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Could we all be right?

TJ73

Active Member
I'm sorry. this is all a mishmash. especially in the kind of society I come from. in which not only is this line of thought frowned upon. but the citizens will commonly show hostility towards this kind of wilful misinformation.
we all live in developed nations. we all have internet connection. we all have all the unlimited access we will ever need for ages to come, of the relevant news pieces, the relevant scientific developments. or any other basic event which takes place in our world.

And after saying that, I obviously can't ignore this single passage:


In the Middle East. and I assume in all other countries around the world. this is akin to signing a death warrant.
in effect it is as if you are willing to hand over the reign over your life, and indeed every detail of your life to the men who do take responsibility. who do read the evening news. or read the news every chance they have. who do study the major and relevant events in the world. who debate all these current events. and work hard to know who's who. who should be taken notice of, who has which resource to offer, who has which security capabilities to offer, who is accomplished in which field.
those men or societies who have established themselves will make sure to rain down brimstone on anyone who makes the uneducated mistake to proclaim that we are all the same, we all have the same drives, the same interests, that we are all correct, and worst of all, that we all see the world through the same eyes.
as these highly skilful segments of the population have for millennia.
Being uninformed of the relevant political affairs around the world has become a major liability for the rest of us, who try to reach moderate success in the modern world, which has become more and more uncompromising.

Your comments are ridiculous. I have listened to you say the same junk repeatedly, in practically every post you make, weather it is relevant to the topic or not, you always go back to the same thing. You assume the entire world is just like Israel, or should be, we should all be soldiers, atheists, have a strong cultural identity deeply ingrained from our history.

I never said I don't read the newspaper or that I don't know what is going on in the world, now did I?
But your desire to contradict what anyone says is so strong you don't even take a moment to think about what was said. Not a good trait. But, like I said, it takes all kinds. AS much as I may disagree with you on some things, the world still needs people that are dedicated to the things you are dedicated to, but not only those things, you get it?

Stop over to the states for a while and get a clue about how other people live. By in large we come from extraordinarily diverse backgrounds and despite what is said on TV and in the papers or reported to you in England and Israel, we get along pretty fine. Sure we have our opinions and we have our distinct cultures, but we get along for the most part. We have our pockets of intolerance, but most people are not faced with outrageous challenges daily.We work hard, most of us and we do what people have done for all of history, when we are not directly involved in protecting our lives, we live. we work and feed out families and we live. We have our soldiers and our politicians and our big makers of moves, but we also have to have people that keep the store open and the kids tended to in the mean time.

Are you seeking some kind of award? Do you lack some recognition for what you do? Are you bitter that some people don't feel compelled to find all the importance in what turns you on?

Fortunately I don't live in a place where living my life is like signing a death warrant. May be if people like those you speak of would lighten the heck up a bit and not feel so inclined to see everyone fit in the same box you wouldn't have so much BS going on and the rest of the world could exhale for a minute. How much accolade do you need personally and for your country?

No matter what you claim there is nothing wrong with people holding other things important other than what you are interested in.
 

Caladan

Agnostic Pantheist
Your comments are ridiculous. I have listened to you say the same junk repeatedly
And there you have it.

Denial can be an ugly thing.

Obviously you have just proved:

1. that not only we strongly disagree with each other and see the world through different eyes.
2. you cannot bear the fact that a man disagrees with you, and cannot contain yourself from using the terms 'ridiculous' and 'junk' to describe your disagreement.

there go your mighty spiritual values down the drain.
I am sure that has happened quite alot.
in practically every post you make, weather it is relevant to the topic or not, you always go back to the same thing. You assume the entire world is just like Israel, or should be, we should all be soldiers, atheists, have a strong cultural identity deeply ingrained from our history.
Obviously. you have not understood anything about Israel.
You think 'everyone is right', but pose the uneducated assumption that everyone in Israel are atheist.
you did understand one thing though. its time for some people around the world to start working with their contemporary history. instead of working on strong revisionism of Islamic or Judeo long history. we already know the terrible creature North America and Britain and Western Europe before them have spawned from the Eastern religions. its rough having to see what's left of your lineage being ripped to shreds by uneducated people, the 'New Agers', the 'progressive' crowd, the pacifists who have never encounter a Mujahideen or a Fedayeen.

Again. you prove that you wilfully remain in the bliss of ignorance, and would repeat yourself the mantra that we are all the same.
While your Muslim brethern fight and struggle against each other in the battles of the middle east, as they have for decades and decades in the modern era, and while thousands and sometimes millions of Muslims would die as a result of these wars over strong disagreements. but you can still tell yourself that we are all right.
well you know what? evidently everyone DO think they are right. the Iraqis believed they are right when they attacked Iran, the Iranians believed they were right when they sent thousands and thousands of human waves with no military training to hold the advancing Iraqis. the Palestinians think they are right when they try to strike Israeli towns and the Israelis believe they are right when they close on the Palestinians even more than before in order to prevent this from happening.

You are doing damage to Islamic theology.
I have no idea why call yourself Muslim to begin with if you are struggling against what the majority of the Muslim world believes and thinks.
 
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Pegg

Jehovah our God is One
It can be a lot to think about but suppose...
At some point we are somehow informed, we have a simultaneous revelation or epiphany that we are right. All forms of belief are correct. I think it is possible.
That we could find out that yes, the universe is full of love and hate, good and bad. The choices available can be both right and wrong.
That the different manifestations thought to be God, all are. All scripture is also true and the only thing that changes is perspective. And even atheism is correct in that everything is everything and always has been and it is OK to call God or not.
It's hard to get this out in any sensible manner, but I swear it looks right swirling around in my head.

so is God black or white?

some say black, others say white... if the truth is somewhere in between, and God is actually Grey, then neither black nor white is the correct answer

there is absolute truth...there has to be.
 

Caladan

Agnostic Pantheist
Bottom line, what is it that everyone wants?
(putting all other things aside)

and is it the same.
Do you really believe that Vi?

Do you really believe for example and I'm leaving aside the cultural and geopolitical world. that all members on this forum want the same for themselves?

All of us have debated here, sometimes for hours, whether we want children or want to lead life without children, whether we desire monogamy, polygamy, or polyamory.
whether we want a life of complete freedom, or a life devoted to a saviour, whether we want pacifism to prevail or whether we want to make our way in the world as it is.
 
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blackout

Violet.
It seems to me
as if the world/reality becomes for people
what they think it is. What they (personally) see it as.
They evidence what they think/they see
but then confuse their subjective perspective
for some "greater truth",
when the only real truth there is, is
"the world 'becomes' for people, as they see and think".


Of course this is what I tend to see. and think.
so.......

:D
 
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blackout

Violet.
Do you really believe that Vi?

Do you really believe for example and I'm leaving aside the cultural and geopolitical world. that all members on this forum want the same for themselves?

All of us have debated here, sometimes for hours, whether we want children or want to lead life without children, whether we desire monogamy, polygamy, or polyamory.
whether we want a life of complete freedom, or a life devoted to a saviour, whether we want pacifism to prevail or whether we want to make our way in the world as it is.

I was simply asking a question Dan.

(...that I do "believe" was both leading... and loaded...)

...and I think you've answered it.

:cover:

(I was actually wondering if that question
would make a good thread,
while I was typing it.)
 
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blackout

Violet.
Most people would say they want happiness/fulfillment/freedom
and happiness/fulfillment/freedom for all people,
but they do not ACTUALIZE what they say they want
in relational reality.

Actions often speak of truths that lips lie about.
 
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blackout

Violet.
Most people would say they want happiness/fulfillment/freedom
and happiness/fulfillment/freedom for all people,
but they do not ACTUALIZE what they say they want
in relational reality.

But then many people would not say that at all.

... and for all different reasons, and in all different contexts...
 

TJ73

Active Member
And there you have it.

Denial can be an ugly thing.

Obviously you have just proved:

1. that not only we strongly disagree with each other and see the world through different eyes.
2. you cannot bear the fact that a man disagrees with you, and cannot contain yourself from using the terms 'ridiculous' and 'junk' to describe your disagreement.

there go your mighty spiritual values down the drain.
I am sure that has happened quite alot.

1. True, but I at least have the ability to recognize how people can come to such different views and respect them and see the value in different views, where as you are totally closed minded and want everyone to think like you, if they are to deserve any respect.
2. I can easily handle being disagreed with by a man a woman or even a child. I even welcome it. You can learn something from opposing views, another talent you espouse yet rarely display. Rather it is you who appear to have difficulty with disagreement, to the point you make ridiculous, repetitive comments in retort. Don't dish it if you cant take it. I would normally refrain from responding in the manner I have to you, but this is what you put out so I thought you might like some back.


Obviously. you have not understood anything about Israel.
You think 'everyone is right', but pose the uneducated assumption that everyone in Israel are atheist.

Yet again you do not read or do not understand what was written. I never ever said I think everyone in Israel is atheist. But you seem to lack any respect or understanding of anyone who is not like you. I reread and perhaps I was not clear. Those were all different identifications you seem to admire, being a soldier, being an atheist and you think that all countries in the world have the same outlook as Israel or England, not that they are similar but that's your perspective which is limited.[/quote]

you did understand one thing though. its time for some people around the world to start working with their contemporary history. instead of working on strong revisionism of Islamic or Judeo long history. we already know the terrible creature North America and Britain and Western Europe before them have spawned from the Eastern religions. its rough having to see what's left of your lineage being ripped to shreds by uneducated people, the 'New Agers', the 'progressive' crowd, the pacifists who have never encounter a Mujahideen or a Fedayeen.

Again. you prove that you wilfully remain in the bliss of ignorance, and would repeat yourself the mantra that we are all the same.
While your Muslim brethern fight and struggle against each other in the battles of the middle east, as they have for decades and decades in the modern era, and while thousands and sometimes millions of Muslims would die as a result of these wars over strong disagreements. but you can still tell yourself that we are all right.
well you know what? evidently everyone DO think they are right. the Iraqis believed they are right when they attacked Iran, the Iranians believed they were right when they sent thousands and thousands of human waves with no military training to hold the advancing Iraqis. the Palestinians think they are right when they try to strike Israeli towns and the Israelis believe they are right when they close on the Palestinians even more than before in order to prevent this from happening.

You are doing damage to Islamic theology.
I have no idea why call yourself Muslim to begin with if you are struggling against what the majority of the Muslim world believes and thinks.


What you fail to understand is that history is constantly in the making. Culture is always in the making, so is religion and boarders and all the stuff you think is stuck in time. We learn from history, we ignore history , we even revise history, but time will always keep moving and people will with it. Get used to it. Part of what changes things is exposure. People learn new ideas and add something from themselves, too bad if you don't like it, that's the way it has been and will always be.You think all Muslims/Jew/Chrisitians are they way they were at the birth of their history. I mean, really, your an archeologist, you know how fast cultural ideas, religious and non religious spread all over the world since ancient times. People have been sharing and adding to and incorporating aspects of foreign cultures for all of human history.YOU OF ALL PEOPLE MUST KNOW THAT.
I'm sure my view of Islam will be rejected by plenty other Muslims, and? You think you're the poster child of Israel? Your entire country has one tight little box that everyone is forced into? If so, what a shame, but I doubt it is so.

You pretend that you don't understand the context of my OP. It was in direct opposition to the same old stuff you responded with about this political force and that one. It was about in the end, "what if" we all somehow discovered we are all right, therefore all the fighting and disagreement was in vain.

Does your finger ever get tired? You point it at everyone and speak from the same play book at every opportunity. Maybe if you had the freedom to come out of your tight box view of the world you would better understand how other people think.:rainbow1:
 

wesley

New Member
well, i think that, it has nothing to du with what one believes, but has to do with the fact that when you believe in something no matter what it is, you are creating your own reality. I abserve life to be a field of existance that is governed by laws that allow us to realise that we are the creator of our own reality, that we are one with the creator, that we are co-creating with all life. So, no matter what you believe, everyone will be lead to the same Truth, that you are making it up, and that's when magic happens, that's enlightenment, whatever you choose to call it. And when this realization comes to you, you are bound create heaven, love, bliss etc...'cause that who we really are in essence.so whether right or wrong, we are the truth, it lies within.
 

Caladan

Agnostic Pantheist
I know.
Because after reading the Qur'an cover to cover several times. and analyzing the relevant ayats and surahs.
I want to know how you reconcile such passages in the Qur'an which teaches and indeed order Muslims not to take allies from the Jews and the Christians.
and indeed teaches that the Christians have by far corrupted the authentic belief in god, the asli monotheism.

we can then begin to explore the various other Islamic teachings which describe that Muslims need to always view the world as Dar al-Islam and Dar al-Harb.
from there we can move to the other vitals of Islam then.
 
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Orias

Left Hand Path
It can be a lot to think about but suppose...
At some point we are somehow informed, we have a simultaneous revelation or epiphany that we are right. All forms of belief are correct. I think it is possible.
That we could find out that yes, the universe is full of love and hate, good and bad. The choices available can be both right and wrong.
That the different manifestations thought to be God, all are. All scripture is also true and the only thing that changes is perspective. And even atheism is correct in that everything is everything and always has been and it is OK to call God or not.
It's hard to get this out in any sensible manner, but I swear it looks right swirling around in my head.

I agree with you this much :D

(dashed line represents level of agreeance)

|-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------(It just keeps going)---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| (It had to end somewheres, YAY! :clap)
 

kylixguru

Well-Known Member
I agree with you this much :D

(dashed line represents level of agreeance)

|-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------(It just keeps going)---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| (It had to end somewheres, YAY! :clap)
I'll add my applause too! :clap
 

TJ73

Active Member
Thanks you both. I the answers about reconciliation and the obvious discordance of many different scripture. I didn't blindly make the premise. I think those that agreed may have done so because they perhaps have a similar idea that God being all powerful and all capable could have designed the scriptures with such deep meaning that they could somehow be tied together in a way you wouldn't expect, or wouldn't readily recognize. Anyway, thanks for all the responses.
 
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