others. Where on earth do you come up with that idea? When we judge things, as there is no way around doing so, we must be sure to judge righteous judgment. At some point I will make my own investigation of the Bahai faith beyond what I have already done. I wouldn't have said what I did if I didn't have enough knowledge behind it. Now, if you want to challenge me about this further, start a new thread instead of filling up this thread with the clutter that is sure to follow.

 

[McBell]

You have NO IDEA what Baha'is have or haven't "received," and are in any case violating the prohibition on judging others!


Bruce

What "prohibition on judging others"?

Hells Bells, dude, the Bible is an instruction book on how to righteously judge others.

 

[waitasec]

Okay, I see what you're asking. That's a good question. She can't. But several statements from the LDS leadership over the years have promised parents of "wayward" children that if they (i.e. the parents) remain faithful in keeping the covenants they made with God in the temple, their kids will eventually come around (either in this life or in the post-mortal spirit life -- before they are resurrected and stand before God to be judged). Personally, I'm resting a lot of hope on these promises since I have two grown children in this position right now.

the catholic church used purgatory for children who died without being baptized and claimed a soul can be prayed out of it. and i believe just relatively recently they changed their doctrine because it wasn't scripturally supported.

who are the LDS leadership? do they have the authority to
make amendments to scripture...is this doctrine found in the BoM?

No, we believe He is "in Heaven," as is noted in the Bible many times. His power extends over the entire universe, though.

then you believe god is physical being in space? i'm not sure what heaven is if it a place where physical beings can exist...do they breath eat....?

 

[Jacksnyte]

It can be a lot to think about but suppose...
At some point we are somehow informed, we have a simultaneous revelation or epiphany that we are right. All forms of belief are correct. I think it is possible.
That we could find out that yes, the universe is full of love and hate, good and bad. The choices available can be both right and wrong.
That the different manifestations thought to be God, all are. All scripture is also true and the only thing that changes is perspective. And even atheism is correct in that everything is everything and always has been and it is OK to call God or not.
It's hard to get this out in any sensible manner, but I swear it looks right swirling around in my head.

:yes:

 

[BruceDLimber]

There is no absolute prohibition on judging others.

As ever, your are most welcome to your fantasies!

As for me, I hope:


MATTHEW 7:1

"Judge not, that ye be not judged."



Bruce