Couldn't have said it better myself...

[Wildswanderer]

Gratz on that marvelous realization.

Meanwhile, it's still populations that evolve, not individuals.
I'm so sorry that you can't seem to grasp the very basics of the mechanics of biological evolution.

If the individual is not different from a previous individual nothing changes.

 

[Guitar's Cry]

In what sense are you using the word plenty? Not in a relative sense, surely. The number of churches that teach a doctrine that could even be contorted into anything resembling this is going to be minuscule. Exceedingly liberally, you'll be under 1%. I actually wouldn't be surprised, given how strongly it is stated and restated in the New Testament, if there were an absolute zero of churches that teach that Christians are "good" and will be rewarded for being "good" in heaven, compared to non-believers who are bad.

From the Catholic Catechism:

'Jesus solemnly proclaims that he "will send his angels, and they will gather. . . all evil doers, and throw them into the furnace of fire", and that he will pronounce the condemnation: "Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire!"'

Catechism of the Catholic Church - IntraText

From Thomas Aquinas:

"And since a place is assigned to souls in keeping with their reward or punishment, as soon as the soul is set free from the body it is either plunged into hell or soars to heaven..."

St. Thomas Aquinas: Summa Theologica - Christian Classics Ethereal Library

From the Bible:

""But as for the cowardly, the faithless, the detestable, as for murderers, the sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars, their portion will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur, which is the second death.” Revelation 21:8

20 Top Bible Verses About Hell - Scripture Quotes

Hell houses are a thing this time of year:

Evangelical Hell Houses Are Waking Nightmares

There are the classic examples already brought up of Dante's Inferno and the various art pieces depicting people suffering in hell.

One way or another, it would seem that more than 1% of mainstream Christianity depicts hell as a place where suffering occurs due to the behavior of a person. Various descriptors of these people exist: wicked, unrepentant, evil, cursed "bad." Contrast with the descriptors for the heaven bound: repentant, blessed, forgiven, "good." "Good people go to heaven and bad people go to hell" is a simplistic way of describing the theology, but it does seem to follow from the way that (some) Christians very publicly proselytize about the threat of eternal punishment.

That's a non-sequitur. It does not follow, from the suffering of hell being the absence of God, that you love God only to avoid some punishment.

But it does follow that if a person loves god only to escape suffering, then they love god only to escape punishment.

 

[Guitar's Cry]

The first 2 ones. Remember you just can't find Christians who fit them. You have to check if there are Christians, who don't fit them.

So in order for it to be sound, every Christian must agree? That may be true if I made that claim.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

So in order for it to be sound, every Christian must agree? That may be true if I made that claim.

Okay, but then it is not relevant to Christians, but only some.

 

[Guitar's Cry]

Okay, but then it is not relevant to Christians, but only some.

Absolutely!

 

[Muffled]

Well, you could argue that God sending prophets to the Jews had no effect, so why do it?
I would say that it DID have an effect, up to a point.
John the Baptist was beheaded, but he is not part of a trinity or "was sacrificed & died for our sins" .
It's all very fishy..


Yes, I know that's what you believe..
..but you haven't yet told us why this "sacrifice" didn't happen earlier to save more people.

I believe he is not part of the Trinity and does not take away sins because He is not God in the flesh.

I believe it was not yet the "fulness" of time which means that the means for salvation through Islam was no longer sufficient to get people into the Kingdom of God in time for eternal life.

 

[Muffled]

I don't say that someone needs to be a Christian to be saved. Some people just remain innocent from birth till death imo and God might decide that others deserve God's mercy as much as any Christian.

I believe the Bible says there are none who are innocent. The standard is perfection and none achieve it this side of Heaven.

 

[Muffled]

I don't say that only Christians will be saved and I don't say that God condemns everyone who has not heard and believed the gospel,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, and the Bible does not say that.

I believe Jesus stated that everyone already stood condemned. John 3:18.

 

[Brian2]

I believe the Bible says there are none who are innocent. The standard is perfection and none achieve it this side of Heaven.

A baby who lives a short life remains innocent and some who have mental problems might also be in that category.

 

[Brian2]

I believe Jesus stated that everyone already stood condemned. John 3:18.

We all sin and so are all guilty and under condemnation, but Jesus can have mercy on anyone at the judgement. (see Matt 25:31-46)
When I say we all sin that means that those who can sin have probably sinned.

 

[Brian2]

This is just evidence that a story changed people's lives. No evidence that the story itself is true. It can be a placebo effect.


That's right - "in the story". Another story tells that this story is not correct because it was distorted by humans (inspired word of God) and God was so loving that he sent his angel to reveal the correct text (literally word of God) to a prophet. Do you believe in Quran?

I don't believe that the Quran is the Word of God.
Muhammad is a false prophet and if an angel appeared to him it was Satan or another demon.
This is the Biblical teaching.
Jesus is the Way, the Truth, the Life, nobody can come to the Father but through Him.

 

[Brian2]

As noted, I find this supposed system to be immoral. Which is where we started.

So Jesus is sent by God to turn the Jews from the wrong path they were on and they kill Him and you think that this is immoral. Who was immoral in your opinion?
If God then accepts this murder as a sacrifice for humanity's sin by Jesus, who is then being immoral?

 

[PearlSeeker]

I don't believe that the Quran is the Word of God.
Muhammad is a false prophet and if an angel appeared to him it was Satan or another demon.
This is the Biblical teaching.
Jesus is the Way, the Truth, the Life, nobody can come to the Father but through Him.

You may believe so but why? Different writings are believed to be of divine origin/inspired. Who is to be the judge what is the Word of God?

 

[Aupmanyav]

..but you haven't yet told us why this "sacrifice" didn't happen earlier to save more people.

Yeah, the ghost could have breathed into the womb of Eve. That would have given the option of being saved for the whole humanity. Was she a virgin after the garden/apple incident? Bible does not mention that. Probably that is why the Ghost did not do it. He has a preference for virgins.

I believe the Bible says there are none who are innocent. The standard is perfection and none achieve it this side of Heaven.

Perfection has not been achieved even by God. God formed Adam in his own likeness, and Adam failed even in his first test. Later, he had to flush down nearly all humans in the drain. but still we are not perfect.

 

[Brian2]

You may believe so but why? Different writings are believed to be of divine origin/inspired. Who is to be the judge what is the Word of God?

We all get to judge which is true and which is not. The New Testament agrees with the OT prophecies about the Messiah, the Jews, the New Covenant, Jesus dying and rising again etc etc.
Muhammad disargrees with the New and Old Testaments and denies the New Testament gospel message. Muhammad fits the description of a false prophet.

 

[Aupmanyav]

What Mohammad is for Christians, Jesus is the same for Jews.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

What Mohammad is for Christians, Jesus is the same for Jews.

And for all 3 as Muslin, Christians and Jews for other religions. But that is not relevant, because all religion is theism. I define the meaning of religion and then my definition becomes an objective fact like gravity.

 

[PearlSeeker]

We all get to judge which is true and which is not. The New Testament agrees with the OT prophecies about the Messiah, the Jews, the New Covenant, Jesus dying and rising again etc etc.
Muhammad disargrees with the New and Old Testaments and denies the New Testament gospel message. Muhammad fits the description of a false prophet.

Jews disagree... Religions deny each other. So what? What makes one true and others not?

So to you the Bible is true because the Bible says so? And others are not true because the Bible says who denies it is false? This is circular reasoning fallacy.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

Jews disagree... Religions deny each other. So what? What makes one true and others not?

So to you the Bible is true because the Bible says so? And others are not true because the Bible says who denies it is false? This is circular reasoning fallacy.

You are aware that there is practice is no single truth for all of the everyday world, right?

 

[muhammad_isa]

I don't believe that the Quran is the Word of God.
Muhammad is a false prophet and if an angel appeared to him it was Satan or another demon/

Was Moses, peace be with him, a false prophet too?

This is the Biblical teaching.
Jesus is the Way, the Truth, the Life, nobody can come to the Father but through Him.

It's all down to interpretation.
How could a person who rejects Jesus be rightly guided?
Rejecting prophets who have evident authority, means turning away from truth.

The disciples believed that Jesus is the Messiah. They didn't stop being Jewish.
Christianity became what it is, through a series of ecumenical councils.
"Jewish Christians" were not invited.